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NEWS: Lucas Looking to Anime?


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Necros Antiquor



Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 571
Location: Funny in a car crash sort of way
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:28 pm Reply with quote
Dejitaru Otoko wrote:
Quote:
I don't think Square is much of a threat to anyone right now, considering their developers are jumping ship.

I liked the Final Fantasy movie. Of course it isn’t anywhere near as good as the games, but its still a decent flick. Damn fickle movie audience!

Just kicking a dead thread. Don’t mind me.

Well, ignoring the varying story quality of different Final Fantasy incarnations (game or movie), Square certainly has the technology to do 3D animation great justice. However, that's not really good if it takes this long to make a movie. FF: Spirits Within took a while, and how long have people waited for FFVII: Advent Children? Nearing 3 years or more, I believe. Meanwhile, Dreamworks is pumping out three CG movies a year (not all good, I must mention) and Pixar is putting out a movie every 1-2 years.

What I think is sad is that the American animation industry believes that only 3D animation will sell these days and that 2D animation is too old-fashioned because no one watches it these days. Want to know why no one watched your 2D movies, MPAA? Because the movies were crap. Sure, it was the same 2D stuff done even better, but Brother Bear, Sinbad, Treasure Planet (which was 2D done with tons of CG), and your other recent 2D movies were just crap movies, not people ditching 2D for 3D. Meanwhile, some actually good movies like Shrek and anything Pixar did were made in 3D, and you think that only 3D sells. Sure, they're good movies, but there's something to be said for going to the movies to see some animation that took some hand-made efforts to create instead of something that looks like extremely well-done video game cutscenes. (On a similar note, bring back some hand-drawn sprites for video games!)

Cloe wrote:
We already have that... kinda. Star Wars animation doesn't need the whole anime "look" to be good. I love this show just as it is.

Clone Wars rocked on its own, and it's a testament to American animators that cartoons don't need to rip off the anime style in order to be good. Genndy Tartakovsky used his unique visual style; even though there were a couple of small nods to anime styles, it remained a separate style that didn't look secondhand. Also, I thought the animation for General Grievous was really cool, especially through the use of extreme movements that a more realistic anime (or the live-action Episode III) could never capture.
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Dejitaru Otoko



Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 13
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:37 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
LotR has a lot of really good CGI, but I could still tell a lot of the CGI was CG. RotS was the first movie where many times I couldn't, and considering the amount of CGI used in that film, characters and environments, you have to give ILM credit. They are still leading the way.

Yes, the visual effects in Revenge of the Sith were very good. And yes, there would be no WETA Digital without ILM; I’m not arguing against that. And yes, not all the effects in the Lord of the Rings trilogy were perfect.

BUT...

...the Star Wars movies visual effects (especially Sith) mainly revolve around metallic objects: spaceships, droids, etc, which are much easier to replicate digitally, because of the relatively stationary nature of those things. Lord of the Rings was dealing almost entirely with organic things: horses, creatures, etc etc, which are much harder to do convincingly in CGI. I could easily pick out a lot of the “digital doubles” (CGI people) in Revenge of the Sith, especially some of the shots of Obi Wan on his lizard thing, while I STILL can’t believe that Aragorn and the hobbits running over the Balrog’s bridge were CGI. The hobbits capes swung absolutely perfectly, something General Grievous’s cape did not do. And why, oh why, can I tell when they are using a CGI R2D2?? That should be easy!! But R2 just has a very odd, soft look about him when he’s CGI. Oh, and of course Gollum. Sorry, but Gollum should end ANY argument of this nature. Even though you can (occasionally) tell he’s CGI, Gollum can ACT. Gollum can REALLY act. Yoda did act, but mostly when he was a puppet.

And that isn’t even getting into the prosthetic and model work. (How “high school play” quality do those asian alien things look next to the Uruk-Hai’s and Ghimli?) I know it sounds like I hate Star Wars by now. Let me remind you, I don’t. I liked Revenge of the Sith, and it had VERY GOOD special effects, but the Lord of the Rings had BETTER special effects.

Yes, I have to give ILM credit, a lot of credit. But no, they are not leading the way anymore.

Jeez, I thought for sure this thread was dead.


Last edited by Dejitaru Otoko on Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Dejitaru Otoko



Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 13
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:49 pm Reply with quote
Abarenbo Shogun:
Quote:
He was talking about FFXII, where some of the creative staff pretty much jumped ship due to "creative differences."

Ah, I didn't know that, but I figured he was referring to something more current. Its just whenever I hear about Square not doing well, I think of the Spirits Within. *sniff*

Necros Antiquor:
Quote:
(On a similar note, bring back some hand-drawn sprites for video games!)

Yes, yes, yes!! Oh beautiful Guilty Gear, I love you!!!
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Pop-Art Samurai



Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Posts: 62
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:57 pm Reply with quote
Dejitaru Otoko wrote:

... I could easily pick out a lot of the “digital doubles” (CGI people) in Revenge of the Sith, especially some of the shots of Obi Wan on his lizard thing, while I STILL can’t believe that Aragorn and the hobbits running over the Balrog’s bridge were CGI.


But in that same section of Fellowship we get a shot in which Gandalf is nearly goosestepping, while his beard most unnaturally flies back over his shoulder in a clump.

The truth is that the effects in LotR and Star Wars are most of them too different in nature to compare, and flaws can be found in both.

By the way, last time I checked there were a whole bunch a people eagerly waiting for Advent Children. The long wait may have frustrated folks, but I don't think it's dampened their enthusiasm.
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 9:35 pm Reply with quote
Tivome:
Quote:
Not that big of deal, of course, but all his talk about reverence to Asian culture etc just sounds a little hollow.


Um, he co-produced Kurosawa's Kagemusha.
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Dejitaru Otoko



Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 13
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 10:38 am Reply with quote
Quote:
The truth is that the effects in LotR and Star Wars are most of them too different in nature to compare, and flaws can be found in both.

The all purpose tiebreaker. But it works for me! This argument was not going to go anywhere.


Quote:
By the way, last time I checked there were a whole bunch a people eagerly waiting for Advent Children. The long wait may have frustrated folks, but I don't think it's dampened their enthusiasm.

It didn’t dampen mine! That movie still looks awesome, and waiting a while for it isn’t a big deal for me, because I still need time to...*swallows pride*...finish the game. Yes! Its true, I haven’t finished FF7!. Uuugh! I'm such a terrible videogame player!

(Actually its partially because I reached the final boss using the hideously unstable PC version first, and the game wouldn’t stop crashing long enough for me to beat it. But I have no excuse for the PSone version.)
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Proman



Joined: 19 Nov 2003
Posts: 947
Location: USA
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 1:39 am Reply with quote
Hunter Gren wrote:
Having read the full article it looks to me like Lucas is lambasting anime as it currently is.
Quote:
Lucas revealed Monday that he wants to bring the wonders of 3-D animation to Asia, produce television shows much more cheaply than the rest of the industry, and make sure that his Industrial Light and Magic (ILM) effects house doesn't lose its famed camaraderie and creative spunk.

"I put all of my resources into pushing the evolution in an industry that is notoriously backwards and I enjoy pushing that envelope,"


While its not clear what this is a reference too, the full text makes it look like he is talking about traditional style animation as backward.

I may be in the minority, but I have seen very little 3-D or CGI animation that I considered to be at or above traditional animation. The style of 2-D, or traditional animation might cost more, as Lucas alludes too, but it has a quality that I've yet to see 3D animation touch.

Don't get me wrong, computer based animation can be very good, Gonzo productions come to mind, its the 3D productions I don't think are that great. What worries me is that people like Lucas who think that new is automatically better and have the clout to throw behind it have the potential to do whatever they want without repercussions. Lucas has the power and scope to actually warp the anime industry and I for one, don't want that to happen.

Screw this! I would hate to see traditional anme being converted into 3D CGI fest. Lucas doesn't understand that 3D is not better than 2D (he also doesn't understand that shooting on film is still better than shooting on video but that's another point) it's just different.
And not you're not in minority. There's a reason why studio Ghili still continues to make 2D anime and is more succesful than anyone else.
By the way, I'm not against 3D animation at all (and look forward to seeing Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children) it's just that I prefer my old school 2D anime.
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Abarenbo Shogun



Joined: 19 Jul 2005
Posts: 1573
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:18 am Reply with quote
Tivome wrote:


Pop-Art Samurai wrote:

Bai Ling to start. But he also originally wanted Toshiro Mifune to play the character of Obi-Wan.


Did you see Bai Ling in Episode III? Do u know why you can't see her? Cus she was cut. Mifune was considered, but not given the part. (every friggin English bio of Mifune has this blurb, as if Mifune needs Lucas's approval to be considered great). Thus far, no Asian face has ever appeared in a Lucas film, lest you count the two trade federation morons with fake Asian accent. Not that big of deal, of course, but all his talk about reverence to Asian culture etc just sounds a little hollow.......


.....aside from Bai Ling posing nude for Playboy. Laughing

Quote:
And there never will be a star war anime. I don't think he likes the style; but he just want his own 2D animation studio. I would bet money that whatever he produces won't be in the anime art style. Just another 2D American animation fair.


Lucas pretty much is a License Whore who would put out anything with the Star Wars name on it if he know it will sell. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if he took a few cues from Mel Brooks from his spoof "Spaceballs" and produced Star Wars Toilet Paper!!

So would Lucas make Star Wars Anime if he thinks it would sell? Of Course!! Is he doing it or considering it? Not right now is my guess.

Oh well, back to downloading Jar-Jar Porn. Razz
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Pop-Art Samurai



Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Posts: 62
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 12:36 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
.....aside from Bai Ling posing nude for Playboy


Yeah, which someone just told was the reason she was cut from Revenge of the Sith. Which was probably what you were getting at...Anyway, I seem to recall that one of the backup "vocalists" in Jabba's place, RotJ, was Asian. As well, I think there are some minor charcters in the prequels who are Asian. Asian Twilek chicks. Anime dazed

Finally, I agree that if Lucas thought a Star Wars anime would sell, he'd make it. If nothing else, that man has a pretty keen business sense.
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Starwind Amada



Joined: 26 Sep 2004
Posts: 981
Location: Easton, PA, USA
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:33 pm Reply with quote
BeyonderZ wrote:
This isn't any thing new is it ? he is just like other directors/producers that have seen diffrent animes and think they would like to "get into it" ^^'' come on.. it's a joke.. and the punch line is all you so called anime fans that like the idea of LuluLukas creating anime ... wtf ...


I agree. These moronic directors need to come up with their own scheme and stop trying to capitalize on REAL anime. They're just making it look like cartoony crap about superheroes with big eyes. Take Teen Titans for example. That show should be on Nickelodeon, not Toonami, for its kiddiness. These directors think anime is all about big eyes and quirky mannerisms. Heh, no wonder their little scheme isn't working; we all know the difference.
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 15305
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 10:02 pm Reply with quote
Lucas defended axing Bai Ling by saying he also cut footage of his daughters in the film. I just hope it ends up on the dvd.
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Steventheeunuch





PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 10:13 pm Reply with quote
Starwind Amada wrote:

I agree. These moronic directors need to come up with their own scheme and stop trying to capitalize on REAL anime.


I fail to see how someone who makes an internationally successful, billion dollar franchise is moronic for wanting to do his own thing.

Quote:
They're just making it look like cartoony crap about superheroes with big eyes. Take Teen Titans for example.


As opposed to all of the other popular anime out there about giant robots with big eyes? Vigilanties with Big Eyes? next point-

Quote:
That show should be on Nickelodeon, not Toonami, for its kiddiness.


But toonami is a kiddies block, with programming for kids. Teen Titans, while not the most innovative of shows, isn't exactly the worst thing in the world.

Quote:
These directors think anime is all about big eyes and quirky mannerisms.


To the Japanese, that is also what anime is. Any anime that seriously tries to break that mold (except in a few cases) isn't very comercially viable, and doesn't exactly make a good thing anyway (how successful is paranoia agent? koi kaze? millenium actress? Tokyo godfathers?).
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Abarenbo Shogun



Joined: 19 Jul 2005
Posts: 1573
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 3:41 am Reply with quote
Pop-Art Samurai wrote:
Anyway, I seem to recall that one of the backup "vocalists" in Jabba's place, RotJ, was Asian. As well, I think there are some minor charcters in the prequels who are Asian. Asian Twilek chicks. Anime dazed


You mean Lyn Me? I prefer Oola.
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Proman



Joined: 19 Nov 2003
Posts: 947
Location: USA
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 3:12 pm Reply with quote
Pop-Art Samurai wrote:
Quote:
.....aside from Bai Ling posing nude for Playboy


Yeah, which someone just told was the reason she was cut from Revenge of the Sith.


I knew about this and and as much as I liked Revenge of the Sith I simply cannot think of a dumber reason to cut someone from a movie.
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Pierce



Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:57 pm Reply with quote
There seems to be a bit of confusion as to which country produces the highest quality animation.

-As a suggestion, I think we should take a moment and organize a global list that shorts the quality of each country's 2-D animation ability, that begins with the most proficient country at the top, and the least talented, lowest quality animation producing country, at the bottom. Studios corresponding to their respective countries could also be included if you would like.

Here's my sample list:

1. America (Disney Feature Animation/Fox Animation Studios)

2. Ireland-England/ France (Sullivan Bluth Studios/Marathon Animation )

3. Japan

4. South Korea (Dong Woo/ Young Woo/ Sun Woo)

5.Taiwan (Wang Film Productions)

6. Philippines (Pacific Animation)

7. India (Toonz Studio)

8.China
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