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ANNCast - The Last Days of Bandai Entertainment USA


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AbZeroNow



Joined: 14 Jan 2013
Posts: 519
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:24 pm Reply with quote
@ ZeetherKid77.

Thanks for that survey link. I took it and I hope that Bandai Visual understands that most of us cannot afford $200 to $400 boxsets and that the American anime buying crowd tends to dislike $50 to $70 2 to 4 episode singles.
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DomonX2



Joined: 14 Sep 2012
Posts: 232
Location: Neo Toronto, Neo Canada
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:03 pm Reply with quote
@PurpleWarrior13 The English "dub" of Unicorn is produced by Sunrise, so why wouldn't it get produced as of now? Second, the English audio is not made for the Americans. It is made for everywhere, including Japan, Taiwan, Spain, etc, etc but none of those 3 countries have any interest in English audio, regardless whether or not the co original audio is English. From what I've read on Amazon jp, they(the Japanese) don't seem to be fond of the English audio at all. They hate it. America are more LIKELY to buy FOR the English audio, but it is not FOR Americans or English speakers, ONLY.
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TopGunman



Joined: 21 Dec 2010
Posts: 498
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:51 pm Reply with quote
Thank you dub-haters. *sarcasm*
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:53 pm Reply with quote
DomonX2 wrote:
... Second, the English audio is not made for the Americans. It is made for everywhere, including Japan, Taiwan, Spain, etc, etc but none of those 3 countries have any interest in English audio, regardless whether or not the co original audio is English.


I cannot parse this sentence.

This seems to be saying that the English audio is made for everywhere, including Japan, Taiwan, Spain, etc., but that those three countries have not interest in the English audio. In what sense is the English audio made for them, then?

Or is this a typo, with the first "English audio" supposed to read "English sub"? Then it would at least parse intelligibly.
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DomonX2



Joined: 14 Sep 2012
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Location: Neo Toronto, Neo Canada
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:28 pm Reply with quote
@TopGunman I ADORE the English track if Gundam UC. Don't make me out to be some sub elitist/dub hater. The Japanese as a whole do indeed dislike the English audio. See for yourself

@Agila61 The English audio statement was no error. I meant what I said. The English version from Sunrise was intended for the world and not just the US. PurpleWarrior implied that was the reason Bandai Visual cared for them, but what I said is a fact, so that throws his thoughts out the window. Just because something isn't embraced doesn't mean it isn't intended for you.
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 8075
Location: Penguinopolis
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:45 pm Reply with quote
Wow, Rob Liefeld is like Carl Macek! That's a great parallel.

Ah, the Honneamise label. Man was the Wings of the Honneamise release expensive. It was years before I finally got it, but I love that movie so much and the release was pretty awesome. The release of the first two Patlabor movies was pretty good, too, The Gundam Unicorn release is as problematic as WoH, its price a real barrier to other people picking up the title, but I'll probably end up getting all of it. It's just going to take a while.

I actually only own a subtitle DVD of Gurren Lagann. I thought it was a good idea at the time, to release a sub-only version first for a stripped down price and features and then the bilingual release for a regular price later on. That way if people are hardcore fans who don't care about English dubs they can get it a little earlier. But I guess that kind of release doesn't work, for whatever reason. Though I'll admit, I didn't buy any of the other sub-only releases of GL, or any other GL releases at all. I only have the first nine episodes. A fine show, but not high in my priorities.

It was a real shame we never got Turn A Gundam. That is one of my favorite Gundam entries. I'm pretty sure they were only going to release it subtitled-only, though, which caused some irritation in the fandom. I bet right now they would take it sub-only over not having it at all. Who knows if we'll ever get it? If Bandai Visual releases you can bet the pricing will be quite inconvenient.

I still contend the original Mobile Suit Gundam would have done better if Cartoon Network had given it a complete run. The first run was cancelled ostensibly because of 9/11, but that's got to be a load of crap. Then it was cancelled when it re-aired for no real given reason. I realize that there are obstacles to get people to watch something form 1979 if they didn't grow up watching it, but I don't think it was marketed that well to begin with.

However, I'm glad Bandai Entertainment even bothered with Gundam for so long, considering how middling it did.

I have admit... that Endless Eight idea would have been pretty neat. Normally I wouldn't support such a thing, but let's face it, Endless Eight is a complete anomoly.

Bandai Entertainment licensed some of my favorite titles: Cowboy Bebop, Gundam, Escaflowne, Big O, and Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex (in conjunction with Manga Ent), to name a few. And I often enjoyed the English dubs, especially Animaze dubs. Despite a few gripes I had with it (mostly concerning the Zeta Gundam release), I miss it.
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:53 pm Reply with quote
DomonX2 wrote:
@Agila61 The English audio statement was no error. I meant what I said.

I asked because I couldn't make sense of what you said.

Quote:
The English version from Sunrise was intended for the world and not just the US. PurpleWarrior implied that was the reason Bandai Visual cared for them, but what I said is a fact, so that throws his thoughts out the window. Just because something isn't embraced doesn't mean it isn't intended for you.

So you are saying that the Japanese are thinking that the English audio track is a benefit for distribution in countries like Japan, Spain, and Taiwan even though it actually isn't a benefit?

Why would they think that?
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reanimator





PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:17 pm Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
reanimator wrote:
Western fans are known for having the most excitement for certain anime that they like. On the other hand, Japanese fans don't seem to clamor much as us westerners (other than standing long lines for anime pre-order releases)


What? I don't think I've seen the American fanbase get anywhere close to being as 'dedicated/excited' as what the otaku do. People complain when a boxset is 60 dollars, where as otaku will gladly pay 600 for a boxset. Then you have Comiket and other fanworks that don't really have a parallel in America.


I didn't mean as spending habit borne out of dedication, but just showing excitement like dressing up for cosplay or lining up for some voice actor's autograph session.

walw6pK4Alo wrote:
Even if the West were substance, we pay $50-80 for 12 episodes. That's what Japanese fan pays for 2. We'd need to expand the anime fanbase several times over to have any kind of economic persuasion, but still have to deal with the reality that we'll either have crippled BDs, long waits, or higher prices as DVDs begin to fade. Then there's those who might decide to only pay for their streams but forgo discs entirely. That's not exactly going to make for a strong monetary presence either, where their entire year's contribution was nearly matched by a single person buying a single disc in Japan.


That's the thing. It's frustrating that fanbase here is not willing to make economic presence. It would be nice if the West has ten times more paying fans to match Japanese counterpart the way things are right now. It's disappointing that fanbase is not growing fast as one hope to be.
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angelmcazares
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Joined: 23 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:45 pm Reply with quote
reanimator wrote:

That's the thing. It's frustrating that fanbase here is not willing to make economic presence. It would be nice if the West has ten times more paying fans to match Japanese counterpart the way things are right now. It's disappointing that fanbase is not growing fast as one hope to be.


Wouldn't it be easier if the current (R1) fanbase instead paid more for anime ($100 per 12 episodes, instead of $40)? The fanbase WILL NEVER multiply by 10 (not even by 2). To me the best way to have a bigger economic presence in the anime industry is to pay top dollar.
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3085
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:33 pm Reply with quote
angelmcazares wrote:
reanimator wrote:

That's the thing. It's frustrating that fanbase here is not willing to make economic presence. It would be nice if the West has ten times more paying fans to match Japanese counterpart the way things are right now. It's disappointing that fanbase is not growing fast as one hope to be.


Wouldn't it be easier if the current (R1) fanbase instead paid more for anime ($100 per 12 episodes, instead of $40)? The fanbase WILL NEVER multiply by 10 (not even by 2). To me the best way to have a bigger economic presence in the anime industry is to pay top dollar.


Which creates the problem that exist in Japan were you have a bunch of really similar anime because everyone is trying to attract the same group of people willing to pay hundreds of dollars to buy anime. The shows that do really well for Aniplex USA? They are the same shows that do really well ifor Aniplex Japan. You are not going to see a Cowboy Bebop or an Outlaw Star when you have to pay 200 dollars just to own the whole thing.

This goes back to what I talked about earlier. For 30-40 bucks and a well done trailer showing off all of its good point (like what happened to Sekirei) Super Robot Wars Divine Wars can do really well, but it had no chance to make any money selling for 35 bucks for 3 episodes because you had to already have been a huge fan of the GBA games to be willing to pay that.
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Animehermit



Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Posts: 963
Location: The Argama
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:00 pm Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:


I still contend the original Mobile Suit Gundam would have done better if Cartoon Network had given it a complete run. The first run was cancelled ostensibly because of 9/11, but that's got to be a load of crap. Then it was cancelled when it re-aired for no real given reason. I realize that there are obstacles to get people to watch something form 1979 if they didn't grow up watching it, but I don't think it was marketed that well to begin with.

However, I'm glad Bandai Entertainment even bothered with Gundam for so long, considering how middling it did.



Speaking as someone who was 10-11 at the time that aired. I'm not sure I would have continued watching it. Animation that old is really hard to sell to that audience, I mean kids that age don't want to watch movies from that era, let alone animation.

Then again, we ate Gundam Wing up, which inexplicably looks worse than 0079 does.
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reanimator





PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:55 pm Reply with quote
angelmcazares wrote:
reanimator wrote:

That's the thing. It's frustrating that fanbase here is not willing to make economic presence. It would be nice if the West has ten times more paying fans to match Japanese counterpart the way things are right now. It's disappointing that fanbase is not growing fast as one hope to be.


Wouldn't it be easier if the current (R1) fanbase instead paid more for anime ($100 per 12 episodes, instead of $40)? The fanbase WILL NEVER multiply by 10 (not even by 2). To me the best way to have a bigger economic presence in the anime industry is to pay top dollar.


Well, the top dollar has to increase in steady rate if the fandom doesn't grow enough to be near the Japanese fandom in terms of profit. $100 per 12 episodes is okay solution, but the profit would be still nowhere near Japanese counterpart if fanbase remains too small.

I've been thinking. Are people who complain about current R1 DVD pricing serious collectors or impulsive buyers? It seems like they're never serious about buying R1 DVD despite its relative low price.
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 9321
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:22 pm Reply with quote
Well, they either raise the price and shrink the potential pool of customers to hardcores only, or anime miraculously gains a wider audience by a factor of several times. You cannot have both, and we're already seeing the first occur.
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PurpleWarrior13



Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 1872
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:22 pm Reply with quote
Okay, I finally listened to the rest of the podcast. It's a good episode, one of my favorites up there with the Geneon interview, the Macek interview, and the one with the other dude from Bandai.

I do think many companies overestimated the market for anime 10 years ago. Just because some anime titles were popular and mainstream doesn't mean they all can be. I think it was a case of flooding the market, and when we stopped getting mainstream anime hits, the interest in anime died down. The economy certainly didn't help, but I think legal streaming sites like Hulu and Netflix helped. I know people in real life who watch anime on both of those.

For the more niche titles, Manufacture-on-Demand is your friend. It's worked very well for Warner Bros, Sony, MGM, Nickelodeon, and others. It's the reason so many movies and shows have had a chance to come to DVD here. I'm not sure how well Tokyopop did with releasing Rave Master this way (dub only didn't help, and that was not a good dub either, but I'm mostly talking about how the discs physically came out), but Sony's been able to get some of their anime catalog out this way too (prays for Cyborg 009 to come next).

Some of the "Star Blazers Mountain" stuff got a tad annoying, but I understand what Bob was trying to say.

I just took the Bandai survey (I STRONGLY recommend people taking it: http://ht.ly/i6wEI). It's clear that Bandai of Japan is still working on their game plan for the foreign markets.

@DomonX2 I'll reword what I said. Bandai of Japan still has the ENGLISH-SPEAKING market in MIND by including the English audio, even though Europe and Australia are in a different Blu-ray region than both us and Japan. Why would the English audio be of ANY benefit to ANY non-English speaker?
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:53 pm Reply with quote
angelmcazares wrote:
Wouldn't it be easier if the current (R1) fanbase instead paid more for anime ($100 per 12 episodes, instead of $40)? The fanbase WILL NEVER multiply by 10 (not even by 2).


Does it really matter for the health of the anime industry what part of growth in international license income comes from increase in number of customers in the borders of their larger market countries, what part comes from growth in numbers of customers from emerging markets, and what part comes from increased gross revenues per customer and what part comes from reduced overheads and transaction cost per sale?

Certainly there is only a relatively small collectors market who are both able and willing to pay $8/episode. That market is larger for some titles and smaller for others. There is a larger market who are both able and willing to pay the normal mainstream day and date of first release price of $50 per broadcast season or $4/episode ~ larger for some titles, smaller for others, and an even larger market both able and willing to pay $30 per broadcast season or $2.50/episode for physical media. And of course, the order of the market sizes are not the same for each ~ some titles will hold a much larger share of their $2.50/episode market as they go up to $8/episode, some will see almost all of their $2.50/episode market vanish as $8/episode.

We know that there is an even larger market, demonstrated in the 10,000's in R1 maybe over 100,000, willing to pay $8/month for "all you can eat", but suppose that is an average of following ten series a week for four weeks to give $0.20/episode, and there are millions willing to watch free ad streaming to give $0.002/episode.

There is a missing middle here, of digital download to rent and digital download to own ~ $0.25-$0.50/episode download to rent for a week in a 3-4 episode volume for $1SD/$1.50HD/$2HDX ... and $1-$2/episode download to own (with prior download to rent credited against purchase) a 3-4 episode volume for $3SD/$4HD/$5HDX. That at present would primarily be on the console markets, PSN and XBox Live, but if the Vudu, Amazon Video, GooglePlay, Nook Video etc. markets mature, it may become a more mainstream possibility. Per-volume digital downloads rather than per episode, though, saves substantially in transaction costs.

You get more out of of each customer by (1) finding the titles that can get some people to shell out big bucks for Limited Edition collectors editions, and sell them LE's, (2) getting the casual buyer sucked into buying more frequently (3) getting the streaming viewer into the mindset of buying their particular favorite; but you also get more customers by (1) making it easy to watch lots of anime at modest resolution and with streaming ads, which (2) induces some people to subscribe for higher quality, more immediate access, etc. which (3) induces some people to buy a permanent copy of their special favorites which (4) induces some people to start collecting ... and by (5) by making the whole process as widely available around the world as possible.

If along the way, there are some fandoms in some specific parts of the world, whether North America or France or wherever, that take it upon themselves to be evangelists for the industry, all the better.
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