Forum - View topicANNCast - Mawaru Podcastdrum
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dm
 Subscriber Posts: 1359 |
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I dropped Sakurasou no pet after the first episode. It's gotten such positive reviews from people who stuck with it that I'm planning to give it a second chance.
I didn't even bother with a single episode of Girls und Panzer, but its charming soundtrack caused me to take a look at it. That show has no right to be as charming and winning as it is. Thanks for the podcast. My copy of the DVDs has been sitting unwatched since I got them (I did watch the series earlier), but now you've pushed me to rewatching it. I put on the first two episodes immediately after finishing your podcast. Damn, what a beautiful series. I wish I could find a decent artbook for it. As to "for the win", I'm think it might be a fine, or at least understandable, translation, given the context --- spoiler[At first, it seems as though Ringo went into the lingerie store in response to that woman in the restroom talking about triple-lace, and I believe there was some text about lingerie in the magazine she was reading. Given her focus on Tabuki, the only thing that's odd about Kanba's remark was how did he know that context?Also, it's not so very far from Kanba's player persona]. If Zac hadn't made a fuss about it before (and now, again in this thread), I would never have noticed the line in the subtitles. |
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Veers
 Posts: 1197 Location: Texas |
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I believe this was linked in the show's official thread in the anime forum last year, but here is the translation of an interview with Ikuhara that was from the JP BD release about themes of the show, specifically about family and communities. Sheds some interesting light into some of the things he had in mind while creating the story for anyone looking for additional reading about the show.
http://penguindrum.livejournal.com/44413.html For anyone checking the thread that hasn't seen Pengunidrum, I would recommend not reading until after seeing the show. Not because of spoilers so much as because the interview is sort of a commentary on the show, so watch first for context. |
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ANN_Bamboo
ANN Contributor
 Posts: 3904 Location: CO |
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So I'm going to be nit-picky about this particular thing, and say that I don't think that Momoka is a Christ-like figure because the standard imagery that usually accompanies Christ-like figures in literature are not present. With the exception of the apple, I don't think I caught any other Christian imagery, but if I missed some big things, I would love it if someone would point them out. Other than sacrifice, but because there is no resurrection, that strikes out a big part. |
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pangea001
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I don't post much, but I wanted to drop in and thank you for devoting an entire episode to Penguindrum. I watched the fansubs when it came out initially and grabbed the discs immediately when they were released. I've been waiting to hear a good discussion on the show ever since I saw the first episode. Along with a few others in this thread, I'm in agreement that Penguindrum is very Haruki Muikami-esque, as his works often seem to be more about the themes than the plot. The only thing I would add here is that if I had never seen an episode and were just going off the podcast, I would perhaps get the impression that Penguindrum is entirely dark and serious, which it definitely is at times. But all that seriousness is tempered by a healthy dose of humor and absurdity. Which is a big part of what makes this anime work for me. An utterly unique and multi-layered show for sure. Everyone should check it out.
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Maidenoftheredhand
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The apple and sacrifice thing really comes from Night on the Galactic Railroad not the bible. That being said there are some critical differences in what Ikuhara says about sacrifice and what Night says (at least in my own interpretation). |
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ANN_Bamboo
ANN Contributor
Posts: 3904 Location: CO |
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Er... yes, but there is a lot of Christian imagery in Night on the Galactic Railroad. Actually, there is a lot of religious imagery in general in Night on the Galactic Railroad, but Christianity is in there. I would argue that even though the apple in NGR represents the universe, there is also an argument to be made for that to be tied into the fruit of the tree of knowledge. I think in literature, it is extremely difficult to have apples at all without invoking some kind of Christian imagery-- or at least just that singular aspect of apples = knowledge. |
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ANN_Bamboo
ANN Contributor
Posts: 3904 Location: CO |
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I think as with many things, you get different things out of a piece of visual or literary work, at different stages of your life. The age of the characters does not matter. You can watch Penguindrum when you're 14 and enjoy it, but enjoy it on a vastly different level if you watch it again when you're 24, and when you're 34. A truly good work has many layers to it, and as you age and mature, and fill yourself with different life experiences, you respond to certain subjects in different ways. I loved Catcher in the Rye as a high school student, but having re-read it a couple years ago (almost 10 years later), I appreciated it much more. Holden Caulfield is a teenager, but JD Salinger was most assuredly an adult when he wrote it. And in fact, he originally wrote it for adults. You don't understand adolescence until you're no longer an adolescent. Speaking of the age of characters, or any kind of depiction of characters, I think it matters less what they look like, than what they say or experience. You could probably enjoy Polar Bear's Cafe as a 5-year-old, but there are many layers of nostalgia and nuance that aren't "unlocked" until you've lived a couple decades more. That having been said, I don't think there's a "right time" to watch Utena, Penguindrum, or any media. Nobody has the same set of life experiences, and everything will get something different out of every series. Any time is the right time. Last edited by ANN_Bamboo on Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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invalidname
 Contributor Posts: 2444 Location: Grand Rapids, MI |
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I wonder if this episode wouldn't serve as a nice pilot for a new format, where Zac and/or Justin pulls in one of the regulars (Bamboo, Theron, Carlo, etc., or maybe a well-regarded outsider) to do a deep dive on a single title, something significant that either a lot of people have seen or should see (Pengindrum being the latter). So in addition to the "Justin and Zac shooting the breeze" show when a guest cancels or can't be scheduled, they'd have this format to fall back on, and be able to say "OK Hope, get out your Norton Critical Edition of Faust, we're doin' a deep-think on Madoka Magica tonight."
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dm
Subscriber Posts: 1359 |
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Not the least is Murakami's book spoiler[Underground, a series of interviews by Murakami of survivors of the 1995 sarin gas attacks.] |
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Maidenoftheredhand
Posts: 2633 |
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I am not denying there is religious imagery in Night on the Galactic Railroad (and yes including Christianity). But the meaning behind the story is not in reference to Christianity. The last stop after all is spoiler[not the Christian heaven but the true Heaven] so no I don't think the apples in the story have anything to do with what they mean in Christianity. Apples are actually a common symbolism for many religions and beliefs not just Christianity. Although it is true the apple is often seen as something "forbidden". In this case it is not though. I think it is just a knee jerk response to see all symbolism as something we are familiar with (in this instance judeo-christian) edit: Also I agree with you that people experience things differently at different times in their life. And to be clear I am not saying Catcher in the Rye was a bad book (obviously it is not) it just personally did not do much for me. 
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ANN_Bamboo
ANN Contributor
Posts: 3904 Location: CO |
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Then even more support for my disagreement that Momoka is a Christ-like figure. I think we're in agreement on this.
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neocloud9
 Posts: 1178 Location: Atlanta, GA |
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Somewhat related to this thread of conversation, would you recommend watching Utena prior to Penguin Drum? I own both now, but have yet to start either one. While I'm sure both will require multiple viewings, do you think there is a "best" viewing order for them during the first go-round? |
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SoandSo
 Posts: 204 |
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I did say "Jesus-like. Despite the relative lack of Christian imagery(although recall the scene near spoiler[Himari's first "death" where Shouma recites a folktale comprised of several different myths and stories, using the words "forbidden fruit" explicitly)], Momoka's altruism and the ultimate point I feel Ikuhara is making about clinging to close and affirming yourself to be able to help others, lines up curiously well with certain Christian and many other religious creeds, depending on how far you care to take the metaphor. I wasn't saying she was intended to be a literal Christ figure,(nor does the apple necessarily mean what it does in Christian mythology; spoiler[pretty sure it represents the idea of being "chosen", some set up to succeed and others to fail, and that it is us, not some god, that has the power to spread goo fortune to each other.]) but perhaps it was the wrong label to use. A more apt comparison, obviously now that it strikes me, would be a more optimistic spoiler[Dios.] |
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dm
Subscriber Posts: 1359 |
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Actually, I think I'd recommend watching Penguindrum before Utena, but it doesn't matter --- the two series are completely unrelated. |
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Jambe
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A nice podcast. I think I agree that cynical isn't the best term to describe the series' ethos, and that world-weary seems more fitting.
The show was remarkable. I agree that it's broad enough in its themes and symbolism (especially towards the end) that "people will see what they want in it", to use the cliche. I feel a little left out because I didn't construe the show as a refutation of fate. I thought the show demonstrated that we are fated, but that we'll never have a clear picture of our destinies (the implication being that meaningfulness itself arises from fate's ungraspable nature). I don't know if the show had a central message. If I had to formulate one it'd be something like: "life is meaningful despite destiny" or, in long-form, "the numinous urges and feelings arising from family, solidarity, simple consciousness, etc can make life worthwhile in the face of a bleak, unyielding reality". In that sense I saw the show as simultaneously espousing rejection of fatalism and acceptance of fate (that's a non-trivial distinction). There were also hints of "suffering can be worthwhile in and of itself" and "suffering has its own strange beauty" but that's not uncommon for existential media (nor is it uncommon for me to read that into situations inappropriately; call me a masochist). --- Tangentially: for millennia people have wondered whether fate is a crafted characteristic of the world (and/or an active force) or whether it simply "exists" as e.g. molecules exist. I think one can take the show to have implied that both were in some sense true, but my own baggage makes me identify more with the latter interpretation than the former. Atlhough... well, I'm not religious, but I still don't necessarily disagree with the idea that fate might be crafted in some sense. If we're inexorably bound by causality, as it seems—even if said causality is unknowably-probabilistic—then "craft" or "intent" can still be construed in fate as the emergent social phenomena which arise from peoples' decision-making (i.e. deities need not be assumed). On a related note, the neuroscience of free will is pretty interesting. |
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