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rheiders



Joined: 05 Jul 2011
Posts: 1137
Location: Colorful Colorado :)
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:10 pm Reply with quote
@mufurc
Yeah, I actually just skimmed through a few scenes in the fansub to check just that. Thanks for posting the less derptastic stills Smile I didn't watch the whole thing (I'll wait for the official stream for that), but I liked how the animation looked in the parts I did watch. The realism is nice, but I also like how the fact that it's not actually live-action adds an unsettling air to the whole thing. It's like they're using the uncanny valley to their advantage.
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JoePianist



Joined: 24 Jun 2011
Posts: 37
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:41 pm Reply with quote
mufurc wrote:

I'm not into rotoscoping in general, but I think it works very well for this show. It adds a realistic, live action quality that wouldn't be there using more traditional character designs and animation, and if this story is really as dark and realistic as people say it is then I think it's a good idea to do it this way.


If "realism" is the argument for defending this style, why not just make this a live-action drama? You're using real-life actors as models for the rotoscoping anyway Razz Plus, you'll save costs from not having to animate over actors.
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Myaow



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 1068
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:44 pm Reply with quote
RyanSaotome wrote:
Yeah, thats great. I imagine they're trying to trick the production committee into thinking theres actually a lot of demand and then produce a lot of discs that nobody buys. 2ch isn't happy about this so I can totally see them trying to make the producers lose a lot of money.


Why would they do that?! That's so destructive and irresponsible and just aaaaagh! It could hurt so many people in real life! I don't want to believe that anime fans could be so horrible to the producers to do something like that.
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 8038
Location: IL
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:02 pm Reply with quote
And fans don't want to believe that there are studios that would urinate on the source manga's art, yet these things happen.
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tearitdown



Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 10
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:26 pm Reply with quote
Megiddo wrote:
And fans don't want to believe that there are studios that would urinate on the source manga's art, yet these things happen.


I wouldn't use a charged term like urination. But they more or less dismissed it.

I had sound issues with the footage I was watching, but from what I saw the protagonist is a bit less goofy compared to the manga. So it seems that they're rewriting some of the character attributes to suit their needs also.

The novelty of the look is great. So's the music. Faithfulness is not always such a great thing. I'm not trying to moralize or preach or whatever, but someone mentioned the Kubrick stare earlier, and I mean in the case of The Shining, the book was basically gutted and re-serviced. Kubrick did that often with pre-existing works. I quite enjoyed The Shining, more than the book.
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lossthief



Joined: 14 Dec 2012
Posts: 693
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:33 pm Reply with quote
So I went into Aku No Hana expecting, if nothing else, it would be something worth talking about, and by god it was. I'm all for experimentation. I'm all for trying new things, and giving new takes on a story through adaptation. That doesn't mean I'm going to ignore the fact that the character animation is ugly and distracting.

Some have said that a "realistic" or "Dark" look is fitting or the story, and I can agree. It certainly works well for the background art in the show, which all looks great. But the characters don't look realistic. They look inhuman and uncanny. Faces morph from "realistic" to bizarre between frames, when they talk it never looks like a bizarre ventriloquism act, and movement is jerky and unsettling in ways I doubt were actually intended.
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TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4036
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:55 pm Reply with quote
Aku No Hana is a great example of just because something is unique and different doesn't make it good. Being different for the sake of being different is usually a sign of doom and misguided thinking.

Megiddo wrote:
And fans don't want to believe that there are studios that would urinate on the source manga's art, yet these things happen.


Agreed. I admit I never read the manga, but if it was a manga I was looking forward to seeing animation and was presented with this I would be really upset. Especially after having looked up the manga and saw the original designs which looked great.

If you want to try your artsy "unique" stuff, then at least have the decency to do it on an original work. That way, when it bombs (like, say, Panty and Stocking) the only people hurt are the animators and not also a pre-existing manga fanbase.
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Chagen46



Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 4377
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:06 pm Reply with quote
Can I say once again how I hate modern society and its abhorrence of creativity, vision, and artistic license, and it's incestuous love of similarity and dullness?

Panem et Circenses. We've been the same damn bread and given the same damn circuses so long we've become blinded.

Sigh....well, there will always be people who rise above the vulgar masses, but they're so rare these days.
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Myaow



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 1068
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:08 pm Reply with quote
I agree that Aku no Hana is kind of incompetently put together (especially in the juxtaposition of constantly-moving rotoscoped figures and static or limited-motion figures in the same scenes) and fans of the manga have a right to be disappointed and frustrated! That's normal and it's good that they care so much!

However, the pranksters that Megiddo and RyanSaotome commented on who are trying to cause Actual Literal Real World Problems for the people working on the cartoon are kind of yucky and indefensible! But I'm not saying that you people who are disappointed are terrible, just the ones who are pulling such a mean prank. Do not be mad at me, my friends!
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tearitdown



Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 10
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:23 pm Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
Aku No Hana is a great example of just because something is unique and different doesn't make it good. Being different for the sake of being different is usually a sign of doom and misguided thinking.


Your first statement is true, just because entertainment is unique doesn't make it good. I don't think any of us are confident enough to put forward the claim that the aesthetic we are seeing now is there solely to differentiate itself. I don't necessarily believe any of these, but...

- The style is being implemented as a template for future projects in the same style.

- The creators felt the style suited the work better.

- The style is somehow cheaper, although this probably isn't the case.

TitanXL wrote:
If you want to try your artsy "unique" stuff, then at least have the decency to do it on an original work. That way, when it bombs (like, say, Panty and Stocking) the only people hurt are the animators and not also a pre-existing manga fanbase.


That's true. But I bet it's difficult to get approval for a project based on an unproven work... The show might turn out to be garbage. Many do. But I like it so far.

Are all these shows being spotlighted going to simulcast in the states? Anybody know? Just curious.
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GYRAX



Joined: 27 Jun 2012
Posts: 48
Location: Central Florida
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:17 pm Reply with quote
I just saw some bits of Flowers of Evil, earlier. Is anyone else reminded of Ralph Bakshi's American Pop?
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 9310
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:31 pm Reply with quote
Chagen46 wrote:
Can I say once again how I hate modern society and its abhorrence of creativity, vision, and artistic license, and it's incestuous love of similarity and dullness?

Panem et Circenses. We've been the same damn bread and given the same damn circuses so long we've become blinded.

Sigh....well, there will always be people who rise above the vulgar masses, but they're so rare these days.


What are you even talking about? Stop pretending to be some grand philosopher and better than everyone else. If someone wants to hate on ugly art, that's their prerogative. If the show is ass ugly but the story and characters remain the same, they can just go read the manga, so I agree experimentation is better done with original works where there are no preconceived ideas of what characters should look like.

Even if they're trying to make some statement, it'll just be lost when the show sells nothing and no one remembers it. But even that doesn't make sense, since the manga doesn't have some uguu moe moe kyun design, it just looks normal.
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Ravensky



Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:39 pm Reply with quote
Flower of Evil was strange today...saw it earlier and definitely thought the animation was not done right. The backgrounds were beautiful though.
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 8038
Location: IL
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:13 pm Reply with quote
Myaow wrote:
However, the pranksters that Megiddo and RyanSaotome commented on who are trying to cause Actual Literal Real World Problems for the people working on the cartoon are kind of yucky and indefensible!

They're just irate fans who are trolling. No damage will be done. The DVD after just a few hours had already slipped in preorder rankings and I imagine it will tumble back to the bottom pretty soon.
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RyanSaotome



Joined: 29 Mar 2011
Posts: 4210
Location: Towson, Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:25 pm Reply with quote
http://myanimelist.net/anime.php?q=&type=1&score=0&status=0&tag=&p=0&r=0&sm=0&sd=0&sy=0&em=0&ed=0&ey=0&c[0]=a&c[1]=b&c[2]=c&gx=0&o=3&w=2&show=620

Aku no Hana is now the lowest rated TV series in the entire MAL database. This is getting pretty hilarious.
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