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Fencedude5609
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5088
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 Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:01 pm
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| zeo1fan wrote: |
I didn't say it wasn't ambitious. Jesus.  I'm basically having two different conversations here. |
But you apparently have no understanding of either.
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zeo1fan
Joined: 02 Sep 2011
Posts: 1016
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:09 pm
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| AbZeroNow wrote: |
| zeo1fan wrote: | |
So, I've been reiterating that a "show about nothing" can save itself through characters and themes. And nobody seems to pay attention when I cite Louie as a positive example of this. K-On is a prime example of bundled quirks planted in a show about nothing for the sake of making money and spawning derivative pieces. At least K-On had KyoAni's stimulus going for it.
<snipped>
Simply one of these pieces couldn't realistically sustain a good story on its own, the same way a story can't be sustained on Pathos, Ethos, or Logos alone. |
K-ON had Pathos in some episodes. You can't tell me that the episode when Ui got sick and Yui had to actually do more things for herself, and realizing that people sometimes take for granted what it most precious to them wasn't emotionally moving. That episode also is where "U + Me" was written. Also that moment where Azusa pleads for her four sempais not to graduate.
There were also lots of small heartwarming moments as Mio slowly came more into her own, and where she finally let go of the serious facade during the Kyoto trip.
Again, there is no requirement of external forces needing to drive the story along(what we would call plot) for it to be good storytelling. It sounds like more like that you don't like the Slice of Life genre. And that comes down to a matter of personal taste. |
It's not that I dislike the Slice-Of-Life genre. I wouldn't be a fan of 'Louie' if I did. You confuse 'external force' with 'drive'.
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Fencedude5609
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5088
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:10 pm
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| zeo1fan wrote: | |
It's not that I dislike the Slice-Of-Life genre. I wouldn't be a fan of 'Louie' if I did. You confuse 'external force' with 'drive'. |
Do you have any examples of anything except for Louie? Also 100% positive its not in the same genre as K-On
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Parse Error
Joined: 09 Oct 2009
Posts: 592
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:19 pm
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| zeo1fan wrote: | | I'm referring to fare like 'Ground Control To Psycho-electric Girl' or 'Sasami-San@Ganbaranai'. |
The problem with those would be, their purpose was to advertise light novels. There's nothing wrong with that, of course, but such adaptations are just the anime studios interacting with the broader ecosystem of businesses.
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zeo1fan
Joined: 02 Sep 2011
Posts: 1016
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:29 pm
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| Parse Error wrote: |
| zeo1fan wrote: | | I'm referring to fare like 'Ground Control To Psycho-electric Girl' or 'Sasami-San@Ganbaranai'. |
The problem with those would be, their purpose was to advertise light novels. There's nothing wrong with that, of course, but such adaptations are just the anime studios interacting with the broader ecosystem of businesses. |
At least Shinbo seems to genuinely enjoy his work, then.
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zeo1fan
Joined: 02 Sep 2011
Posts: 1016
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:30 pm
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| Fencedude5609 wrote: |
| zeo1fan wrote: | |
It's not that I dislike the Slice-Of-Life genre. I wouldn't be a fan of 'Louie' if I did. You confuse 'external force' with 'drive'. |
Do you have any examples of anything except for Louie? Also 100% positive its not in the same genre as K-On |
Louie is much more real than K-On (not just in the sense that it's live-action). I thought we were having a discussion and you're insulting me; that's off-putting. Please be more civil.
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Fencedude5609
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5088
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:36 pm
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| zeo1fan wrote: | |
Louie is much more real than K-On (not just in the sense that it's live-action). I thought we were having a discussion and you're insulting me; that's off-putting. Please be more civil. |
Answer my [expletive] question.
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zeo1fan
Joined: 02 Sep 2011
Posts: 1016
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:45 pm
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| Fencedude5609 wrote: |
| zeo1fan wrote: | |
Louie is much more real than K-On (not just in the sense that it's live-action). I thought we were having a discussion and you're insulting me; that's off-putting. Please be more civil. |
Answer my [expletive] question. |
I've also been fond of Bamboo Blade, Azumanga Daioh, and Seinfeld. It's not a genre I venture into often, but I'm not opposed to it.
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Fencedude5609
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5088
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:46 pm
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| zeo1fan wrote: | |
I've also been fond of Bamboo Blade, Azumanga Daioh, and Seinfeld. It's not a genre I venture into often, but I'm not opposed to it. |
No, I am asking you to make specific criticisms of a specific show.
If you cannot demonstrate that your criticisms of K-On are valid, then why should we even listen to you?
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Parse Error
Joined: 09 Oct 2009
Posts: 592
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:19 pm
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| zeo1fan wrote: | | At least Shinbo seems to genuinely enjoy his work, then. |
I'm sure he does, but now you have me wondering, what's your opinion on Hidamari Sketch?
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musouka
Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 707
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:38 pm
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| RyanSaotome wrote: | |
These kinds of premises are what the main anime fanbase wants. Aka, the people who actually fund the industry. The people who prefer different stuff never buy anime so they don't make stuff they're interested in too often. |
Are they really?
It seems to me that shows like this are a moderate success with the people they're aimed at--which is why they keep getting made--but they're almost never the "blockbuster" of a season. On the other hand, people that have gone on to make things with a different aesthetic seem to either hit it out of the park (Tiger & Bunny) or bomb hard (From the New World).
I understand that a return without the risk of complete failure--though I'm sure New World moved a decent amount of books, so perhaps the production company is fine with how it all worked out--can be alluring in its own right, but that hardly means it's attractive to the majority of the buying public.
It might be nice to imagine your tastes are in line with "what Japan wants", but I think the real situation is more complex than that.
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RyanSaotome
Joined: 29 Mar 2011
Posts: 4210
Location: Towson, Maryland
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:44 pm
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| musouka wrote: |
| RyanSaotome wrote: | |
These kinds of premises are what the main anime fanbase wants. Aka, the people who actually fund the industry. The people who prefer different stuff never buy anime so they don't make stuff they're interested in too often. |
Are they really?
It seems to me that shows like this are a moderate success with the people they're aimed at--which is why they keep getting made--but they're almost never the "blockbuster" of a season. On the other hand, people that have gone on to make things with a different aesthetic seem to either hit it out of the park (Tiger & Bunny) or bomb hard (From the New World). |
The best sellers of the last 3 seasons:
Summer 2012: Sword Art Online
Fall 2012: Girls und Panzer
Winter 2013: Love Live
None of them are incredibly "unique", and they all are really aimed at otaku.
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Fencedude5609
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5088
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:48 pm
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| RyanSaotome wrote: | |
The best sellers of the last 3 seasons:
Summer 2012: Sword Art Online
Fall 2012: Girls und Panzer
Winter 2013: Love Live
None of them are incredibly "unique", and they all are really aimed at otaku. |
They are also three incredibly different types of shows.
Those three shows have effectively nothing in common. At all.
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musouka
Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 707
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:58 pm
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| RyanSaotome wrote: | |
None of them are incredibly "unique", and they all are really aimed at otaku. |
So you're saying that a show about an MMO, girls operating tanks, and girls becoming idols to save their schools are not only intrinsically similar, but also the same as a show about "we go straight home after school instead of participating in clubs".
I mean, I guess they all have a diverse female cast, but even then comparison is pretty nuts, tbh.
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zeo1fan
Joined: 02 Sep 2011
Posts: 1016
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:00 pm
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| Parse Error wrote: |
| zeo1fan wrote: | | At least Shinbo seems to genuinely enjoy his work, then. |
I'm sure he does, but now you have me wondering, what's your opinion on Hidamari Sketch? |
I haven't seen it, but I know the characters were designed by Ume Aoki and I respect her. 
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