Forum - View topicThe X Button - Excused Absences
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gatotsu911
Posts: 457 Location: US of East Coast |
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My understanding is that the videos involve Sarkeesian talking to the camera with some simplistic graphic effects as she explicates Feminist Theory 101 as applied to video games. The argument that she needed even $6,000 dollars to acquire and play the necessary games is absurdly weak - if she's a gamer, she almost certainly has a significant portion of the necessary equipment already, and acquiring the rest is not a hefty investment (unless she's mentioned some extremely obscure and hard-to-find games that I'm unaware of?). Did she do some kind of large-scale study for these videos? Is she producing some heretofore unheard-of insight about the nature of media sexism? Because if not, I'll be damned if I can see where the money's gone, never mind the $154,000 over budget. And as TitanXL pointed out, she (along with Feminist Frequency) has been making similar - in fact, in terms of production values, indistinguishable - videos for years now without demanding thousands of dollars from the sympathetic public. What makes these videos different? Of all the people who make videos of themselves expressing their views on Youtube, how many demand large donations from their fans before they make their next one? I'd honestly like to know.
I don't begrudge her having dedicated fans, even fans so dedicated that they'll give her exorbitant amounts of money to fund Youtube vanity projects, or even a horde of the aforementioned reactionary-reactionaries willing to shower her with spite-money just because a large portion of gamers on the Internet are vocally misogynist twits. I just think all those people are suckers. |
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Northlander
 Posts: 901 |
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I think that percentage needs to be downgraded some. While there certainly were beat 'em ups where you needed to save a girl/woman (Double Dragon and its sequel aside, Final Fight and Kung Fu Master comes to mind), in most of the games I played in the arcades, the plot was more about saving the city/country/world from whichever evil force was threatening it (mostly street gangs, yes), restoring order or whatnot. |
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HitokiriShadow
 Posts: 6251 |
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Here's some commentary on the budget and explanation of why the amount she asked for would be justified (or even low) from someone who actually makes internet videos. |
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gatotsu911
Posts: 457 Location: US of East Coast |
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I mean, what really pisses me off about the whole Anita Sarkeesian thing is that, because this is the Internet and these are gamers, nobody's allowed to take a middle ground. You think Sarkeesian is the Lady Savior of video game culture itself, or you're a "chauvinist malcontent". Any skepticism about what she's doing at all is met with either knee-jerk (!!) accusations of sexism or rallying cries of crude misogyny/a person I disagree with politically self-pity. Reminds me why I continually keep myself distanced from gaming culture at large.
Last edited by gatotsu911 on Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Cecilthedarkknight_234
 Posts: 3820 Location: Louisville, KY |
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Hmm so any thoughts on the heavy text import roundup for the psn this week guys?? I mean a visual novel actually made it to the psn which is a step in the right direction. I really hope more of these old games/gems get releases over here. "Again I will not talk about the elephant in the room that everyone is poking at."
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gatotsu911
Posts: 457 Location: US of East Coast |
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This was informative, thanks. I guess I can see why the starting goal was so high now, though I'm still dubious on account of the fact that 1) none of her/FF's previous videos required Kickstarter money, and 2) all these costly effects hardly seem like necessities for a video that is, again, essentially just Sarkeesian speaking her views to the camera (views that are - again - hardly groundbreaking stuff). I still think it's a ripoff, but maybe not as nakedly exploitative a ripoff as I had assumed. |
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LinkTSwordmaster
 Posts: 381 Location: PA / USA |
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Amen to that. http://kotaku.com/5990184/if-video-games-are-going-to-grow-up-then-the-bullying-needs-to-stop That's Cliff Bleszinski's response to the whole thing, and it sounds pleasantly reasonable. I cant understand the people that swing wildly in either direction on their opinions about this.......it's just something that needs to be taken into consideration when making games is all, end of story. The same thing goes for the subject of racial and LGBT content. Anything that prompts (HEALTHY!) discussion and new & inventive ideas is good for the cultural/artistic diversity of everything in the end when it is done tastefully and respectfully. Lastly, I've probably owned/played all 50+ Mario games, and especially in recent years, it seems like Nintendo is hurting for new characters to add to their sports/party/racing titles since the tech is up to par & they can have more characters onscreen at the same time (I'm sick of seeing generic selectable Koopas/Toads and such). Yes, Peach is available in all of those as playable, but so is Petey Piranha in a lot of cases......and sadly he seems to have more personality than quite a few of the other spin-off title selectables these days. Peach has never really had too much of a chance to shine in a narrative setting beyond the Mario RPG game cameos & her own DS one. |
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TitanXL
 Posts: 4036 |
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MovieBob is a terrible person to get an estimate from. MovieBob is one of those "internet reviews" who do a bunch of outlandishly stupid skits with props and other actors like the Angry Video Game Nerd and Nostalgia Critic. That would obviously cost more money than sitting in front of a camera with video game footage spliced in. You can not compare their work and budgets, even if his is clearly much lower than AVGN/NC.
It is definitely a shame. At least berating men for disagree and saying they're just chauvinists make sense (not justified, just predictable) even if it unfortunately means any male's opinion on her is automatically dismissed, but the fact even females have to put up with being called "gender traitors" like my one friend if they disagree with her is pretty ridiculous. It's all disappointing and why I'm glad I don't really go to video game sites anymore, especially since it seems to be starting to affect Western game developers like the recent silly God of War controvery. I just have to wonder where the western game industry is going to go from here. |
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Cecilthedarkknight_234
Posts: 3820 Location: Louisville, KY |
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In all honesty I hope for a game industry crash then we can start over. Yes I'm horrible person for wanting millions of people out of jobs but that's where the console market is headed. |
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diet panda
Posts: 7 |
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Sadly, I feel that the "Vs. Women" series isn't going to change the way the industry works or thinks for one simple reason: Game companies don't listen to pseudo-academic internet lectures, they listen to sound of cash registers.
Ultimately, these sexist tropes (jeez, what happened to just calling them clichés?) will continue to exist because sexist games continue to sell. When Rescue-the-Princess-of-Bikiniland XXIV makes enough cash to fund RtPoBXXV, XXVI, and XXVII, why bother changing course? The question they're thinking isn't "would feminist-positive games attract a female audience?" but rather "would feminist-positive games scare away our current male audience?" Maybe they could make more money, but they're much more afraid of losing it. So the status quo remains as it has since the time of Donkey Kong and Dragon's Lair (and Custard's Revenge). Maybe if that Kickstarter money was used to help fund an alternative gaming company that produced games by women and girls, for women and girls, I'd feel a little less cynical. |
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gatotsu911
Posts: 457 Location: US of East Coast |
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@LinkTSwordmaster: Yeah, just to be clear: I'm not saying I have any sort of problem with people having critical/analytical discussions of the portrayal of women (or whatever other marginalized group) in video games. (I usually dislike the loaded rhetoric and hypersensitivity that makes its way into these discussions, but I have no problem with the nature of the discussions themselves.) My issues with this particular controversy all relate to things specific to this particular controversy. That the vitriolic responses to the mere existence of the Sarkeesian video (forgetting for a second about the Kickstarter campaign and subsequent fallout) reflect disgracefully on the gaming subculture shouldn't even need to be pointed out.
And yeah, Nintendo has gotten lazy about the Mario roster in recent years. The side chapters in Paper Mario where you could play as Peach sleuthing around Bowser's castle were legitimately pretty great though. About as much as you could ask for from a character in a franchise as narratively simplistic as Mario. Also the various Zeldas have been getting progressively more developed as characters and more involved in the plot as the narratives for the Zelda series have gotten progressively more elaborate, so it doesn't seem entirely fair to characterize her as a generic distressed damsel. (Also if anyone asks, Tetra's the best Zelda by leaps and bounds.) @diet panda: I think you may be overstating the case a little bit. "Big-man-rescue-endangered-woman" narratives have been around since... always. And they're probably not going anywhere. The important question is whether there is or will be variety and more sophisticated narratives showing up in video games any time soon, and I guess that's still up in the air. Last edited by gatotsu911 on Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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belvadeer
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Except Super Princess Peach was considered to be quite sexist by some, since Peach fights with her emotions to an exaggerated (read: cartoonish) degree and reviewers thought the game's overall theme was trying to say "all women are overemotional when they fight". Of course, that's nonsense but it still stoked some ire. As for today's article, we can keep dreaming in regards to FF Versus XIII. That game is simply not happening. |
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littlegreenwolf
 Posts: 4796 Location: Seattle, WA |
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I think you people mad at Anita Sarkeesian (really, why would her videos make you pissed?) are just grumpy because she pointed out how sexist the boys club of video games really is when it's just common knowledge girl gamers have been living with since they took a controller into their hands..
There was nothing knee-jerk about anything she covered in this first video, it's just how things are, and how everyone (except people raising the rukus) has always known it to be. Growing up the only video game "role model" I could have really was Lara Croft, and that sort of went away when I got old enough to realize how objectified she was to male fans, and when the games really began to focus on that objectification. Glad the newest game actually gave me cause to take pride and welcome her back as part of the female gender again. We can all happily claim that we're all aware of how sexist games can be, but I guarantee you these videos and the attention they've gotten have opened the eyes to some small minds not previouly familiar with the concepts. And yeah, as a kid I always knew Mario was about some dude saving a Princess who I personally could never really understand why she got kidnapped so much. The core games don't bother to make Peach a respectable character, so Sarkeesian's point about Mario is valid. And do you guys really think of her (Anita Sarkeesian) in terms of internet video game culture? I didn't even know she had a name in it til now. I and a bunch of my friends know her for various feminist videos we share among each other. She's quickly becoming a major feminist voice for my generation, whether video game jocks like her or not, she nor the women who share some of her opinions really couldn't give a damn less. If we women want to have a discussion about what interests us, we damn well will no matter how much of a hissy fit the anonymous boys of the internet may blow and tell us we're outright wrong. Your opinion doesn't matter. If we want to fund a kickstarter with our own money, we're going to, and no matter what you say we won't think our money was wasted. Your opinion doesn't matter to us on this of all subjects. These videos create a public conversation some of us support, and we'll continue to fund it, just like we fund and support other outlets that do things like supply us with reviews by women, for women on things like anime, video games, movies, or manga/comics. Guys just don't and won't get it. Why? This is feminist culture. To all you men that do strive to, I salute you. So continue being pissed, but do yourself and society a favor and think long and hard on why you're pissed. |
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Primus
 Posts: 2761 Location: Toronto |
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I wouldn't be surprised if 76sixty axed Phantom Breaker's release due to Microsoft's minimum print runs. Companies are required to print at least 40,000 copies on the 360. If the publisher looked at preorders and felt they wouldn't make those numbers, they may have just backed out.
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gatotsu911
Posts: 457 Location: US of East Coast |
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Did you... did you actually read my posts, or just skim them? Because you seem to be replying to a strawman version of me rather than anything I actually said. (And I can tell this is a response to me, because you borrow some of my language and skim over some of my points.) I specifically differentiated between people taking issue with the fact that the video even exists with those taking issue with the manner in which it was publicized and funded. (Why this video, and not other fatuous Kickstarter projects? Because this is the one that's in the headlines.) And what I'm "pissed" about is the shallow, black-and-white nature of the rhetoric surrounding the controversy itself, which you're actually demonstrating by reiterating the simplistic "anyone who criticizes Sarkeesian must be a big old sexist" narrative. I know nothing about Sarkeesian, except that she's used this Internet shitstorm to pocket a tidy sum of cash. And as I said earlier, the Mario games are intentionally reiterating a simplistic and classical narrative. None of the characters are defined whatsoever beyond broad stereotypes - nor do they need to be, because the games are not actually about saving a princess but about running and jumping through colorful playgrounds and/or obstacle courses. Saving the princess is just context (why is this dude doing these things? why do I want to make him to succeed?), conveyed in the simplest possible manner. As I said, there's plenty of sexism in games to talk about, but Mario hardly seems like the most pertinent or concerning example. (TitanXL mentioned God of War - let's talk about that.) |
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