Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! - Sense and Sentai-ability
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Animerican14
 Posts: 963 Location: Saint Louis, MO |
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While I've definitely recognized some artifacting issues, is there really much that's "severe" besides what's gone on in the CG-dependent transformation sequences? It seems that in episode 2 or 3 in particularly, artifacting became really noticeable when the bear-thing (the teddydrum?) appears, enough so that I didn't even need to pause it. I've seen a few of the comparison pictures, and there doesn't seem to be a mention of scenes outside the transformation sequence or the Princess of the Crystal's "room" that the aforementioned sequence leads into. Then again, maybe my own complaints fall short of others' complaints due to my TV being 720p. Anyway, happy to see Sentai get addressed so forwardly like this in actual written form, rather than through off-the-cuff conversation on a podcast. For what it's worth, the Penguindrum dub doesn't completely fill the most pervasive stereotypes of Foster's dubbing in that the dub is very faithful to the subtitle script. There isn't any inappropriate pop-culture usage like you'd find the schlocky HOTD or Ghost Stories (save for that whole "panties for the win" thing, but that line was so quick and understated acting-wise that I didn't notice until Zac pointed it out), and bad slang isn't anywhere close to being really pervasive. Sure, that invites complaints of how they're sticking to the subs "way too much," they're not taking advantage of English as a spoken language, and it makes for poor mouth-flap accuracy. While valid, I personally feel that, given how substantive & symbolic Penguindrum is and the dub of the set was done on a 3 1/2 month-or-under timetable by a director with too much on his plate, I'd rather have near-religious accuracy instead of a more thorough adaptation/re-write that could hamper meanings of scenes further (though something has been translated to accident instead of incident already, and in the subtitle script no less...). While the dub acting has a mixed feel to it, I wouldn't say it was because it was for being too flat; most of the actors seem to emote properly (even if the emoting itself sometimes sounds too forced), with the only actor that I feel that I could consistently attribute flatness to being Tabuki's VA. If anything, there's probably a bit more overacting in parts, which I find to be the better extreme alternative (there's a more blurred line between right acting/over-acting than there is right acting/flat acting, I think). I guess it's just that, even when the male actors emote enough, there isn't a particularly strong "uniqueness" in their delivery. With the possible exception of the consistently well-played Sanetoshi (played by Jay Hickman?), the male roles very rarely seem to be above anything "fine", with almost all the truly impressionable moments being the awkwardly delivered lines that crop up (like from Guardiola as Kanba, who seems to let his largely-competently-hidden accent slip-up at inappropriate times and become warbly). The females are done better overall: Emily Neves (Ringo) and Monica Rial (Himari) get their parts down-pat fairly quickly, and Maggie Flecknoe is actually kind of perfect for what she's done of Masako so far. tl;dr: The dub's listenable and passable (and faithful to boot) enough for those who aren't extremely demanding of their dubs; if you're not counting on a dub that competes with upper-tier FUNI dubs or Animaze's dubs of the early-mid 2000s, I think you'll be okay. (It's far better than what eventually became of Guin Saga.) And I'm actually looking very forward to the next volume by Sentai, as the later episodes on the present set (especially 9 & 12) featured rather impressive performances. A different sub-topic: Sentai has at least started to dip its toes into social media... they revived their twitter account into something actually alive and kicking within the past couple months, and they're maintaining an equatable presence on their Facebook page. They're not ready for answering any tough questions just yet; they're only willing to reciprocate critique-free praise, it seems. Maybe this greater social media presence is the start of something, at least?I hope one day soon, we'll be able to get a clearer picture of Sentai's situation, because it's sad to think that they might not actually care about the work they're releasing... |
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Panzer Vor
 Posts: 648 |
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Too bad that it's not standard operating procedure for Sentai Filmworks to outsource to California, even if it'd yield a superior product to their usual half-arsed in-house efforts. |
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enurtsol
 Posts: 14761 |
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Fans and dubbing staffs worrying about lip-flaps? That should be much lower in priority as it is in Japan where they don't even complain about it.
Alternate ending? I don't think Western editors have that much power over J-creators.
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Animerican14
Posts: 963 Location: Saint Louis, MO |
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While that's true of of mouth flaps in many anime in their original form, it hasn't been the case for most anime dubs I've seen-- people here more or less seemed to get it down to a science, which makes it seem a bit off-putting to see such looseness with a modern dub. Being a big perfectionist at heart, it smells a bit like unprofessionalism to me! There's also the case where the mouth flaps are animated with Japanese syntax in mind, so they're animated at least in accordance with the Japanese dialogue, while with (apparently) many of Sentai dubs, there's not enough restructuring of the dialogue as spoken in English going on to make the voice acting both match the mouth flaps and sound natural. And of course, there's how most of us are gaijin that more often look at the subtitles then the characters' mouths when they talk. Yeah, there are bigger fish to fry-- why, mis-matched mouth-flapping is more forgivable if the dialogue is more natural-sounding-- but it nonetheless docks a point or two from the overall quality for me. |
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samuelp
Industry Insider
Posts: 2231 Location: San Antonio, USA |
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I believe he meant to use the word "monolithic"... here. |
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tuxedocat
 Posts: 2183 |
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@ Brian Hanson
Being a person who has worked at two different publishing companies, I can say with all honesty that I have never, ever, seen an editor censor an author. If any censorship happened it was at the direction of the publisher or the company's legal team, not the editors. I'm a bit put off by last week's Answerfan's question that insinuates that editors make these decisions. In fact, the question seemed specifically constructed to place editors in the role of villains who threaten free speech and kill kittens. I'm surprised you even got one letter that took the side of the editors, since you did such a thorough job priming your audience with a leading question. This is not the way editors work. at all. Editors are employees. They work long hours for their pay. They don't make censorship decisions. This was like blaming the line-cook at a Chick-fil-A for the political bias of the company's owner. ______________________________________________________________ And, um, don't you, as a columnist, have an editor named Zac? (I doubt he censors you....  )
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CrownKlown
 Posts: 1762 |
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I honestly have no complaint with Sentai other than where is my Crawling Chaos Nyarko. I dont watch dub, and funimation dubs are at least as bad as anything Sentai puts out. I like Vic M. but when you recycle the same five actors for everything you put out, well is it bad, its not good. As far as video quality, I love anime, but its animation, I dont need it to be perfect, or anywhere near as sharp as I expect a live action flick to be.
Hey at least Sentai releases the stuff they license, it took years to get Index, and now I fear I might be long gone before High School DxD every graces our shores. I appreciate that Funi license stuff like High School and War on Geminar, but honestly Id rather Sentai get most things so I can be assured that I will see the releases sometime in my lifetime. |
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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Coinsidering the state of the economy world wide, let alone a small niche market like anime, the fact that Sentai/ADV still exists is in itself remarkable, but this is nothing new for them as I can remember the whailings and gnashing of teeth for a few of their dubs back when they were just known as ADV, so no change here then.
On the topic of not finishing anime stories; If the story was an original manga, or light novel then really the anime is just another way of promoting those and if they are still running, no anime can properly "end" it before that. Basically if a studio is not continuing a series to its conclusion, that's telling you to go on and read the manga, or light novels to their finish as the studios have done all they are commissioned to do. Secondly when one sees prequels and sequels and reboots more than fresh original stories, that's flagging the underlying fact that there just isn't any and the studios and distributors are digging into their back cataologue looking for the video equivalent of "Best of" music albums like black vinyl suffered with when they started their decline. |
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dragonrider_cody
Posts: 2541 |
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I generally try to avoid dub quality discussions, as it's entirely subjective. Personally, I've really been enjoying the dub for Penguindrum. The only issue I had initially was with Illich Gardiola's as he seemed a bit miscast. However, he quickly grew on me in the role and I don't mind him. He even gives in some very strong performances in subsequent episodes. Monica Rial and Blake Shepherd are both excellent in their roles and most of the supporting cast is pretty strong. What really bothers me is to see so many people complaining about "apparent issues" that have never listened to it.
Personally, I would take most of Sentai's dubs anyday over Funimations. They seem to take the dart board approach to casting, or just give no thought to it at all. The only decent dub I've heard come out of them recently was Shiki, and even that had some embarrasingly bad moments. I was a bit annoyed that a very dramatic moment was ruined because they couldn't take the time to research the proper pronunciation of English medical terms. There are tons of nurses, doctors, EMTs, paramedics, etc out there that they could have consulted. Tacypnea was garbled so badly that I had to pause the bluray to figure out what was said. Anyway, at least that wasn't as bad as their "dub" of My Bride is a Mermaid, which was perhaps the worst dub I've heard in the past two years. I kept expecting my ears to bleed and it was so poorly cast and performed that it drained any and all comedy out of the show. To say it was abysmal is an understatement. It takes a lot for me to switch to the Japanese track, over the English track on a first time viewing, and Funi is the most consistent on making me do so. Things seem to have gotten a lot worse since the move to boxsets (for everyone.) I also find it a bit amusing to hear praise for Bang Zoom, since a few months ago, all I saw was people bashing them for their dubs of Fate/Stay Night UBW and the Mahoromatic OVA. I guess people have short memories...lol As for Stephen Foster, like any director, he has his bad moments. Guin Saga was mostly solid, but had about 10 minutes that were truly terrible (though I think I would take that over someone like My Bride is a Mermaid, which was like a never ending Guin singing segment.) I personally really enjoyed High School of the Dead and had no problem with the rewrites. The fact that Sentai even went back and redubbed several lines after some posters complained on Anime Network about the more extensive rewrites originally in the series says a lot ot me. Foster has also really turned out some quality work over the years, both at Seraphim and ADV before them. His dubs of 5cm and Le Chevalier Deon are nearly universally praised, and he received a lost of positive feedback on Canaan. However, Foster is far from the only director at Seraphim, and he's not even directing the majority of their shows anymore. Christoper Ayres is directing for them full time, and has done several series including Night Raid 1931. Janice Williams has directed several titles as well, including Ghost Hound. Kyle Jones is also back and directing a few titles, as well as Charles Campbell. As time as gone on, Foster has been directing a smaller percentage of their titles; a trend that seems to be continuing. Matt Greenfield also directs the occasional title as well, and did a pretty good job on Infinite Stratos, despite have a pretty weak title to work with. I do agree that Sentai could perhaps slow down a bit and allow Seraphim to spend a bit more time working on their dubs. There was definitely a notable drop in quality when Funimation and Sentai went from dubbing 3-4 episodes over the course of a few months to dubbing 13-26 in the same period. Part of that is going to be unavoidable, as the decrease in time has also come with decreases in staff and per unit revenue. They also have a ton of material to work through, even though they still release a lot of titles without dubs. As for the 1080i issue, that's another thing I would appreciate Sentai working a bit more on. There is nothing they can do about being provided inferior masters to the Japanese releases, but they could find ways to work with them better. Considering I see a lot of complaints about artifacting and issues with 1080i releases, see reviews of virtually any BBC bluray, Funi's 1080i series that were badly upconverted to 1080p, and MB's 1080i release of Moribito, it appears to be a problem that a lot of publishers struggle with. Anyway, long post rant off. Thank you. |
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samuelp
Industry Insider
Posts: 2231 Location: San Antonio, USA |
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I think a lot of the issues with 1080i masters has to do with HDCAM-SR vs. HDCAM...
It's true that HDCAM can do 23.976 1080p, but usually the bluray masters in Japan are HDCAM-SR, and when dubbed to a normal HDCAM get telecined to 1080i... It's of course possible to take a 1080i source which was original 23.976p and inverse telecine it, but to be honest outside of myself there's very few in the industry who has any idea how to handle that... |
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SnaphappyFMA
Posts: 216 Location: California |
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I don't read a lot of talk about production companies and was wondering if I was the only one who thought Sentai's subs were off.
First, I bought the Gintama movie and puzzled over some of the subtitled lines. When someone with one year of college-level Japanese can catch mistakes in subs, you know there's a problem...
Then I bought both seasons of Hakuouki. The subs are tolerable, though still with mistakes, but when I accidentally pushed "English Language" and heard the dub for the first time I nearly broke my computer pushing buttons trying to turn it off and get back to the subtitle setting. The dub is just bad, truly bad. I'm sure the voice actors were doing their best, but... OMG. I almost wish there was a "Native with No Subs" option where I could just watch it in Japanese without the subs. For a series like Hakuouki that I rewatch frequently, I pretty much remember what they're saying anyway. 
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dragonrider_cody
Posts: 2541 |
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There is. You select the Japanese language track and turn the subs off. Pretty simple. So far, only the Rurouni Kenshin Kyoto Arc OVA bluray will not be able to do that, as Aniplex required Sentai to lock the subtitle track to the Japanese audio track. Of course, I fully expect Aniplex to require it on more future Sentai releases, as until Rurouni Kenshin, Sentai was the only studio that had not locked any of their bluray subtitle tracks. At least they were up front about it, unlike some of the other companies. |
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Kakugo
Posts: 163 |
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I know back on the US end there's a lot more 1080i HDCAM vs HDCAM-SR (here the former is a format used for HDTV broadcast more than archival purposes), but I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone would even make a 1080i dub from a 1080p master unless it was specifically requested that way. And, for the record, 1080p is almost always going to look better than 1080i at the same bitrate, due to a combination of fewer frames per second and no bandwidth being wasted on mis-matched fields. 1080p is much easier to compress, mathematically speaking, and it always makes me shake my head a little when I see a 1080i disc without any "real" 30fps content making that a necessity. |
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dragonrider_cody
Posts: 2541 |
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The masters Sentai was supplied with were likely 1080i masters. They generally don't upscale masters and leave them as is, so I doubt they would intentionally downgrade video. As has been mentioned previously, all the titles this has occurred with have been from the same licensors, while their 1080p titles have generally been from different companies. 1080i actually appears to be a more difficult format to work with and compress. This is most likely just King Records, and others, way of helping prevent the reverse import issue. I suppose its better than only allowing the English track on the Bluray. |
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agila61
 Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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What comes to my mind here is Funimation's well known problems in the digital sphere ~ slow web site, problems with streaming from their site, the recent problems they had with their Roku channel (I don't know whether they've fixed that or not), and the problems in running their Android app on some Android devices. That mostly seems to come from Funimation outsourcing all of that stuff rather than building their technical capacities in house, as with Hulu or Crunchyroll. The Sentai family sidesteps that in part by splitting up their home video and digital distribution, with TheAnimeNetwork running their streaming site primarily as a support service for their cable Video On Demand service, and through being less ambitious ~ they don't HAVE a Roku channel or an Android app, so cannot experience the troubles that Funimation seems to have had in getting competent execution from the people to which they outsource that work. |
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