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kakoishii
Joined: 16 Jul 2008
Posts: 741
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 Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:50 am
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| Rahxephon91 wrote: |
| GarnetStyle wrote: |
| kakoishii wrote: | | There have been many shounen heroes way whinier than Aang. And I have to question how much of the show you actually watched if you're going to surmise that the story "sux." Also I missed the part where Japan copyrighted the style in which anime is drawn. |
The writers admitted to ripping off anime dude. |
I'm pretty sure the phrase they would use is "influenced by".
And well you didn't answer the due's question. Why is it a negative that it's very "anime"? |
What he said. And I'm a girl btw 
| Crispy45 wrote: | | Avatar's animation was waaay too boring and basic. Dragonball had much better cinematography and the action sequences had actual weight and feel to their blows unlike airbender. |
HAHAHAHAHA, oh man that's a good laugh. Ok, I promise I won't feed the troll anymore.
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Sleverin
Joined: 15 Jan 2013
Posts: 153
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Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:16 am
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A...a...girl?! Whoa, whoa, whoa...who let you in the 14 year old boys only club? I mean, we eat boogers here and throw rocks at cats, we couldn't possibly expect you to understand us!
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GarnetStyle
Joined: 10 Mar 2013
Posts: 28
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Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:00 am
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| Rahxephon91 wrote: | | I'm pretty sure the phrase they would use is "influenced by".
And well you didn't answer the due's question. Why is it a negative that it's very "anime"? |
Influence is a nice way of saying ripped off  It's a negative because it's unoriginal. By trying to be like anime it draws people to compare the two together, and when you compare the two Avatar just falls flat and shows just how bad it truly is. It's better when you compare it to other cartoons because it has no competition in that category since everythig else is an episodic comedy or superhero show but if you compare it to anime then it's suddenly outclassed. I don't get why every show has to try to be like anime these days and can't just do its own thing at least.
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Rahxephon91
Joined: 08 Jun 2003
Posts: 1859
Location: Park Forest IL.
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Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:31 pm
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| Quote: | Influence is a nice way of saying ripped off |
So lets follow this great logic.
Everything is now a rip-off.
Because pretty much everything is influenced from what came before. Cowboy Bebop is now a rip-off of John Woo because well obviously the creators were influenced when it came to doing Bebop's action scenes.
Watchmen is now a rip-off because it obviously is influenced and takes aspects from what is essentially the mythology of American Superheroes.
That kind of logic makes no sense, because creators are going to watch and read and take in the same things we are and are going to be inspired to but their own spins on things they like. You're going to tell me that if you were given the ability to create an anime or some tv show, you wouldn't think about designing it with inspiration from the things you love? I doubt it.
People today have no idea what the hell rip-off means. Is Avatar telling the same exact story and reusing the same plot point and character types. Are the character designs and worlds the same? Nope, it's not a rip-off then. If we go you're way pretty much every damn mech show is a rip-off as the creators of these shows are always boring to be influenced by what came before, and they are going to do their spins and send-ups to a genre they love.
| Quote: | | It's a negative because it's unoriginal. |
Which is a dumb critique here because the shonen genre is by definition pretty much unoriginal. Hell adventure stories are pretty much using troupes and story ideas that have existed long before they could be written down. So whats you're point here? If Avatar is unoriginal, then how is DBZ not? It's characters, world, and whatnot can be traced to other things as well. No, I'm quite sure Avatar puts it's own spin on these familiar troupes and tells its own story. Unless you can tell me beat by beat of another anime or whatever that has the same exact plot and story of Avatar, then saying "oh it's unoriginal is probably the lamest argument you can make here. It's vague and says really nothing.
Now what are you talking about? The art style. Kind of a stupid critique. It looks like anime? Ok? So. Anime looks like anime all the time, is there some problem with an American show made by people who obviously like anime make something that looks like anime? And even then it doesn't quite look like any other anime out there. It certainly carved out it's own look, albeit influenced by anime.
| Quote: | | By trying to be like anime it draws people to compare the two together, and when you compare the two Avatar just falls flat and shows just how bad it truly is. |
Eh this doesn't make any since. I think DBZ is pretty crappy. I don't care about Avatar either.But I fail to see how this is a reason this is bad, especially when you happen to be in the minority here. People really like Avatar, anime fans especially. So if anything your point has been proven wrong. The show has been compared to anime and it seems like it came out as a pretty solid send-up.
| Quote: | | It's better when you compare it to other cartoons because it has no competition in that category since everything else is an episodic comedy or superhero show |
Um what? Are you trying to tell me the very idiotic idea that anime is on some other level compared to other cartoons? Anime are just Japanese cartoons, I hate to break it to you. They aren't better at all. Hell if I compare Avatar to American shows, it doesn't come out better. No it comes out worse as even these superhero shows you are trying to imply are somewhat unequal to anime are pretty damn good.
Um so whats your point? It sounds like your argument is turning into "well it's not anime so its inferior" which is so dumb I can't even try to describe.
| Quote: | | but if you compare it to anime then it's suddenly outclassed. |
Ha. Don't make me laugh. Anime is not some magical genre that's better. They are just stupid Japanese cartoons. The shonen genre that Avatar would be compared to is filled with dumb plotlines that basically get repeated in every stupid shonen fighting show. They are filled with dumb 2 dimensional characters that exists to just fight and train. Hell these descriptions fit DBZ to a T. No I bet Avatar can hold it's own if DBZ is the competition.
| Quote: | | I don't get why every show has to try to be like anime these days and can't just do its own thing at least. |
Huh? I don't think most cartoons are at all trying to be anime these days. I turn on Cartoon Network and see nothing thats trying to be anime. And looking at anime today, thank god for it.
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TitanXL
Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4036
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Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:14 pm
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Here too? Really? I'm genuinely curious and maybe someone here can answer the question; what is about Avatar fans that makes them shoe-horn in their show into every tangibly-related topic on anime boards? I know why enurtsol did it in the other thread, because that's his pro-America posting style, but in a Dragonball thread now? What's the goal, exactly?
| Rahxephon91 wrote: | | especially when you happen to be in the minority here. People really like Avatar, anime fans especially. So if anything your point has been proven wrong. |
Aren't you one of the people who defended FFXIII here? You of all people should know better than to resort to "might makes right" tactics about 'being in the minority'. And frankly, I don't see how you can make a claim of majority for the anime community when the largest anime market out there doesn't care for it and detests it. I know this is the internet and people tend to just abandon logic on it, but still
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Rahxephon91
Joined: 08 Jun 2003
Posts: 1859
Location: Park Forest IL.
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Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:29 pm
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| TitanXL wrote: | |
Aren't you one of the people who defended FFXIII here? You of all people should know better than to resort to "might makes right" tactics about 'being in the minority'. And frankly, I don't see how you can make a claim of majority for the anime community when the largest anime market out there doesn't care for it and detests it. I know this is the internet and people tend to just abandon logic on it, but still |
I've never seen Avatar and I don't care to. I'm no fan.
We are obviously just talking about the North American community. And really the Japanese community detests it? Do they even care about it one way or another?
Anyway the poster's point was that fans should compare it to other cartoons and not anime because it will fail when compared to anime. But that doesn't make sense to me because it very much has been compared to anime, which is the entire reason it comes up. It's been compared favorably to anime and I don't think you can deny that. I'm not talking about it's quality because I don't know or care about it's quality. I'm pointing out that obviously it's gained traction in the anime community and there's a reason for that, so going "compare it to anime and see it fail" makes no sense. It hasn't as far as the North American community is concerned and well that's really the only community that we should care about when it comes to Avatar.
So how am I abandoning logic? Or are do you want to claim the show isn't really popular with north american anime fans?
And FFXIII has nothing to do with this, so there's no point in bringing that up.
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TitanXL
Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4036
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Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:00 pm
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| Rahxephon91 wrote: | | I'm pointing out that obviously it's gained traction in the anime community and there's a reason for that, so going "compare it to anime and see it fail" makes no sense. It hasn't as far as the North American community is concerned and well that's really the only community that we should care about when it comes to Avatar.
So how am I abandoning logic? Or are do you want to claim the show isn't really popular with north american anime fans? |
Well, which communities are we talking about? It's not like every North American community thinks and acts the same. Are these the same people who, like you , say anime sucks? I mean your comment of "And looking at anime today, thank god for it" and penguintruth's comments in the KyoAni thread give me the indication you guys don't like anime much to begin with. Or are we talking about another group of North American anime fans? It's not like every forum and community out there have the same hivemind thoughts as each other, nor do everyone in those communities think the same thing.. I mean, some people here actually do like anime, believe it or not
| Quote: | | And FFXIII has nothing to do with this, so there's no point in bringing that up. |
Sure it does. FFXIII haters routinely say the 'people who like it are in the minority' despite the fact sales figures said otherwise. I'm just pointing out the irony in you doing the same thing haters have done by resorting to dismissing an argument on the grounds that it's in some questionable 'minority' category rather than actually arguing the issue at hand. It's basically avoiding the actual debate issue for the sake of a cop out argument tactic (as if being in the minority opinion somehow invalidates and nulls a person's argument)
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Rahxephon91
Joined: 08 Jun 2003
Posts: 1859
Location: Park Forest IL.
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Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:55 pm
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| Quote: | | Well, which communities are we talking about? It's not like every North American community thinks and acts the same. |
Now you are just stretching technicalities to make your point. You know damn well in the general sense that the show is quite popular with anime fans, especially those one's who like stuff like DBZ. Because it it wasn't this popular show that gets brought up apparently a lot, then you wouldn't be able to make that comment in your other post.
The poster's entire point there was "hey if you fans compared it to real anime then it would suck". You really think those fans don't?
| Quote: | | Are these the same people who, like you , say anime sucks? |
Probably not, since they like and continue to watch shonen shows. Hence they get into something like Avatar.
| Quote: | | I mean your comment of "And looking at anime today, thank god for it" and penguintruth's comments in the KyoAni thread give me the indication you guys don't like anime much to begin with. |
Well new anime anyway.
| Quote: | | Or are we talking about another group of North American anime fans? It's not like every forum and community out there have the same hivemind thoughts as each other, nor do everyone in those communities think the same thing.. I mean, some people here actually do like anime, believe it or not |
Why are you getting uptight about a harmless generalization? Do you complain anytime someone says "such n such show is really popular? Do you go "oh no people on forum b don't seem to have the same opinion, so you can't say anime fans like that show. Like who cares. You and I both know the show is pretty popular with anime fans. Now do you not like that statement because it can't be 100% proven and measured? But then why did you make a comment about the show being apparently disliked by the Japanese anime community? Do you know that for a fact? I don't know, I don't care. But we do know there's an anime fandom for the show. And we know that because apparently it comes up in a lot of anime topics. So, then when the dude says "well if you compare it with actual anime it sucks". Apparently thats not totally a true thing. Most of the people defending the show have probably done that, hence they recommend it next with actual shonen anime. So then how is that poster right? His point doesn't really say much or prove anything. I'm not saying the show is good or bad, I am saying that matching it up with anime doesn't really say anything about it. Because being anime dosen't make a show automatically better and it's anime fans who seem to like it because of how it relates to anime.
| Quote: | | despite the fact sales figures said otherwise. |
Sales don't mean much.
| Quote: | | I'm just pointing out the irony in you doing the same thing haters have done by resorting to dismissing an argument on the grounds that it's in some questionable 'minority' category rather than actually arguing the issue at hand. |
But I'm not arguing the quality of the show. I don't care about that. I'm arguing that it not being anime despite trying to look like one dosen't mean its bad.
| Quote: | | It's basically avoiding the actual debate issue for the sake of a cop out argument tactic (as if being in the minority opinion somehow invalidates and nulls a person's argument)\ |
Do you even know the argument?
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MadMan400096
Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 266
Location: Chicopee, MA
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Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:03 pm
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Okay, seriously, how did this once innocent discussion about a schedule change turn into a heated argument over whether DBZ or Avatar is better? You trying to get this thread locked?
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R. Glover
Joined: 19 Jan 2013
Posts: 96
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:26 am
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And I found out just now that the English cast of DBZ Kai is also recording the Buu saga.
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R. Glover
Joined: 19 Jan 2013
Posts: 96
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Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:51 am
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| R. Glover wrote: | | And I found out just now that the English cast of DBZ Kai is also recording the Buu saga. |
And I just found out on my programming guide that Nicktoons will be airing DBZ movies starting this Saturday at 1p.
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R. Glover
Joined: 19 Jan 2013
Posts: 96
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Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:17 pm
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| R. Glover wrote: |
| R. Glover wrote: | | And I found out just now that the English cast of DBZ Kai is also recording the Buu saga. |
And I just found out on my programming guide that Nicktoons will be airing DBZ movies starting this Saturday at 1p. |
And Nicktoons has started airing promos of the latter.
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dragonrider_cody
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 2541
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Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:20 pm
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| TitanXL wrote: | | Here too? Really? I'm genuinely curious and maybe someone here can answer the question; what is about Avatar fans that makes them shoe-horn in their show into every tangibly-related topic on anime boards? I know why enurtsol did it in the other thread, because that's his pro-America posting style, but in a Dragonball thread now? What's the goal, exactly? |
Actually, if you look back at the posts, it was a poster who hated Avatar that brought it up.
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11G4GUNOT
Joined: 31 Mar 2012
Posts: 154
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Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:12 pm
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| R. Glover wrote: |
| R. Glover wrote: |
| R. Glover wrote: | | And I found out just now that the English cast of DBZ Kai is also recording the Buu saga. |
And I just found out on my programming guide that Nicktoons will be airing DBZ movies starting this Saturday at 1p. |
And Nicktoons has started airing promos of the latter. |
Guess what it's all TVY7FV and edited cannot wait for the irresponse of the 5th and final season and no middle fingers hurry up and end the nicktoons & Vortexx dragon ball z kai airing rights asap before i firin mah lazer for not being TVPG rated. LMFAO!
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R. Glover
Joined: 19 Jan 2013
Posts: 96
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Posted: Sat May 18, 2013 1:52 am
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Oh, and this weekend (5/18/2013-5/19/2013) is the last time the Dragon Ball franchise will be on Nicktoons after almost 3 years, because they'll be airing a rerun of Bardock: The Father of Goku, The History of Trunks, and Lord Slug, all starting at 11a. Seems Nicktoons realized their mistake of airing an hour of Yu-Gi-Oh! ZEXAL the same time as Vortexx (which is now officially an animation-only block, due to the removal of Power Rangers Lost Galaxy and WWE Saturday Morning Slam) airing Yu-Gi-Oh! and Yu-Gi-Oh! ZEXAL together. However, DBZ Kai will arrive on the upcoming Vortexx on Kabillion in July.
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