Forum - View topicAttack on Titan (TV) (all seasons).
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ACｘS
 Posts: 880 |
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That's what my gut feeling is telling me: he might be a double-crosser who's not for Marley or Paradis Island. He's doing it for himself. Maybe not exactly what you might not hope for, but the crux is about Zeke's intention. |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2841 |
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#69
More pieces from the past fall into place for this episode. The series equivalent of Japan is back in the spotlight as well as the role it played both in the Marleyan capital and in the background before that. I'm unsure if the knowledge regarding infrastructure of locomotives came from the Marleyans or Azuma, but the knowledge sharing session they had in that past arc was certainly beneficial to the islanders, even though the material intentions for providing it were plain for everyone to see. Besides that arc, events in the present suggest all is not well in the islanders' camp. There are extremist factions which are happy to see Zeke killed straightaway, preferably with his body consumed by others for his powers. Eren's once erstwhile friends doubt him for indirectly causing Sasha's death and his lack of remorse over it, Eren himself has plans of his own which even his closest family have no idea about since he won't share them. Hange despite it all is still the same old inquisitive Hange who has a knack of winding people up the wrong way with her unusual way of questioning others. Historia getting pregnant was a surprise. I don't for a minute think she "knocked up" by accident, it is clear there's calculation involved. For the plan to work, Historia HAS to inherit the powers but cannot do so in her current state. Looking at her appearance, there's roughly a month or two before the plan can proceed (assuming she survives childbirth in a society with no antibiotics). It's quite possible the series will proceed with character development for the rest of its airtime since the scale of what lies ahead is too vast to be compressed into several episodes of content. It's fine and all to call it the "final season", but they could do what the Gintama series did and release a movie somewhere down the line with all the inevitable action set-pieces as the main plotline goes through with its final conclusion of the Titan equivalent of nuclear holocaust. |
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ACｘS
Posts: 880 |
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69 (heh, NAIS):
WHOA WHOA, HOLD ON A SEC-- There's a lot going on in this one episode. You notice how often it switches back and fro from the past to the present? - Nation Hizuru willing to ally with Paradis Island. Make sense; Marley has been trigger-happy with their expansionist plans that they're bound to make some enemies. Plus, their shogun's descendant is apparently Mikasa (wait, what) so it's DESTINY! But there's a catch: they're more interested in Paradis Island's Iceburst Stone (i.e. oil) reserves and they're working with Zeke. Also not surprising; nations are always guilty of serving their own interests (Kiyomi licking her lips lololol). But this brings us to the next huge point... - Zeke's 3-prong plan. 1) use the Rumbling as a deterrent to the world; 2) cooperate with Hizuru until their military is strong enough to defend Paradis on their own, and 3) propagate the Titan blood by continuing the lineage. 3) is obviously opening a big can of worms; like Hange said, it's essentially pushing down the curse of the Titans to the children of the future. In short, the kids shouldering the sins of their forefathers and basically weaponizing them. Imagine that: Zeke wants Paradis Island to basically become just like Marley (how ironic). Wrap this around your head; even if the plan is perfectly sound, it's ethically outrageous: now the discourse changes from "how do we protect ourselves" to "how do we exploit our people to save the country". - Historia got knocked up. Wait, what? When did this happened? I didn't expect a drastic plot twist like this happening so soon. Was it intentional so that she won't have to inherit the Titan? Circumstantially, it's tempting to say so. The timing is too impeccable. The higher ups of course think it sucks, but then again at least one of them wouldn't bat an eye to sacrifice their own queen for the sake of the nation. If someone wants to kill them quietly and overthrow the government, it's only an incident waiting to happen. - Going into Marley wasn't originally Eren's plan; it was Hange's. And it wasn't meant to be a tactical strike; it was meant to be a peacemaking one. But then I have to ask: what kind of peacemaking treaty would she expect by "infiltrating" an enemy nation? At the very most, one does that to gather intel and even that's often done out of not-peacemaking intentions. When this plan eventually turned out to be Mission Blow Up the Port and Destory Assets, it's because Eren diverted from Hange's plans and started doing his own. Which brings to... - Eren's motives. He explicitly says that he's got only 5 years left. That kind of timeline would push anyone to desperation. I sincerely think that Eren would never sacrifice his inner circle to anyone or anything. But I can understand if the inner circle, especially Conny, can feel the same especially after seeing what Eren's been doing as of late. Eren would never sacrifice his friends... until recently when he seems to get Sasha killed because of his suicidal mission (tbh Eren didn't get her killed per se; it's just that the Scouts' regroup and retreat was sloppy). Friends before Zeke? I can't tell yet. - Dumbasses pointing at each other à la Spider-man meme. That was gold. - All the kids had major growth spurts. What are the kids eating these days. The whole episode is a parable on facing the outside world. Paradis Island confronts many unknowns, new relationships are made and torn, people change and distrust each other. Previously, when Paradis Island was on their own, they had a common enemy. They learned to trust and rely on each other, they listened to their conscience, and their common goal is simple: fight or die. Now, all that is thrown into disarray because of the outside world. |
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ACｘS
Posts: 880 |
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70:
Continuing what I mentioned in the previous post, it's ironic how the people of Paradis Island are becoming more conflicted about what they should do, once they learned and interacted with the outside island. Although it's a boon that they've gotten more allies—whether or not they're really allies remains to be seen—but now they're experiencing dissidents even in their own circles. Previously, they were united but now they seem more confused about what they should do to address the war with Marley. And now we're starting to see a worrying trend: a cult of personality for Eren Jaeger. The people have always believed in the government, but now the government's hesitation seem to shake up the public's confidence in them. And then, you have Eren who, despite being a dick and endangering his platoon mates, has the public's support. Not to mention he's also the Founding Titan and therefore the "key" to Paradis Island's salvation. And you know what the cult of personality breeds? Dictators. Not saying that Eren's going to be one, but the setup is there. See how all of this is playing out, like a satire of history and politics in real life? Yeah, because history repeats itself. Gabi and Falco hashing out with Kaya about Marley VS Paradis Island is the kind of serious talk we wish we can have with all the wars we have throughout history. Country A goes to war with Country B, Country B fights back, the cycle continues, and ultimately descendants pay the price for what their ancestors did, even if we never agreed to it. Gabi's argument for waging war doesn't make sense, but that's exactly the point: wars don't always make sense. Deep inside, I think even Gabi knows her hatred is unjustified. It's just revenge on a large scale, a classic "Us versus Them". Like I said from the onset, I just wonder what kind of role Falco and Gabi are playing in the story. Now that they're aware that not all Paradisians are devils—although honestly I don't think Gabi's views have changed just because of her talk with Kaya—they're going to find it a little harder to wage war against the enemy as a whole. |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2841 |
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#70
This trend of character exposition over action will continue for a while. I'm not expecting major action set pieces like the Marleyan Capital until the end of the series or even beyond that. The consequences of the raid and the interplay between the opposing sides gives a different side to this series than was previously seen. The series has certainly moved on from its simple beginnings of man vs. Titan. Viewers know Eren stayed a long time in Marley and learnt the enemy he hated for so long wasn't all that different from the Islanders. Even though he went ahead with his plan, I do not believe he did it wholeheartedly and without reluctance. With this episode, it's made clear some of the Islanders (Floch et al) bought in with Zeke's grand scheme of a new Eldian Empire and have every wish to see Eren Jeagar leading them to glory. They even helped him escape to the Marleyan continent to carry out Zeke's plan. Why Eren went along with it despite initial misgivings is something I hope is explored before the series ends. As for Gabi and Falco, they are now doing the reverse journey which Eren did. Gabi is the typical fanatic of one side with the weight of history being used as a crutch, Falco has already heard what Eren had to say and is less inflexible in how he treats the "devils" of the island. One thing which wasn't explicitly mentioned is how quick Kaya was on the uptake; she overheard the two runaways talking about their true identities but kept it a secret. Not only that, she has contacts with exile Marleyans who she thinks can help the pair escape from the Island. In the four years, the presence of the Marleyans turncoats has for better or worse made itself part of the island's landscape so there isn't widespread shock about this compared to four years ago. The Marleyans are also quick on the uptake. Just analysing the ODM gear alone was enough to reveal Zeke's betrayal. Pieck's witness account and the airship were also big clues to what really happened. If Reiner and the other surviving sentient Titans get their way and a surprise assault is launched, the only thing that can save the Islanders from all-out war is the imminent Rumbling experiment. It's not explicitly stated, but if the Titans who inhabit the walls of Shiganshina was activated just as Reiner and an advance guard make landfall and attack, my bet would be the Islanders winning through sheer numbers especially if the ODM armies are given enough time to sortie and reinforce the awakened Titans. There are two shoutouts to the past in this episode. One being Mikasa's unintentional creation of a die-hard fan, the other being Sasha's role in saving Kaya. I like the second cameo in particular; Sasha isn't just a comic relief character in this series and her death isn't going to be forgotten in a hurry. |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2841 |
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#71
This episode reminds me of the previous season, when internal politics and character development held sway with the ginormous titan shovelling dirt being more of an afterthought. I'm sure there's going to be action down the line now that Eren Jaeger and his supporters have made their move, but for now viewers not privy to the source material will have to figure out for themselves what's driving Eren to betray his oldest companions and look for his estranged half-brother. The problem with civil war is enemies on the outside always look to take advantage. Pieck has already snuck onto the island and is probably gathering information before the rest of her compatriots start their assault. There's also the wild card of Gabi and Falco who are quite capable of starting a mini-riot while the island's forces are worrying about an insurrection. This series had an unusual start time because of the length (not the traditional 12-13 episodes). I'm expecting it to finish by the end of this month nonetheless, which leaves little time to sort out this story arc before the inevitable final movie which will probably feature the Titan Awakening in some form or another. No matter how this goes, I'm struggling to think of a way which will get the Islanders out of their predicament without risking a global holocaust. There's no point having a "New Eldian Empire" when it's just a rehash of what Marley is doing now and what happened centuries before; on the other hand there's no way of restoring the status quo prior to Reiner and company's actions. Eren despite his previous history as a hotheaded youth should have learned this from his long sojourn abroad, so if he's got a third way that saves his homeland and achieves his long-stated goal of destroying all Titans it's going to be a novel one. |
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15462 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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Seasons one and three were two core seasons, so I was kind of assuming that was what the final season was going to be.
Probably won't be the case, but I was somewhat wondering if Pyxis might not be against Eren, although probably looking too much at his idea of surrendering to them, framing it as the best step to actually stop things. He also seems one of the more aware that Zack has likely been controlling things including Eren through Yelena, who actually is less merciful than she has acted to gain good will. Also, is Yelena supposed to be a cis woman or a trans man? There presentation in general just comes across masculine, and we already have someone like Hange as non-binary. |
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ACｘS
Posts: 880 |
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71:
And there you have it: anarchy. Long story short: Eren is becoming more and more influential, perhaps even more powerful than the government. Eren has even gone off the rails to do what he thinks must be done, even against the government's orders. Government doesn't like that, and has to imprison him. Chances are, they think Eren is a loose cannon who's becoming too much of a liability so they're looking for a successor for the Founding Titan. Or that's what the people think, and that's why the government is rapidly losing public confidence and anarchy came about (see why public confidence is so important?). The internal conflict and growing sense of social mistrust is very topical, although I don't think I need to point this out since it's kinda obvious. It reminds me of the growing fear of the spread of communism during the Cold War, when people's loyalty and ideology are put under scrutiny. The key instigators are Yelena (whose gender orientation I couldn't care less) and Zeke, whom Hange is trying to be corroborate with her fellow ex-Marleyans to see what she's up to. Apparently even Onyankopon isn't always on the same page as Yelena, but it seems that Yelena simply acted out on her own to see if Eren is indeed the key to changing the world. So ultimately what does this suggest? Pyxis fears that Eren is conspiring with Yelena and Zeke—one whose loyalty is still being tested and another who's basically the devil the government is making a deal with—but the sheer irony is, maybe none of them are working with each other. It's just that, out of dumb luck, all their motives are aligned and just because of that it looks like they're working together based on the circumstances. A classic case on how different pieces are all falling into places even when nobody intended it. To be honest, I doubt any government in real life would choose to work/negotiate with their leader's killer. I understand Pyxis's standpoint and rationale in working with Eren even after he's thought to be behind the Premier's death, but honestly I think this wouldn't happen in real life. "We don't negotiate with terrorists", as the mantra goes. Technically they do, but only for the intention of leverage, never for admitting that Eren has single-handedly twisted the government's arm into submission. On a lesser note: 1) I'm a little sad to see the Premier being killed by the contraption of his own weird fetish. gg, man. 2) EREN'S ABS THO. |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2841 |
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#72
The first episode actually started off with an interesting tidbit; Zeke reveals how he transformed innocent villagers into mindless obedient Titans. What's even more terrifying is he actually lied about the process and it's only this episode that Hange and the others discover what the lie is AND that Eren and his followers are well aware of it. A lot of this episode is getting Gabi to face up to her simplistic brainwashing of Eldian islanders being devils who should be killed. Despite the lack of dramatic action, the emotional impact is well delivered with Sasha's father delivering what is probably the most rational monologues in this series filled with borderline insane individuals. What I like about this episode is how it combines the Gabi part with the main story from the previous episode with Hange and the others. I'm not sure what Eren himself is trying to do; looking at his facial expression it's clear he's under a lot of strain and would very much prefer not to talk to his oldest friends in the circumstances they are in. Yet he's committed to a cause he refuses to speak about, at least not until next week's episode. The last time he cut his hand to start a conversation, it didn't end well for those involved. Hopefully at the end of this there won't be a repeat, but his motivations and to what extent he's really fallen for Zeke's scheme are the biggest hook for future episodes to come. I don't think it's as simplistic as Eren going rogue and all-in with Zeke's scheme because of the time urgency; when he drank the Warhammer's blood his eyes widened due to the inheritance of the powers as well as possibly the memories. If he did inherit the latter, then it's certainly possible that there will be a divergence between the goals of Zeke and Eren. Whether or not this speculation is on target remains to be seen. |
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DuskyPredator
Posts: 15462 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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It would make sense if Eren is playing 3D chess, like he understands that Zeke probably really does not have best intentions at heart, and Eren understands he needs to pretend to be fooled by Zeke. Have we ever found out what exactly the Attack Titan's power is?
Zeke himself seemed to set up the lie that his spinal fluid causes paralysis before he can then turn them into a titan with his roar, so that many of them would not realise that Zeke has been poisoning high ranking people to turn them into titans. It really was a perfect storm of a situation, Gabi unknowingly with the family of the girl she killed, happily fessing up to having killed said girl to her maybe boyfriend. |
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ACｘS
Posts: 880 |
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72:
Yup, like Dusky said it: the perfect storm.
Remember this part? Yeah, the more I watched this episode, the more I'm starting to believe my hunch is true: it's becoming a shitstorm. Was it all part of "a plan"? Maybe. Maybe not. Who knows. It's a free-for-all, now. The theme for the previous episode was anarchy (or rebellion, or coup... whichever you prefer). This time? Hoaxes. You know why? Zeke's spinal fluid. Nobody can prove whether Zeke's claim that this spinal fluid can turn Eldians into Titans, so he could be blatantly lying. But in a world where just about anything seems possible, can you call his bluff? If that many people believe it in, so much that it drives people to commit treason, does it matter if it's a lie? When people believe in a lie so much, it somewhat becomes true (self-fulfilling prophecy!). That's how hoaxes work: make a blatant lie that would make enough people to believe, and it's an insidious, self-propagating recipe for disaster. We're getting a Mexica--, no, Eldian standoff next episode. The trio are reunited in the most awkward situation: Eren is right in front of Gabi, who's obsessed with killing him all this time, Mikasa will always protect Eren no matter what, and Armin is perpetually in moral conflict. How will this end? Not pretty, that's for sure. |
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ACｘS
Posts: 880 |
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Before I delve into the episodes, I would just like to say that it's kinda befitting to have these specific episodes back-to-back. I'll explain why.
73 & 74: The illusion of free will. I see it. If anyone is thinking the same thing, it's this: how did Eren descend into depravity? Before he was more idealistic, but now he's just nihilistic. He's now the severely disillusioned kind who thinks "ah, f**k everything", and though he sounds like he's drunk on power, honestly I don't think that's the case. He's more like the kind who just learned the ugly truth about the world, and the only way to fix a broken world is well, just destroy everything. Salvation through destruction. Saving by killing. This is twisted and contradictory logic at its finest. By inheriting ancient wisdom, he learns how everything is a farce: Armin's "conscience", Mikasa's protectiveness. Well, everything except for himself who has learned the truth. That's why Armin stepped on a landmine when he suggested that maybe Eren is also a farce himself. And it's no surprise that he acted out on his own, but granted, he did talk with Zeke about the master plan (and that was why he went to Marley on his own). They're both not just thinking of granting Eldians salvation (through essentially extinction, honestly). Ultimately, and brutally speaking, they both feel like they're been rejected by their own father. Zeke: outright in his face. Eren: through discovery from old memories. That rejection is, I would say, push them over the edge and resolving with their master plan. Rejection and abandonment by one's own parents is probably the most heinous thing a parent can do, more so for someone like Zeke who not only is discriminated as an Eldian, but also discriminated by his own parents for being useless in their own quest. He (coincidentally) found a father figure in Ksavar and ratted out his own father. That's messed up. Why I think the two back-to-back episodes are great is because we learn more about Eren's descent, and Zeke's past and motivation. It feels like watching one big episode (and honestly I'm not sure why the subs didn't come out for the previous episode last week). But you know what's the most amazing part of all this? For the last few episodes, we've been seeing how Paradis is literally imploding, and Marley hasn't even attacked them yet! |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23769 |
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Kind of disappointing that after an awesome episode like 73, aptly titled "Savagery," that we get a limp biscuit for the penultimate episode of the Final Season. Actually, to tell you the truth, it's hard to imagine everything getting wrapped up with one episode to go, so I have to assume there will be a Final Season, Part 2?
Don't get me wrong, it was good to see more of Zeke's backstory but surely to God that could have happened earlier. To go from the blood pumping (literally) action of episode 73 to yet another "grinding plot to a complete halt" flashback was not cool man... not cool. I also have to assume the Eren is being mentally manipulated somehow or his ultimate plan involves making Misaka and Armin falsely despise him. I find it hard to believe he has actually hated Misaka his whole life. But I guess we'll see. |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2841 |
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#73 & 74
Eren pointed out two very painful truths to Armin and Mikasa during the conversation at the start of 73. What viewers have figured out (which Eren ironically hasn't) is that Eren himself has also been influenced by the Titan memories and has reached a conclusion which is not really his own. Why do I say this? 1. Eren has the memories of his father (who seized the Founding Titan). 2. He has the memories of the Founder who previously healed an entire empire from plague through anatomical modification (perhaps in a similar way to how Zeke transforms unfortunate victims) 3. Eren from the start always yearned for freedom, this is something he's had since he was a child. Now he says he hates those who lack freedom and live like livestock. This is the part of the Assault Titan speaking (i.e. the Owl and all of his forebears). Remember the Owl's motivations in starting the Restorationist Movement, and that in my opinion explains a great deal in the change in personality after several years dwelling on them. The die has been cast; Eren is forging ahead with his grand plan of racial genocide because he's convinced the only way to save everyone (an entire planet of humanity) from the terror of eternal Titan domination is to destroy the only race capable of transforming into them. Zeke came to the same conclusion albeit by completely different means which is nicely explained in #74. I still don't take to Zeke as a character, but his childhood is irrevocably shaped by the world he grew up in and in a completely different way to that of his father and the Owl. The way the story is going, it's going to be very depressing to see everyone dead and/or the last ever progeny of the Eldian people. One of the few who can stop this from happening is either dead or close to it, having not expected Zeke to do what he did. Without reading the source material, I can't see a way for Eren to change his mind as things stand. One thing which probably could change the course of the story (and it's EXTREMELY unlikely) would be for Eren to consume Zeke himself. With the combined memories of the Founding Titan, Assault Titan, Warhammer Titan and Beast Titan, a completely different path which would allow the Eldians to keep their independence might open up with more knowledge. Perhaps even the use of the impending experiment used as a springboard for something radically different; but it's idle speculation and probably too late considering how far events have progressed. Yes there are parallels between Eren's plan and the Final Solution, with the greatest irony being Eren coming to a conclusion which even the Marleyan oppressors wouldn't consider because of the military value pliant Titans possess. I'm unsure why physically removing the ability to transform Eldians to transform into Titans ever again (alchemical means or otherwise) is not being considered, perhaps a power which even the Founding Titan Ymir found beyond possibility. This season is close to its end, but there's no conclusion to be had if things just end as they are with the duped Jaegarist faction unwittingly contributing to the demise of their glorious empire before it has even begun. I'm guessing Marley will play its hand next week or beyond, and maybe then something crucial might happen which may or may not convince Eren that his great shared plan with Zeke is actually a really stupid idea borne out of despair. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23769 |
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@ Harleyquin - I'm a little embarrassed I didn't think of Eren being influenced by the memories of other Titans myself but of course that makes perfect sense in explaining his current mindset.
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