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Hey, Answerman! - Fandoms of Evil


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Covnam



Joined: 31 May 2005
Posts: 3629
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:11 am Reply with quote
In regards to the Flowers of Evil topic I went and skimmed through an episode and it didn't look very appealing visually. I haven't read the source material, so I can't compare it to that, but if I didn't know/recognize it as having been rotoscoped I'd probably think it was just poorly animated. I don't think that will stop me from watching it if I ever decide to, but at least visually it does not draw me.
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loka



Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:27 am Reply with quote
To say that Flowers of Evil would have been overlooked had it not been done in some unique style just tells others that you really have no idea what the source material is.

If you haven't read the source material, watch the whole show (if you can stomach it) before making such stupid statements.
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configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 3717
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:57 am Reply with quote
ProsesRoses wrote:
Que Rolling Eyes.

Light novels are basically Young Adult fiction with illustrations. You should be a writer first and get published here. If you sell well and become popular you can shop it around to comic publishers. Yen Press have hired western manga artists to adapt popular YA novels (James Patterson, Stephanie Meyer, etc). Learning how to be a good writer is whole other process and you should be reading other things besides manga.
Sorry but I scoff at trying to appeal to Japanese audiences or getting published there if you're not fluent. Despite any weeabo tendencies, you are a Westerner with western values and influences despite your love of manga and anime. Even those who grew up in an Asian-immigrant family or Japanese-immigrant living here would not get all the nuances of Japanese society and values (although they would fare better). That is not to say western books can't do well but it seems they are classics such as Anne of Gables or Monte Cristo (both turned into anime). But your novel is more likely to be translated if your books are popular and with a US publisher to pay for it.

It's hard but not impossible for artists to break into the Japanese scene themselves, rather than waiting for a Japanese publisher to import a US title. He can certainly immerse himself like some have done successfully.

See Felipe Smith, who lives and first published in Japan, then had his titles translated to English ironically enough:
animenewsnetwork.com/the-gallery/2009-05-09
http://manga.about.com/od/mangaartistinterviews/a/Interview-Felipe-Smith.htm
animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2010-11-19/daily-video/felipe-smith-advises-aspiring-manga-creators

In other fields like animation, there are also other foreign artists who work in the Japanese industry. Danny Choo has gotten into the biz independently, while being culturally attuned and successfully networking with others. See also how this girl got a job at Good Smile.

The questioner's ultimate goal is to get an anime produced, not just to publish a novel. If I understand him correctly the light novel route is just a means to getting the story animated. One way is the usual process of pitching, requiring lots of determination and effort, admittedly with little progress, if any.

He could become fluent, and truly immerse himself like some have done and that could ultimately pay off. Having a bilingual writer could be an asset for studios doing certain types of shows, not to mention being helping out in general, like with English clients or going on foreign trips for research.

Or, he could like Danny and other indie creators have done perhaps in addition to immersion, finance himself. Money overcomes lots of hurdles.
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ProsesRoses



Joined: 22 Mar 2013
Posts: 16
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:34 am Reply with quote
configspace

I'm well aware of Felipe Smith, thank you very much. Jaime, ex-assistant artist to New Prince of Tennis has a few posts on her experience in Japan on her blog too.

I was replying if he/she wanted to take the light novel route to manga. If she/he was to do animation (producing, writing) that's a whole other route that I wasn't really commentating on.

I like OEL manga. I admire efforts when artists make their own and take inspiration from manga/anime and not simply copy a style and use Japanese names only and put it in Tokyo! (fictionpress.com - a prose writing website has a section for MANGA , like wtf manga is a visual medium not a prose one - basically its prose stories with characters who have Japanese names - *facepalm*)

Honestly the people who say "I want to be FAMOUS in Japan" or "Make Anime and Manga" just rub me as Japophiles who do not know the reality of hardships and the mountain (culturally and linguistically) they have to climb. They think they KNOW Japan just by reading manga/anime.

Why can't you work in the West and be famous here? We have a comics industry too, and it's not just superheroes. That is a very superficial look at comics industry. There are plenty of indie comic publishers that don't do superheroes. I'm not gonna say much about western animation industry except that it's not very good, the only exception being Avatar (seriously why aren't more shows popping up to be like it?).

If that person is truly bilingual, sure helpful, but Japan has it's own GIANT talent pool who attend school geared specifically to their medium.

I can imagine if this person learns to speak Japanese AND go to anime/manga University there, probably have a good as a chance as a Japanese person doing the same.
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 9322
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:08 am Reply with quote
StormSky92 wrote:
To summarize my feelings about this: Everything is so driven by sales to the hardcore otaku market, that it kills a chance for a real innovative and different series to be made. No companies are willing to risk something new. Everything is just made for an easy sale, and that's it. Yeah, I know companies just want to make money, but I still hate it.


I'm not sure how it can be fixed otherwise. You'd have to appeal to the mainstream, and that means getting onto daytime slots. You can't do that with an anime that's only going to run 1 or 2 cours. So your only method is to advertise on latenight slots, that the studio/producers have to pay for, and then hope the show sells BDs and other merchandise. You either have to change the system, or stop making shorter anime.
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v1cious



Joined: 31 Dec 2002
Posts: 6199
Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:31 am Reply with quote
I like Flowers of Evil's style just for the fact that it pisses off moe fans. Nice to watch them cringe in fear at the site of an actual woman.
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Sylontack



Joined: 09 Apr 2011
Posts: 193
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:41 am Reply with quote
EDIT: Disregard~

Last edited by Sylontack on Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4036
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:41 am Reply with quote
ProsesRoses wrote:
Why can't you work in the West and be famous here? We have a comics industry too, and it's not just superheroes. That is a very superficial look at comics industry. There are plenty of indie comic publishers that don't do superheroes.


Because they don't sell very well. Marvel and DC dominate the charts and the only non-cape thing that comes close is Walking Dead because it got lucky and got popular from a live-action TV adaption. And honestly not even Marvel and DC sell that well. The average comic sells 70K, and compared to the millions who read Weekly Shounen Jump alone that's not very much. Cartoons are treated even worse than comics as you mentioned. Simply saying "we have comics/cartoons too" doesn't address the heart of the matter of why people want to move to Japan to make their own stuff. They're entirely different markets and regulations.
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EireformContinent



Joined: 30 May 2009
Posts: 977
Location: Łódź/Poland (The Promised Land)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:55 am Reply with quote
So? If someone wants to tell the story, he will do it regardless of prognosis of potential sales. Because what amuses me in that "be published in Japan" craze is the fact that the story itself seem to be the very last thing they think about. Do you have anything to present to hypothetical publisher? Savin Yeatman-Eiffel spend 9 years for looking for support for Oban Star Racers, but he had a trailer and a script to begin with. Writers, comic books artists, directors don't go to publishers/producers empty handed.

It would be good to approach Japanese publishers with something write in language they publish in. So you must be fluent enough to supervise your translator (and good translators cost), because people fluent enough in foreign language to write in it (Conrad, Nabokov, Potocki) were taught early in childhood and had been used it everyday for most of their live, before they started to publish.
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Mikeski



Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Posts: 608
Location: Minneapolis, MN
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:56 pm Reply with quote
v1cious wrote:
I like Flowers of Evil's style just for the fact that it pisses off moe fans. Nice to watch them cringe in fear at the site of an actual woman.



...suddenly, I'm quite glad I don't live in Fresno, Texas. (The girls here in Minnesota have lips and noses, at least...)

The only thing about the Aku no Hana dust-up that surprises me is how moderate it's been. I seem to remember a lot more flamewars about the K-On-ification of Haruhi for season 2, and that was 1/10th the change this was. (Maybe anti-moe fans are just louder than pro-moe ones?)


Last edited by Mikeski on Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:14 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Mikeski



Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Posts: 608
Location: Minneapolis, MN
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:07 pm Reply with quote
StormSky92 wrote:
(and I never said anything about moe. I love KyoAni. I can't help it.)

My apologies. I took "high-school, big-breasted girl, fan service comedy" in your original post to be synonymous.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:46 pm Reply with quote
Brian wrote:
Instead, the crew at ZEXCS tried something unique, pissed a lot of people off, and in the middle of the fracas, caught *my* attention doing it. I'll consider that a success in its own right.
Which proves yet again that there is no such thing as "bad publicity" Laughing

As for play-per-view. there is one problem with that concept. Not every fan even has a games console, let alone watching their anime on it. So yeah it might be cheaper for the studios and distributors, but it's an awfully shallow puddle to be fishing for profits in and it could dry up at anytime. They shouldn't be putting all their eggs in one basket going by short term results, it's much too early for that.
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EnigmaticSky



Joined: 06 Aug 2011
Posts: 750
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:41 pm Reply with quote
I don't care for the aesthetic of Flowers of Evil, but I don't hate it with a passion. I am all for trying something new in anime, but I don't think it pulled it off very successfully. The rotoscoping itself looks cheaply done too. I wouldn't mind there being one series that looks like it, but I hope there isn't more. That being said I haven't seen the series yet, beyond a couple clips to get an idea of the hubbub for the animation, but if it is a good series then it is a good series. The preview guide made it sound like a quality show in every other sense, so I am eagre to watch it myself when the series is complete and I can watch it at once. If animation were the only reason to watch something, there would be no point of watching really old anime that are otherwise incredible like Lain and Evangelion. I'm not saying FoE is incredible, I haven't watched it yet, but if you can get past it and find a great show then try not to let it hold you back. If it is bad in every other sense though as well, then people will have a genuine reason to call it awful, terrible, etc as a whole.

In regards to the buying all anime digitally thing, I don't really get it. I would much rather physically own every series I buy; if not I may as well just watch it on Netflix or Hulu. It also just feels more satisfying to hold the case and everything in your hand, open up the package, read through any inserts, watch special features and so on. I don't know, I guess that's just me.

In regards to the imports, I haven't myself yet, but I intend to import the Gurren Lagann bluray. It will be my first ever anime import, but it is one of my favorite series, and it does have a very lavish release. I figure I can budget for it a little bit and then use birthday money to pay for half of it. My friend was thinking of doing the same, but not opening his and selling it after the the LE is sold out for an even more insane price to pay for both of ours. Anime hyper We will both get to enjoy my set in college since we will be roommates. Besides, I figured I may as well get one really nice thing before I head off on my own; end my final year of highschool with a bang before being broke for a couple years.
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Fanclub



Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:20 am Reply with quote
If people don't like the look of rotoscoping that's fine. It's not like we get even one rotoscoped anime per year really, so I don't know why people bother to fuss when for one season one show out of thirty-odd uses that animation technique.

I like it. I wouldn't like it if every show used this technique. I appreciate that the director thought very seriously about his intentions with this show and decided to use rotoscoping for the animation. I like to think about what he is trying to impart to viewers in doing so - why did he make this choice? I like to see anime directors toying with the main aspect of the medium for creative purposes.I want to know why he chose that up-beat intro music with ugly lyrics to juxtapose every other urge the show has. For a lot of anime fans, I think having at least one different/unusual show is a god send.

I like a lot of other anime too. Isn't it nice though, that you can watch a high school show like Chihayafuru (or is this a sports show >_>) and another high school show like Aku no Hana and be left with such an entirely different impression?
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TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4036
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:00 am Reply with quote
EireformContinent wrote:
So? If someone wants to tell the story, he will do it regardless of prognosis of potential sales.


Well he did specify "get famous" so lots of sales help with that

EnigmaticSky wrote:
That being said I haven't seen the series yet, beyond a couple clips to get an idea of the hubbub for the animation, but if it is a good series then it is a good series. The preview guide made it sound like a quality show in every other sense, so I am eagre to watch it myself when the series is complete and I can watch it at once. If animation were the only reason to watch something, there would be no point of watching really old anime that are otherwise incredible like Lain and Evangelion. I'm not saying FoE is incredible, I haven't watched it yet, but if you can get past it and find a great show then try not to let it hold you back. If it is bad in every other sense though as well, then people will have a genuine reason to call it awful, terrible, etc as a whole.


If animation isn't a factor for you you may as well just read the manga then. The anime won't reach the best scene in the manga at the pace it's going (1 chapter = 1 episode) and it's definitely not going to get enough sales for a second season. If all someone cares about is the story then the manga is the more logical approach.
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