Forum - View topicNEWS: Madoka Magica & Fate/Zero's Urobuchi Plans Project for Kids
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Maidenoftheredhand
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But you keep ignoring the fact that what happened in episode 3 was made to be a big deal not just in the West but in Japan too. Heck just look at how innocent and benign Aniplex USA's trailer is for the series. And also all those things might have been hints that the series is darker but to say that they 100% meant spoiler[Mami would die, that the villain was the cute animal, and that Sayaka would turn into a witch] is ridiculous. The story could have had all those hints and STILL have been your typical magical girl save the day the story. Having dark undertones and having pretty much everything go wrong are two very different things. |
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zeo1fan
Posts: 1016 |
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Of course things went wrong. It's a tragedy. An accompanying sense of darkness was natural. And can you really call that character the villain when it wasn't even evil and what it was doing was totally necessary? |
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Maidenoftheredhand
Posts: 2633 |
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Okay yes hindsight is 20/20 But please don't try to pretend that they didn't play up what happened in episode 3 as a twist. |
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Tanteikingdomkey
 Posts: 2346 |
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Lets be fair the only time the D word came up in conan it was censored to high heaven especially the second time they animated the first episode. |
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Juno016
 Posts: 2381 |
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If you're talking about the English dub... then you're missing the point. The English dub was targeted towards an adult audience in the West because it was too violent for children's eyes. Thus, they added swear words and such in to make it more for adults, but censored them on television for the sake of television's rules in the West. In Japan, the series is more like a shounen anime, targeted towards children and adults alike. There are no "swear words" (or Japanese equivalents that aren't appropriate for children) and, though much of the examples Titan gave WERE censored on television or cut from broadcast (those are the DVD release screencaps), the DVD's themselves were still marketed towards children, as were the gadgets and such. Madoka, on the other hand, was targeted heavily toward a niche group of adults. It was not intended to be marketed towards mainstream children like Detective Conan is. However, once the property made a miraculous turnabout and hit the mainstream, and especially after the movies were released in theaters (at least, from my understanding and experience in Japan), Madoka became popular with both adults and children of all sorts. Evangelion, too, had a similar situation when it first came out. Madoka and Evangelionare both still targeted toward the adult otaku, first and foremost, but they do lower their reach for children and such on many occasions. I can definitely see Urobuchi writing something "dark" for children. I think I have a harder time believing that he can write something lighter and far more appropriate for children, but at the same time--especially after Madoka--he's been testing the waters for a lot of things, so I also see just about anything possible for him. |
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Polycell
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Juno016
Posts: 2381 |
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I would agree that only parts of Madoka feel like a tragedy. In a way, it's all one big tragedy until spoiler[Madoka comes in and thwarts the tragedy with hope, leaving the ending bittersweet, if not kinda happy.] However... to "deconstruct" something [usually] means to take common genre elements and "break them down" or subvert them in a way that creates an objective awareness of the role those elements play in the genre as a whole, and applies them to more "realistic" contexts.
That is, essentially, what Madoka does. Specifically, elements commonly found in the Magical Girl sub-genre, such as the "cute mascot," "magical transformation device," "wish-granting powers," "non-human weekly monsters" who are also "strictly evil," the "invincible main cast," "hope beats all" fighting philosophy, and "antagonistic rival"... among many others. In context, these things are "subverted" intentionally: The "Cute mascot" spoiler[is arguably considered the main antagonist of the series, leading to a questioning of why these unnatural-looking cute things are trusted so easily.] The "magical transformation device" spoiler[robs the characters of their surface humanity, leading to the awareness of the over-thought that these magical devices are almost always strictly used as toy advertisements rather than plot significance.] The "wish-granting powers" spoiler[bite the characters in the butt, which is a common deconstruction of anything wish-related.] The "strictly evil non-human weekly monsters" spoiler[are more than just filler monsters and far more than just plain evil. They literally are magical girls' final form, and their "plain evilness" comes from the fact that they're born out of the girls' despair, rather than being evil for the sake of having evil to fight, leading to the awareness that evil is usually not that full-of-depth in most MG shows.] The "invincible main cast" spoiler[dies. A lot. Naturally, too. It's not like it's the first to deconstruct this idea, but enough MG shows don't even touch it.] "Hope beats all" spoiler[is barely realistic, as this show proves until the end--though even then, Madoka makes a realistic recovery of hope, rather than one based on the whim of the creators for the sake of idealism.] And the "antagonistic rival" spoiler[not only becomes a protagonist, as is also common--she literally WAS a protagonist on the same side from the very beginning. Which deconstructs the idea that antagonistic characters are "bad" until they are "turned good."] There were elements, such as the "color-coded main team" and "pull weapons out of nowhere" tropes, that weren't explored as much (you can consider them misleading icing on the cake), but the number of deconstructions in Madoka make it a heavily self-aware deconstruction overall. At least, in the definition of "deconstruction" I used above. P.S. - If you want to talk more in-depth, we can PM each other. This is about as far as I will bring this thread off-topic, though. |
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zeo1fan
Posts: 1016 |
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'Magical Girl' and 'Tragedy' aren't mutually exclusive. Gen Urobuchi wrote a story, having been inspired by people who try to justify bringing terrible destruction and tragedy by acting in the name of "Justice" and trying to "Do the right thing" Are you kidding me? spoiler[ Madoka ultimately can't escape fate; she becomes a magical girl, becoming an entity consigned to do nothing but fight witches for all eternity, and then she's forced to destroy her own body and her existence is all but erased from the world, save for her brother and Homura. She fell, Sayaka falls, and Homura becomes a fallen hero (another trope of tragedy).] I'm convinced you're just being willfully ignorant at this point; are you even aware of what constitutes a tragedy? Are you aware of the significance of Madoka tapping into such a difficult, elusive form of storytelling? Who are you? [EDIT: Spoiler tags added. -TK] |
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zeo1fan
Posts: 1016 |
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Solely advertising Madoka as a 'Dark Magical Girl Show' is ultimately reductive of it. 'Dark' is not a measure of quality. Saying "it's just like another thing, but dark" significantly narrows its appeal. |
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Juno016
Posts: 2381 |
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First of all, please mark your spoilers! I agree that Madoka is full of tragedy, except for one minor point. For the ending, spoiler[despite Madoka's earthly existence being transfered to a "higher realm" of some sort. It is exactly what Madoka wanted and it brings about a bittersweet/happy conclusion, leaving little room for despair or tragedy to take hold in anyone except, just maybe, Homura. But she seems to be fine with it, as long as she can continue to fight on.] |
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zeo1fan
Posts: 1016 |
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Madoka made the best of an ending she couldn't avoid. Madoka seals the deal on being a tragedy in that regard as well because (surprise, surprise) a tragedy's ending is meant to be cathartic in one way or another. Madoka suffers a catastrophic fall, but it's cathartic. Even inspiring. Most people make the mistake of believing a tragic ending is inherently a sad one (How could a tragic ending be cathartic if it was wholly sad?). [/spoiler] |
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zeo1fan
Posts: 1016 |
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The nature of fiction can be a lot more complex than people give it credit for. As Hope Chapman noted, great modern tragedies are rather rare, so it can be hard for people to suss out when they've encountered one.
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 7580 Location: Wales |
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To be fair, when it was revealed that he was writing Madoka he pretended to have turned a new leaf - until episode 3 when he had to apologise. IIRC they had intended to keep his involvement in the show a secret; people were calling it "Chidamari Sketch" before it even aired. Like someone already implied - the head writer of Digimon Tamers is a huge Lovecraft fan whose previous works included Lain and later Narutaru. |
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zeo1fan
Posts: 1016 |
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Chiaki J. Konaka also wrote the scripts for Princess Tutu, another story subversive of the Magical Girl genre. 
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EmperorBrandon
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 2209 Location: Springfield, MO |
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For what it's worth, he only wrote the scripts of four episodes. The main writer of the series was Michiko Yokote. |
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