Forum - View topicFlowers Of Evil (TV).
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ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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What honestly seems more plausible to you: That she is socially isolated because she hates everyone, or she hates everyone because she's socially isolated? I think danilo07's explanation of her apparent hatred for her classmates is valid but only on a surface level. Whatever reasons she says she hates them, there's clearly a lot more that preceded it. You're kidding yourself if you think the kind of rage she has isn't rooted in some much deeper social problems. And sure, it's a vicious cycle and she makes it worse by acting as she does. But she's more a victim of the stifling, inescapable and fiercely judgmental environment she's in. (Which is a well documented trend in both small towns and the Japanese school system).
Obviously. Look, I fully acknowledged that there's a pretty good chance part 2 will never happen and that I'm just speculating. I'm really not sure why people are so committed to shooting down any slight possibility that it could though. |
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David.Seth
 Posts: 453 Location: near SF |
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It all boils down to two things: rotoscoping and its slow pace, though I would guess most people are offended by the former. Which is a shame. A scene like the climax from episode 7 had such beauty being rotoscoped. As for the slow pace, it does get a b it much at times. That walk Kasuga and Nakamura have is just too long. edit: As for why people want to shoot down a possible season 2? Well, many are so upset at the art style and/or pretentious/slow story that they cannot fathom a season 2, despite there being many fans of this show. Unfortunately I do consider it very unlikely that they will make a season 2, but if they do I will be very, very happy. |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23769 |
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The problem with your contention is that we haven't really seen much evidence of the "stifling, inescapable and fiercely judgmental environment" that she's in. That's kind of the problem I have with Nakamura and Kasuga. They both seem to have decent parents (a father and grandmother in Nakamura's case) and their teacher and classmates seem like perfectly ordinary people. If anything, those two are the ones who seem "fiercely judgmental", especially Nakamura. I'm not looking for an "after school special" neatly wrapped up in a bow reason for understanding Nakamura's rage, but I think that in Part 1 the show didn't throw out enough crumbs - at least not for me. |
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HaruhiToy
 Posts: 4118 |
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More than that, at the beginning it appeared that Kasuga and his dad had a reasonably good relationship with their shared interest in books. And who can doubt at this point his mother's attentiveness? Nakamura's situation is a bit more of a cipher. With what little clues we have tt looks like something went seriously wrong with her mother. Her dad seems decent enough and seems to care what happens to her but boozing it up in front of a putative friend-of-his-daugter is a bit of a warning sign. Having said that I have never been it the "it must be the parents fault" camp. They can make things worse, but it is entirely possible that the daughter is afflicted with some undiagnosed physiological malady that has colored all her thought processes. |
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ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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Really? I thought that was conveyed pretty clearly in the earlier episodes. Like...episodes 3 and 4 I think. (We were talking about it in this thread as I recall). Admittedly a lot of it doesn't really involve Nakamura directly but when Kasuga is first being blackmailed I think they definitely show just how nasty and judgmental their classroom can be of anything even slightly different. And Nakamura is definitely different. She's a pretty weird girl even when she isn't freaking out at anyone. It's not hard to imagine that she'd have trouble. And as I said, this is a fairly well documented phenomenon in the Japanese school system. There's extreme pressure on kids to fit in and conform or face ostracization. And as for the town, it's probably most apparent from her desire to go over the mountains but the implications are still there. It's such an incredibly small town. Their school seems like it might be the only one in town so there's no chance of her even finding anyone outside of school to interact with. I think it's interesting too that, as people have mentioned, she doesn't really have any hobbies. But I can't help but think there's a reason for that. Kasuga is lucky to have a used/obscure bookstore to support his outlet but who even knows if there's anything there for Nakamura. She doesn't have a computer. I get the distinct impression her family is kinda poor. (She owns like literally two sets of clothes. Her house is all overgrown and her dad is home drinking on a weekday). So she probably doesn't have any money. It's really no surprise she feels stifled and trapped.
Perhaps that's fair to a degree. The show isn't super direct about this at all. I guess I just think its the fairly apparent implication. If Nakamura was more or less just moody and unpleasant as most teenagers are I'd be inclined to agree with you. And again, I think that's not an unreasonable description of Kasuga. But the level of rage Nakamura displays goes far beyond the typical teenage angst. There's clearly something behind it. I tend to attribute it most to the serious social issues because that ties right in with what was going on with Kasuga. Although some unspecified family issues or mental disorder (be it something extreme or just a social disorder that exacerbates the aforementioned social issues) could well be on the table too. Either way though I feel like it's not really her fault. |
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Bonham
 Posts: 419 Location: NYC |
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I agree, although her reactions are still radically disproportionate to those around—well, as far as healthy reactions to being ostracized go. She's a teenager, and probably a mentally ill/disturbed one at that, so it's not reasonable to expect a lot of clarity given her situation. It's why I roll my eyes when people rag on Shinji when he's a clinically-depressed and suicidal 14 year old boy told to go be a soldier—most of the blame lies with the adults and system who are clearly incapable of providing help for someone like that. But Nakamura's reactions go beyond that for me, even if she is likely mentally ill. The difference is probably how she internalizes, or fails to. Part of this may go back to what others mentioned about her lack of an outlet—no hobbies or activities to escape to. But the kind of blatant disregard for others shows an absolute lack of sympathy that crosses into psychopathy. Life can be boring and other people can be fake, and sometimes there seems to be little alternatives to whatever you're experiencing now—but how you react to that is still up to you, even to the smallest degree. Personal responsibility is almost always still a factor in these characters, and screaming at, manipulating and blowing off others are actions that cannot be entirely absolved by one's environment. Plus, the kind of help Nakamura supposedly wants is pretty much fed to us in Kasuga's fantastic dream sequence. He already had a warped view of Saeki to begin with, and I doubt he's suddenly grown a greater insight into how girls and women think. While there may be some truth to her simply wanting someone else to share in her nasty cynicism, the idea of her as a sort of victim of circumstance is also largely reinforced by Kasuga's fantasies. ... Well, if there's anything common thread throughout all this, Kasuga's simply an idiot. |
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ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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Oh that's certainly true. I don't mean to say otherwise. My point is this: Compared to Kasuga, someone who largely just needs to get over himself, Nakamura has real problems. She can't be completely absolved of responsibility for her actions but there is clearly some major root issues there that go well beyond trumped up teen angst. I don't see how anyone (and I don't mean you here) can simply dismiss that as something she "brings on herself" or needs to just get over or can not feel a great deal of sympathy for her. |
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LUNI_TUNZ
 Posts: 809 |
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This pretty much, I figured out when we inside Nakamura's house, we'd get some inkling to get psychopathy, but still nothing. Hell, I figured when they focused on Mr. Nakamura's beer, their was going to be something there, instead, he just seemed to be a guy having a beer. |
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11347 |
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I marathoned 9-13 because it was such a chore to get in the mood to watch this each week. I really enjoyed 9-12 (maybe because I didn't have to wait, or maybe because they were just better episodes). But after 13, I feel like I've been trolled, and I'm pissed off.
Because of the "_ of 13" episode markers, I think it was not unreasonable to assume this would be a complete story presented in 13 episodes, not half the story strung out over 13 episodes. Since they knew they were only doing half of it and ending on a complete non-ending, I feel like a sucker now for even bothering to watch this. I don't care whether there's ever a second half or not, I won't be watching it. |
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jsc315
 Posts: 925 |
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Then you really got nothing out of this show at all. The ending is more of what you perceive it to be. It's something that can be debated and up for interpretation, if you were expecting a full closure, then you probably were not following the show that close. |
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11347 |
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No, I was expecting 13 episodes. Period. If they wrapped it unsuccessfully, I would have been annoyed, but lots of anime do that, so I would have just looked at what was offered. But the ending wasn't just "here, interpret it how you will." It was, "stay tuned for part 2!" By pretending there will be a second season, or preparing for one whether or not there is one, was false advertising, since they made a point every episode to say it was 13 episodes. That's trolling.
And because they made it clear they weren't giving me their entire version of the story, you're right, I got nothing out of it. It was a waste of time. It's no different than if a 12 episode series stopped at episode 6 and said, "look forward to episodes 7-12!" Why even bother trying to get anything out of the first 6? |
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jsc315
Posts: 925 |
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well I got a ton out of it and was very thought provoking. If the ending messed that up for you then I don't know what to tell you. Each episode got me thinking deeply about myself and how I would have acted in this situation. The series in whole was a deep emotional experience and I love every minute of it. It's very rare that I can say that about any kind of media in general.
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Spotlesseden
Posts: 3514 Location: earth |
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finally read the manga. I totally agree with people who think the anime is horrible. 3/10 for me. The manga is much better. This one is much better for live action than this type of style anime.
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Rockweaver
 Posts: 58 Location: North Texas |
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I can not think of an anime that was more painful to watch than this. episode 1 was so bad i stopped watching. the pace was so slow grass grows quicker.
i will never recommend this. i still dont see how it got such a high rating. |
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HaruhiToy
Posts: 4118 |
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Not everything worth watching is easy and light hearted. |
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