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GiriOni



Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 218
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:58 pm Reply with quote
Ah! That reminds me of the robe. The robe blowing to pieces is inconsistent. Although later it's played off as just falling apart at the seams. Total fanservice troupe, so I ignore it when talking about the serious side.

Also, Touma is a mystery. The author established him as a mystery, and in the end when faced with non-esper/magic powers he's just a fighting delinquent without any real powers(or so we think). His power isn't supposed to make sense in his surroundings, it's just juxtaposition.

It feels like you're restricting the series to follow something like Knox's Ten Commandments.
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rinkwolf10



Joined: 05 Apr 2009
Posts: 750
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:07 pm Reply with quote
@Fencedude5609

Please refer to my previous comment.
Quote:
Just think about this rationally, you are arguing about the "logic" of a novel about superpower teens and their endeavors.


What were you expecting form this? It's a adaption of practically a comic, not a prize winning novel. On top of which, last I check Index was classified in the Action, Magic, Sci-Fi, and Super Power genres. I don't remember it being classified in the Physiological or Thriller genres. If you measure it as such, then I'm sure it will fall short of your expectations. But, if you judge it in genres that it's actually classified in then you will see that it meets expectations. Just because you think the show trying to accomplish something that it isn't, doesn't mean the shows sucks because it doesn't meet your expectations in a field it didn't even set out to satisfy.

Fencedude5609 wrote:
Rinkwolf wrote:
.... I surprised this is till going on. I mean like most have started this is ANIME, half the time if not almost all the time things don't make sense and have plot holes. Why do people get so anal about Index in question.


A) This isn't true

B) If it were, it would be horrible.


Sorry to burst you bubble, but yes it is true. It especially plagues action anime.

Code Geass was awesome but it had many plot holes and inconsistent.

Heck, even a award winning book/story like Lord of the Rings has inconsistencies. It was fantasy not a Documentary. As is Index. Why reads to much between the lines. Just step back and enjoy the painting and don't put it under a microscope to find all the cracks.

Also the plot twist of Touma's spoiler[memory loss] is different because he never gets it back, unlike 99% if all the other stories that use it.

The aspect of Accelerator being a actually "good guy" is a overly used one, but it's the execution that matters and in Index they did it well, at least from my perspective. On top of which, it's not like he changes his actions or what he did, he is still an ass but you look at him in a different light. While, most other stories change the character to fit how we are supposed to view him after such revelations. Index doesn't do that. Accelerator still stays accelerator (bat shit crazy) after we learn more about him. It's our view point of him that changes, not him or his character. That is why I think it was a good execution. It's like finding out how to use a tool properly even after you assumed you already knew everything about it because you was been exposed to similar tools before.

Both those elements are used a lot in anime. Thus, the only difference in Index is the execution and the impact that it carries.

Of the many flaw that you so graciously pointed out about Index, execution of plot elements in not one of them.


Last edited by rinkwolf10 on Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:41 pm; edited 10 times in total
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Kastel



Joined: 19 Apr 2013
Posts: 170
Location: Chicago
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:12 pm Reply with quote
goddammit leave us alone we just want to appreciate index as an Anime not as some kind of Art
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Mikeski



Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Posts: 608
Location: Minneapolis, MN
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:27 pm Reply with quote
DissonanceCog wrote:
Mikeski wrote:
The absence of any possible compelling explanation is rather the point. Wink


Oh, the point is that it was poorly written? Okay, good. Didn't know we were agreeing on that. Smile
Consistent laws of magic are difficult to resolve with consistent laws of physics. So if you expect it to be written as an encyclopedia is written, you will find it poor. If you expect it to be written as a silver-age superhero comic is written, you will find it... less poor.
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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5088
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:48 pm Reply with quote
Rinkwolf wrote:


Of the many flaw that you so graciously pointed out about Index, execution of plot elements in not one of them.


Actually, my big problem with Index is the execution of its plot elements.

On their own, each component is fairly reasonable and could be used to tell a good, entertaining story.

The problem is Kamachi's a hack and can't use these elements very well, so it ends up just being a complete mess.
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rinkwolf10



Joined: 05 Apr 2009
Posts: 750
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:08 pm Reply with quote
Fencedude5609 wrote:
Rinkwolf wrote:


Of the many flaw that you so graciously pointed out about Index, execution of plot elements in not one of them.


Actually, my big problem with Index is the execution of its plot elements.

On their own, each component is fairly reasonable and could be used to tell a good, entertaining story.

The problem is Kamachi's a hack and can't use these elements very well, so it ends up just being a complete mess.


That might be the difference between me and you. I watched Index as separate stories told in one show about a set group of characters and side characters involved in each story. I was able to enjoy it that way. But, that is just me.

Also, when watching in this form, there were it's own benefits. like side characters getting fleshed out, like Motoharu in the visiting the beach arc with everyone being someone else. Index Touma's mother, Makoto his younger cousin. That arc was a riot. As well as the getting to know more about the loli teacher in the first Index arc.
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Basroil



Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 67
Location: North Carolina
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:50 pm Reply with quote
So Andrew, you're the other person that owns a set of Miami Guns DVDs.
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Melicans



Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Posts: 394
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:15 pm Reply with quote
I'm thrilled that my favourite anime, Denpa Onna, was rated shelf-worthy; particularly because my tastes are often divergent from Bamboo's. Those who lost interest after the third or fourth episode really need to take a second look at it. Erio isn't what the series is about. She may be the star, but ultimately the series is a journey of philosophy, not crazy girls in futons.
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
Team GurrenTeam Gurren


Joined: 20 Apr 2009
Posts: 3309
Location: Bellevue, WA
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:34 pm Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:

There are no real middle-aged women in Anime. They're either this gorgeous mother who looks in her twenties, or they have some wrinkles and look like they are about to reach retirement age.

There's that ex-opera-lady contractor from Darker Than Black. I think she qualifies as middle-aged (and her payment sucked). So... uh... there's a least one in anime-dom. Razz
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ANN_Bamboo
ANN Contributor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 3903
Location: The OC
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:39 am Reply with quote
Look, I love science, and I am usually That Gal who loves to point out scientific inconsistencies in fiction, but the second someone uttered, "esper," I pretty much thought, "WELP, not gonna pry too hard at this one." If a show is going to give me Magic vs. Science, it'd better be some actual, freaking hard science, governed by thermodynamic principles, or it's all just magic and leprechauns to me. Which is pretty much how I feel about everything in Index, which is fine.

BTW, regarding the robe being blown up and losing its power, the way I took it was that it was the cloth itself that was magical, not specifically the "robe" itself as a whole garment. But once he touched it, it just turned into ordinary, everyday cloth.

Once I finish out the rest of CMI s1, I'm going to check out CSR. I'm looking forward to comparing the two.
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DissonanceCog



Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 11
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:10 am Reply with quote
Mikeski wrote:
DissonanceCog wrote:
Mikeski wrote:
The absence of any possible compelling explanation is rather the point. Wink


Oh, the point is that it was poorly written? Okay, good. Didn't know we were agreeing on that. Smile
Consistent laws of magic are difficult to resolve with consistent laws of physics. So if you expect it to be written as an encyclopedia is written, you will find it poor. If you expect it to be written as a silver-age superhero comic is written, you will find it... less poor.


Honestly, when I look at the show, I can completely understand your POV, and really am of two minds of whether it's the proper way to watch it. Like, on some level, it really DOES feel like it wants me to take it seriously on that consistent approach, and thus on some level it's hard to not approach it in the sense of "the way an encyclopedia is written".

On the other hand, it's a show about espers and this guy who can cancel out their powers with his magic hand. So... how far should I really take it? Should I really be cynically picking it apart on that scientific basis, or should I just take it as "Okay, this is a fiction, and although certain parts I should take somewhat seriously, I can't go TOO far".

So on a pure- just watching the show level, that part of Index really doesn't bother me that much. (It does have various other problems, but that's another issue). But when it comes to just objective critique, it's really hard for that first part to not kind of creep out into my POV.
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Alan45
Village ElderVillage Elder


Joined: 25 Aug 2010
Posts: 8527
Location: Virginia
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:57 am Reply with quote
@Basroil

Actually that would make three copies out in the wild. Still haven't managed to watch more than a couple of episodes though.
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Zalis116
Moderator


Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 6441
Location: Kazune City
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:03 pm Reply with quote
Shameless plug time!
Andrew wrote:
As I am getting ready to move again, this time to Omaha for a new job,
If you want to meet other anime fans in the Omaha area, feel free to check out this event that I happen to be a part of. The convention's in November, but we often hold community events during the year. Or at least we would, if this lingering Nebraska winter would ever end...

As for Index/Railgun, I've found that watching them for the fanservice, the girls, and the yuri interactions between Kuroko and Mikoto makes the scientific/plot inconsistencies not matter as much.
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Blood-



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 20224
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:17 pm Reply with quote
Alan45 wrote:
@Basroil

Actually that would make three copies out in the wild. Still haven't managed to watch more than a couple of episodes though.


Four. Wow, there's virtually an army of us. I've only seen the first eppie of Vol. 1. Doesn't look like the title is gonna be a classic, that's for sure.
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