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LavenderMintRose



Joined: 30 Nov 2012
Posts: 168
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:17 pm Reply with quote
I was one of the people on social media who was "berating" them for this new con (initials A.S.). Honestly, I have no problems with it after hearing this. If only the FAQ on the Otakon Vegas site had given information closer to what's on this podcast, I and others probably wouldn't have had problems in the first place.

It sounds really amazing, and now I'm trying to see if I can go. This really does sound great.

I also apologize for being one of those people forming the lines-before-the-lines for autographs on Friday mornings for the past 2 years. I promise I won't be doing that this year Anime smile;

Still really looking forward to regular Otakon this year, also~
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:39 pm Reply with quote
It's nice and chilly in Vegas during winter, it was even quite cool in March last time I went, so the change of temperature and compared to blistering summer cons is great. I can't exactly imagine Vegas is that convenient to get to for the very close surrounding areas, those who drive across the desert and those who fly in to McCarran. Even then, you've gotta rent a car or take a bus to get around more places, their little monorail thing isn't going to help anyone unless they're on the strip. It's a very good city for adult conventions (dentists, CPAs, construction, etc.), but it might be quite inaccessible to the youth unless they're local. Who knows, I'm not a logistics expert on Vegas and its transportation infrastructure. Sounds like a great time for anyone over 21 with a good load of cash to burn, not so hot for the others. He mentioned cheerleader and gymnastics, but those are usually either group travel events or the parents travel with them. Nerd conventions aren't school or sports club oriented, and parents don't come [normally] to the convention with their children, they'd be on their own. At the very least, those events will have some sort of chaperone or adult in charge.

18, 19, and 20 year old college students still can't drink, and thus cannot gamble on the alcohol-served casino floors. The casinos want you drunk and making poor decisions with your money, but they're also strict about not breaking federal laws.

Given that it's Vegas, I wonder if they'll obtain a license of sorts that allows them to have pachinko parlors at the con.
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unitmikey



Joined: 15 Feb 2013
Posts: 286
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:57 am Reply with quote
I will honestly say that every time i have been to Vegas has been when i was under 21 and I've always thought it was awesome. Because at least they have roller-coasters.
If I had the means to go to either of the otakons i would definitively go.
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:13 am Reply with quote
It wasn't just "one" bad experience in an autograph line. If it was one, I wouldn't have bitched so often. It was every autograph line I got in at Otakon last year, which was at least three. You could show up a half hour, an hour early to the session and still not get one. One of the bums only signed 100 autographs.

The staff misled me and others about the Aya Hirano session especially (directing me in the wrong direction to the end of the line and then saying everyone past a certain point would for sure not get an autograph, only to go back on that after I left). I stood (and sat) in line for the Hirano concert for a couple of hours. The people who came early to the concert should be the first ones allowed in line for autographs, it shouldn't just be some free-for-all shoving contest. Because of incompetent staff I was led to near the end of the line for autographs.

Big industry panels would happen during signings or just after so that if you were AT the panel of a guest chances are you were already too late to get their autograph AFTER the panel, as it was at a different place where people already lined up. So really you had to choose between their panel or their autograph.

Another problem is having panels spaced out so far that it takes, factoring in the crowd, a good fifteen minutes to get from one side of the convention center to the other, and that then limits the number of panels you can get to. This is especially problematic since the autograph sessions are on the far side of the building.

I appreciated the response, but it isn't my business to offer a better way of doing things. It isn't my job. It's theirs. A "let's see YOU do better" kind of answer is meaningless. However, I will now stop complaining about the subject, as I've made my point amply. Until the next Otakon.
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Maidenoftheredhand



Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 2563
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:04 pm Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
It wasn't just "one" bad experience in an autograph line. If it was one, I wouldn't have bitched so often. It was every autograph line I got in at Otakon last year, which was at least three. You could show up a half hour, an hour early to the session and still not get one. One of the bums only signed 100 autographs.


But the issue is you are only one person. Okay so you had a bad experience in multiple autograph lines that is still a small percentage of Otakon's attendance.

I've gone to Otakon 6 times have gotten multiple autographs (2 last year) and never had a bad experience.

Unfortunately bad experiences happen to everyone but it doesn't mean that Otakon runs things poorly, things happen.

As for the bum who only signed 100 autographs, that was due to his management, not Otakon.

Yeah I wish I could always be guaranteed an autograph at Otakon and it's a nerve wracking experience but hey a lot of conventions they sign even less, you have to wait much longer (sometimes outside) and you even have to pay for the autograph.

Quote:
The people who came early to the concert should be the first ones allowed in line for autographs


But why is that, what does being in the concert first mean you should get an autograph first as well? That makes no sense (speaking as someone who didn't get Aya's autograph either and who was definitely near the front of the concert line).

Quote:

Big industry panels would happen during signings or just after so that if you were AT the panel of a guest chances are you were already too late to get their autograph AFTER the panel, as it was at a different place where people already lined up. So really you had to choose between their panel or their autograph.


This is something I admittedly also dislike, but usually (not always) there are two autograph sessions and two panel sessions you can do one on one day and the other the next.

Although the Otakon staff has said they are thinking of changing this to give more time after panels before autograph starts, so they do listen to feedback.

Quote:
Another problem is having panels spaced out so far that it takes, factoring in the crowd, a good fifteen minutes to get from one side of the convention center to the other, and that then limits the number of panels you can get to. This is especially problematic since the autograph sessions are on the far side of the building.


Location of panels and autograph session have to do with a lot of factors.

I am sure Otakon is not going hey lets have this panel at the other side of the convention just so people have to rush to the autograph line. There is always a reason for the location they choose.

A panel location is usually chosen because of room size and estimated audience attendance. Remember there are many different panels going on at the same time. The panel rooms that might be closer to the autograph space might just be a better fit size wise for another panel.

As for the autograph space, as crazy as it might seem it probably is the best location for line control because you can have multiple autograph lines forming at the same time.

Anyways my advice for getting an autograph (and there is never a guarantee) is to get as much information ahead of time from the Otakon boards and at the convention from the staff (and not just one staff member, confirm with more than one) and possibly with other fans. Trust me if you just talk with others, they are willing to help you out. And this is good for two reasons, the information and meeting people.
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:15 pm Reply with quote
Maidenoftheredhand wrote:
But why is that, what does being in the concert first mean you should get an autograph first as well? That makes no sense (speaking as someone who didn't get Aya's autograph either and who was definitely near the front of the concert line).


Of course it makes sense. If you got there early and stood in line for two hours, you should be in a better position to get an autograph, because you were earlier in line than the others. Instead, they just go, "Yeah, concert's over. Every man for themselves!"

And if somebody's only going to sign 100 autographs, that person's manager better tell Otakon staff ahead of time, or not get invited back again. Screwing over the fans is never a good idea.

It doesn't help that people in line have conversations with the people signing. Somebody should be standing by with a cattle prod, moving things along. I didn't stand four hours in a line to hear some jackhole form a bond with the voice of Isaac from Baccano. I want the man's' autograph so I can get back to buying obscure merchandise in the dealer's room. Say you like their work, slip them a little tongue, and move on. If people were the least bit considerate, I'd have gotten some autographs.
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Echo_City



Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Posts: 1236
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:40 pm Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
Maidenoftheredhand wrote:
But why is that, what does being in the concert first mean you should get an autograph first as well? That makes no sense (speaking as someone who didn't get Aya's autograph either and who was definitely near the front of the concert line).


Of course it makes sense. If you got there early and stood in line for two hours, you should be in a better position to get an autograph, because you were earlier in line than the others. Instead, they just go, "Yeah, concert's over. Every man for themselves!"

+1. I remember in 2011 when Otakon scheduled the Sunrise panel & the Bandai panel back-to-back, with no room clear. Staff aplenty assured me that there'd be no room clear. Yet when Sunrise ended, Otakon tried to enact a room clear. Luckily enough people from the Sunrise panel left of their own volition (didn't know what they would be missing, I guess) & Bandai itself intervened to prevent that Otakon stupidity, but my group & I weren't going to be moved because of Otakon's incompetence. Otakon has a tragic history of not thinking their logistics through, and of having their most important staff, that which interacts with the public, either benighted or filled with straight-faced liars.
penguintruth wrote:

And if somebody's only going to sign 100 autographs, that person's manager better tell Otakon staff ahead of time, or not get invited back again. Screwing over the fans is never a good idea.
Totally agree.
penguintruth wrote:
It doesn't help that people in line have conversations with the people signing. Somebody should be standing by with a cattle prod, moving things along. I didn't stand four hours in a line to hear some jackhole form a bond with the voice of Isaac from Baccano. I want the man's' autograph so I can get back to buying obscure merchandise in the dealer's room. Say you like their work, slip them a little tongue, and move on. If people were the least bit considerate, I'd have gotten some autographs.
I wholeheartedly agree with this, well, except for the part about slipping J. Michael Tatum (voice of Issac) a little tongue. I think he's a great actor, but I'm not that much of a fan. Razz

Aside from that, I agree. It's the autograph line, not the "tell your life story and become BFFs 4 evah with the guest" line. Though I wouldn't trust an Otakon staffer with a cattle prod, if you know what I mean.
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Zac
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Joined: 05 Jan 2002
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:52 pm Reply with quote
Some of you guys are forgetting the fact that it isn't the convention's responsibility to make it so there's absolutely no overlap in programming for you personally.

You don't get to see absolutely everything you want nor will you get everything you want at any convention. If you're complaining about event overlap interfering with your plans, don't ever go to any convention bigger than Otakon - most cons the smart thing to do is pick 3 things you really want to see that don't overlap and focus on those rather than getting bent out of shape that you can't be in 2 places at once.

That said a couple of you seem really hostile and angry toward the convention - if it's that terrible and incompetent to you, why bother attending? There are countless anime cons on the east coast.
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Maidenoftheredhand



Joined: 21 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:03 pm Reply with quote
Echo_City wrote:

Of course it makes sense. If you got there early and stood in line for two hours, you should be in a better position to get an autograph, because you were earlier in line than the others. Instead, they just go, "Yeah, concert's over. Every man for themselves!"


It makes absolutely no sense. Going to the concert and getting an autograph are not one and the same thing.

I am not saying how Otakon handled the autograph line for the Aya Hirano autograph line was the best either, but you can partially blame that on Aya's staff who wanted to do things differently from Otakon's usual method (which would of been having an autograph session completely separate from the contest and maybe more than one).

You have to understand though that sometimes Otakon has to do what the Japanese staff/management wants. It was a new company they worked with who decided the autograph should be handled the same way they do things in Japan.

I think the staff did handle her autograph session poorly but it is not usually how autographs are handled at Otakon and it was new for everyone. In the end the Japanese staff realized that they probably should have done things in Otakon's usual way, but it was a learning experience for both parties involved.

Quote:
+1. I remember in 2011 when Otakon scheduled the Sunrise panel & the Bandai panel back-to-back, with no room clear. Staff aplenty assured me that there'd be no room clear. Yet when Sunrise ended, Otakon tried to enact a room clear. Luckily enough people from the Sunrise panel left of their own volition (didn't know what they would be missing, I guess) & Bandai itself intervened to prevent that Otakon stupidity, but my group & I weren't going to be moved because of Otakon's incompetence. Otakon has a tragic history of not thinking their logistics through, and of having their most important staff, that which interacts with the public, either benighted or filled with straight-faced liars.


There is going to unfortunately be some staff who might give the wrong information. I guess that does reflect badly on Otakon, except most "staff members "are basically volunteers. This is not a full time job and you are going to get different standards. Otakon asks for feedback when a staff treats someone badly or gives wrong information.

But people make mistakes and that is why if you are smart you don't just ask one person you can confirm with more than one.

As for room clears sometimes things do change at the last minute but usually rooms do not clear unless it is stated specifically they will in the schedule (and usually this is just for 18+ panels)

penguintruth wrote:

And if somebody's only going to sign 100 autographs, that person's manager better tell Otakon staff ahead of time, or not get invited back again. Screwing over the fans is never a good idea.


Quote:
Totally agree.


Except they did tell staff ahead of time and Otakon spread this on their message boards. I knew it days ahead of time on Otakon's boards and I and other people spread this information to other people wanting Tetsuya Kakihara's autograph. You see what happens when you get information ahead of time, you are prepared.



penguintruth wrote:
It doesn't help that people in line have conversations with the people signing. Somebody should be standing by with a cattle prod, moving things along. I didn't stand four hours in a line to hear some jackhole form a bond with the voice of Isaac from Baccano. I want the man's' autograph so I can get back to buying obscure merchandise in the dealer's room. Say you like their work, slip them a little tongue, and move on. If people were the least bit considerate, I'd have gotten some autographs.



Quote:
Aside from that, I agree. It's the autograph line, not the "tell your life story and become BFFs 4 evah with the guest" line. Though I wouldn't trust an Otakon staffer with a cattle prod, if you know what I mean.


In every line I was in, it was sign quickly and get out. I didn't see anyone having long conversations. But hey in the end its up to the guest how much they want to sign and if they want to talk more to the fans.

Different guests handle things differently. Some will only sign the number of autographs they agree on and some will sign until everyone gets one, you never know. But they aren't machines.
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penguintruth



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:36 pm Reply with quote
Maidenoftheredhand wrote:
It makes absolutely no sense. Going to the concert and getting an autograph are not one and the same thing. .


I don't know how I can make this any simpler for you.

When the autograph session is attached to the concert, when the concert goes right into the session, then yes, the autograph session is PART of the concert and therefore whoever gets to the concert first should get first dibs on an autograph. They were the ones who took out time from their schedule and got there early, stood in line out of their love for Aya Hirano, refrained from bathroom breaks, missed breakfast in most cases, to be early in line to see her. Since the session was going on in the concert area, those people should get priority.

And this isn't about getting everything I want out of a convention. You're really making me out to be a naive rube. This is about fairness not just for myself, but for others. There was a litany of complaints from every line I was standing in about how poorly the staff handled things. Staff pointing to the wrong ends of line, redirecting people in the wrong manner, cutting off a line and then retracting it, all sorts of nonsense.

Frankly, if a guest's staff can't coordinate properly with Otakon staff and its scheduling, they should not be invited back. You don't invite people who screw over their fans. I'm not concerned over whether it was them personally or the people who represent them. They chose to hire the people who represent them, so it is their responsibility, just like it's Otakon's responsibility to see that things are orderly, and yes, fair.

Zac, I did choose just a few "must have" things. I recieved zero of these things despite scheduling my entire con experience around them. I realize these things still happen, but they could have very easily not.

It has nothing to do with being angry or hostile towards the convention, it's about desiring improvements where they are needed. Let's not pretend things are perfect just so we don't hurt feelings.
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littlegreenwolf



Joined: 10 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:56 pm Reply with quote
I don't see why you think you're owed anything, or even why the convention should never even think about inviting a person back because they "snubbed" their fans. If you're ever worked a con before, you'd know that for the most part conventions are greatful to get just about any of the guest they get.

And outside of conventions I'm trying to think of when I've gone to a concert and have actually gotten an autograph. Let's see, house of blues venues or larger, this has probably happened maybe three times out of going to a concert at least twice a month for the last 10 years. (oh central FL, how great you were for venue selections).

Musicians/celebrities don't owe you anything, no matter how much in your head you've built up yourself as worthy of their attention based on your worship.

You want a disorganized con, you should try NYCC. Yeeep. I am soooo very lucky I managed to met and get Moyocco Anno's autograph, and only because someone with Vertical realized that none of the real fans who showed up at her panel had gotten the autograph tickets. Sadly couldn't get Anne Rice's, and I don't want to even try recalling how long I stood in that line for nothing. In the end it's just a gamble you play with at conventions.
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Maidenoftheredhand



Joined: 21 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:38 pm Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:

When the autograph session is attached to the concert, when the concert goes right into the session, then yes, the autograph session is PART of the concert and therefore whoever gets to the concert first should get first dibs on an autograph. They were the ones who took out time from their schedule and got there early, stood in line out of their love for Aya Hirano, refrained from bathroom breaks, missed breakfast in most cases, to be early in line to see her. Since the session was going on in the concert area, those people should get priority.


Sorry but this sounds hilariously entitled. I stood in line early for Aya Hirano's concert too, you know why because I wanted to make sure I saw Aya's Hirano's concert. That is what you were lining up for, her concert not the autograph.

I didn't see anywhere in the brochure that it said if you are the first in line at the concert it also means you will get an autograph.

The autograph wasn't attached to the concert, it was after the concert in the same room.
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penguintruth



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:42 pm Reply with quote
littlegreenwolf wrote:
Musicians/celebrities don't owe you anything, no matter how much in your head you've built up yourself as worthy of their attention based on your worship.


This has nothing to do with what I was saying. Don't confuse the subject.

Wow, conventions are happy to get guests? No kidding. But when the guests treat their fans like garbage, it makes the con look bad, so no, they shouldn't be invited back. It has nothing to do with entitlement, it has to do with civility. If you think a convention should keep dropping trou for a guest who shuns his fans, you're part of the problem.

Maidenoftheredhand wrote:
The autograph wasn't attached to the concert, it was after the concert in the same room.


Therefore it is attached to the concert. If they wanted it to be seperate, they should have told everybody to leave the area and form a different line. They formed the line right where we were sitting, only they didn't do it by row, which make it unorganized, and the staff just pointed in random directions instead of lining people up in an organized fashion.

Competence is not an entitlement, it's a prerequisite.
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TokyoGetter



Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 416
Location: CA. You can tell by the low moral standards.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:47 pm Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
Competence is not an entitlement, it's a prerequisite.


... whenever you want to throw your own convention you just let us all know, OK?
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:24 pm Reply with quote
TokyoGetter wrote:
penguintruth wrote:
Competence is not an entitlement, it's a prerequisite.


... whenever you want to throw your own convention you just let us all know, OK?


"Let's see YOU do better!" Rolling Eyes
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