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ANNCast - Time to Make the Doughnuts


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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 9322
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 2:03 pm Reply with quote
If CR took on the WMT anime, the ones that haven't already been subbed, that'd be a nice benefit to the infinitesimally small number of people who care. What's great about that is that they're now obligated to sub the entire thing even if they receive 150 total viewers, whereas fansubbing is an option that be dropped on a whim and those shows basically require the "want" to do it for themselves rather than for the community.

Good luck on continuing the diet, Justin. If you can have fruit, eat some fuji apples, those things must be made of pure fructose. They're sickly sweet.
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varmintx



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1196
Location: Covington, KY
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:58 pm Reply with quote
When I got my BD of Penguindrum, my first thought with regard to the "sequel" nonsense was that of a desperate, pathetic attempt at a marketing ploy by tricking people into thinking, "well, it was good enough to get a sequel, so I guess it can't be that bad." If the tiny number of collections over at blu-ray.com that the show has been added to are anything to judge by, the sales could use any boost they can get.

More than likely though, it was just Sentai being hasty and lazy again.
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 9322
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:05 pm Reply with quote
I guess you could kind of stretch something being a sequel to the split cours series like Horizon, Lagrange, and Jormungand, but those seem to be predetermined to air in halves. Anything more is ludicrous.
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Spotlesseden



Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: earth
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:15 pm Reply with quote
they made Kenshin ova to advert the live action movie.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:16 pm Reply with quote
Timeenforceranubis wrote:
Chagen46 wrote:
Yes.

That's like asking why women get to rail against misogyny but men don't get to rail against "misandry"--the former is FAR more common and ingrained into the culture than the latter (assuming the latter even exists)

Except surrounding the fujoshi/moé fan hostility, there's the bigger context of general hostility within the fandom, and I'm sorry, but, in the words of Dr. King, "An injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

You can't just declare something negligible because you think it's negligible. Just like fujoshi and people like Zac are pissed that there's so much hostility toward fujoshi (As they rightfully should be), moé fans are pissed about the hostility toward moé fans, and that's also something anyone who's against hostility in the anime community should also be pissed about.



"If you're railing against racism toward black people, why aren't you also railing against racism toward white people?" This is what you're basically arguing.

And the answer is "because that creates the illusion that somehow the two are equal in size, measure, cultural context and relevance, muddies the conversation and offers those looking to apologize or defend the nastiness aimed at fujoshi an excuse to do so." I'm not going to make the super-moe-otaku's case for them because I don't think it's even relevant to this discussion that sometimes people make fun of them for their obsession - these are largely the most catered-to and privileged class when it comes to anime fans. They dominate message forums everywhere and try their best to control the conversation. The content that gets produced now is largely aimed at pleasing them and their specific tastes. People mocking them isn't the same as that same privileged group ostracizing a smaller minority of fans that's largely composed of an already systemically and culturally oppressed class, women.

In short, when a bunch of privileged guys who get everything they want and generally control the discussion have a few rocks thrown at them, it doesn't concern me. When that group of privileged guys starts throwing rocks at a smaller minority of fans simply because for once they're actually getting what they want, it's offensive and worth speaking up about.

Also given that you operate this page: http://sheslostcontrol.net/moe/ It's a little hard to take your equivalency fallacies seriously.
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:50 pm Reply with quote
Timeenforceranubis wrote:
Except surrounding the fujoshi/moé fan hostility, there's the bigger context of general hostility within the fandom, and I'm sorry, but, in the words of Dr. King, "An injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

For the quote to apply, there has to be injustice. For there to be injustice, there has to be people in a dominant power position taking advantage of people in a subordinate power position (that's "and", not "or": both the different power positions AND the taking advantage.)

Now, while I understand the hostility encountered by moe fans, that does not mean I condone it. To fans of other types of content, it may feel like the support of moe fans for the moe content is denying us of what we'd rather have. But in reality, anime is a commercial medium, and if what we'd rather have generated more revenue, then we'd get to see more of it. No matter how many fans treat it like there is an annual anime subsidy from the Japanese government and one more moe series means one less mecha or SF or yaoi or realistic yuri or sports or rom-com or whatever ... its not really like that. If the stuff we liked generated more revenue, the industry would happily make more.

However, somebody being "wrong on the internet" does not constitute injustice. Moe fans would have to be in a subordinate power position to be in the frame for making a claim of injustice, and that's just objectively silly. As unfair as that hostility may be, it doesn't clear the hurdle for being unjust, no matter how much of a persecution complex you may cultivate on your website.

And by contrast, the power position between men and women is far from equal in most societies, including in particular Japan and the US. So hostility of male fans to some genre with a largely female fanbase quite easily can constitute injustice.
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Nocturne123



Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Posts: 268
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:00 pm Reply with quote
@Zac

While I think you make some good points, Zac, I don't really think you can put it exactly in those terms. Whether a group is privileged or not, they can still have injustices against them. Whether someone has it all or nothing at all, doesn't mean that it's ok to treat one of the other with complete and utter disrespect.

Take for example say black and white people both had something horribly bigoted or racist said about them, yet only one group was defended, or the white people were just brushed off because they are "privileged". Maybe some groups get it more frequently than others, but that doesn't mean it is right in either circumstance.

[EDIT: Please don't over-quote. -TK]
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:13 pm Reply with quote
This is only a reasonable stance if you're literally ignoring hundreds and hundreds of years of context and history and honestly think that context and history don't matter at all when it comes to things like this.

Racism is bad, yes, but all forms of racism are not equal. To think otherwise is wholeheartedly self-serving to the class in power.
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Nocturne123



Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Posts: 268
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:37 pm Reply with quote
If you go by that, then wouldn't you have to count racism from all over the world? White people aren't the only ones who had slaves or throw around backhanded comments. And to an extent, I dont agree with that you have to look at history and make racism on one group worse than another in this time. Sure, bad things happened in the past, but progress is made by looking at the past, changing, and looking at things now, in our time. If you just used the past as a basis then it's very easy when discussions arent going someones way, to just give up and fall on the cushion of "Well you're ancestors did ______ to my people."

Personally, I've have never shown racism towards anyone, so I don't like people throwing it in my face what white people did during times I wasn't alive.

I think history and context give you a starting point. But I also feel that our government (though I dont like alot of stances our government upholds) does not promote racism and slavery, etc, so you have to look at individual people or groups and judge them, not an entire ethnicity because of some people's stupidity, and treat everyone in this regard on equal footing. If not, then you're never going to get people to stop.

Plus, the race card is very easy to abuse and most do, especially when someone doesnt have a great argument to present. Not only that but some groups use it very illegitimately. Honestly, for all complaining about racism I hear from certain groups, I don't think I ever hear about Asian people up in arms over being mocked. Which is good and bad. Maybe they dont have a strong enough support group, or really, maybe they dont care what others think. Which if so, props to them. I think most people who are racist, no matter who against (black, white, Asian, insert any ethnicity) usually are not worth listening to anyways.
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:40 pm Reply with quote
Nocturne123 wrote:
Take for example say black and white people both had something horribly bigoted or racist said about them, yet only one group was defended, or the white people were just brushed off because they are "privileged". Maybe some groups get it more frequently than others, but that doesn't mean it is right in either circumstance.

And this is the false equivalence in a nutshell. It may indeed not be right in either situation. But "not right" and "an injustice" are different things. The racism against the black folk is far more likely to be an injustice than the racism against the white folk.

And at the same time, there are lots of "make even" claims of racism against white folk that are just a shell game, trying to make people who are disadvantaged because of their economic status feel that the cause is "reverse racism", when the actual problem is large corporations grabbing all of the financial advantage of productivity gains for themselves, and not sharing the benefit of more productive workers with either their workers or with small business, as they once were pushed into doing.
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Sewingrose



Joined: 11 Jan 2011
Posts: 579
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:42 pm Reply with quote
@Nocturne123

Nope, not touching any of that with a thousand foot pole.

Anyway, regarding the podcast: I'm all for the use of Anncast to help preserve parts of the history of Anime/Manga in America. Stuff like that will always be fascinating for me.
And regarding the liveshows being a bunch of sillyness, well yes, but they are such endlessly enjoyable sillyness both to be a part of and to just listen to.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:49 pm Reply with quote
@Nocturne123

I think this all sounds smart and logical to you in your head, and I can understand that, but the thinking here is so wrong-headed and, in my opinion, really pretty awful and I don't care to continue this conversation with you, sorry. Off to enjoy my Sunday.
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Saffire



Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 1255
Location: Iowa, USA
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:45 pm Reply with quote
Nocturne123 wrote:
Personally, I've have never shown racism towards anyone, so I don't like people throwing it in my face what white people did during times I wasn't alive.
I would be stunned if this was actually true, but even if it isn't, people probably aren't throwing things in your face from before you were born. They're throwing things in your face from right now, because really, our society hasn't made as much progress as you seem to think it has.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:15 pm Reply with quote
You wouldn't argue that it is okay to steal from people wealthier than you just because they have it better. So it's plain wrong to argue that Caucasians or men (or Caucasian men) should not have their current rights defended just because they have it easier than other groups.

All rapes are bad, whether the victim is a man or a woman. All ethnic violence and persecution is bad, no matter what the respective skin colours are of the respective groups. Racism, sexism and all other negative prejudices should not be tolerated no matter who the victims are, and certainly should not be excused based on past behaviour of people who are now long-dead.

History as a mitigating factor doesn't even come into the equation. No-one is responsible for the crimes of their forefathers, so to argue that people are allowed to be jerks to those who had privileged ancestors is plain stupid. Women underwent hundreds of years of persecution just from our Anglo-Saxon culture, so does that mean women now get an equal amount of centuries to persecute men? Of course not, that's ridiculous. Equality and fairness is the key to a healthy, stable society, not tit-for-tat revenge.

This isn't complicated, it's common sense.
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Surrender Artist



Joined: 01 May 2011
Posts: 3264
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:22 pm Reply with quote
Am I the only one who thinks that the fact that we're discussing an analogy between hating moe fans and racism absurd? Hating moe fans is more like hating people who do that stupid 'galloning' thing or Hippies; a little crass at worst.

They're not even that comparable, let alone as severe.

dtm42 wrote:
This isn't complicated, it's common sense.


When something is deemed common sense, it often makes little real sense, but has a great deal of stubborn and narrow-minded support, just 'because.
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