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NEWS: New Sailor Moon Anime Delayed


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zeo1fan



Joined: 02 Sep 2011
Posts: 967

PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 11:44 am Reply with quote
Snomaster1 wrote:
I've been hearing a lot of attacks on how DIC/Cloverway dubbed "Sailor Moon" into English. I'm here to defend that. "Sailor Moon" has been marketed toward young girls at seven years of age. I can see why it would be edited in such a manner. Also,they have the parents to consider. Many of them feel that the culture is trying to undermine the values that they teach their kids. And they don't want their kids watching things that are too violent or controversial.
They don't want their kids traumatized by seeing their favorite superheroes die or wondering why one woman is in love with another woman or a guy is in love with another guy. While I agree that Japanese culture is different than American culture,I think that it should be done in a way that it's acceptable in our culture.

I suspect that many of the people attacking the dub aren't parents themselves. Maybe if they were,they'd feel differently. I'm not a parent myself but I can understand their feelings. I'm not faulting DIC/Cloverway for doing the best they could do under the circumstances. There are plenty of unedited material of "Sailor Moon" for those that want to watch it out there. There are uncut "Sailor Moon" DVDs out on Ebay and Amazon for those that want them and there's also Youtube and other places like that that have "Sailor Moon" unedited. I wish those people who criticize the way DIC and Cloverway did their English dub would consider the feelings of parents who don't want their child's innocence taken away simply because an angry group of selfish fanboys and girls feel that their favorite anime wasn't done their way.
One of the hardest lessons to learn in life is you can't always have everything you want. Even I have had problems learning that lesson. I wish that those who criticize the way that DIC/Cloverway did their dub of "Sailor Moon" consider how parents feel. And I wish they would because one day,these people are going to be parents and they might feel differently when they have kids than they do now.


Setting aside the fact that official material rates Sailor Moon at being 13+ (at least the manga), a lot of kids actually like violent programming. There's really nothing like seeing your favorite heroes charging into battle against weird, hideous monsters and saving the day. Kids should be challenged and their intelligence should be respected; it's how they grow and develop. Children are weird, gross, nasty little critters with lots of energy; there should be less of a focus on preserving what they don't have and more of a focus on enriching them as you ease them into adulthood. The desire for an uncensored dub is wholly valid; the Sailor Moon anime was influential, historically significant and it had some talented auteurs behind it (Ikuko Itoh, Kunihiko Ikuhara, Junichi Sato). The fact that it didn't talk down to its young audience is one of the reasons it stands out today and part of the reason it retains its watchability. What exactly are you worried about from the original? That the characters died (Happened in Transformers)? That there are gay characters (happened in Paranorman)? That there's violence in a show for girls and you'd have a harder time engendering them as a result (gender is a meaningless institution anyway)? It seems as though this is more about what you're personally uncomfortable with than what's good for your kids (Sailor Moon Uncensored is bad for children? Hogwash).
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zeo1fan



Joined: 02 Sep 2011
Posts: 967

PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 11:53 am Reply with quote
Snomaster1 wrote:
I've been hearing a lot of attacks on how DIC/Cloverway dubbed "Sailor Moon" into English. I'm here to defend that. "Sailor Moon" has been marketed toward young girls at seven years of age. I can see why it would be edited in such a manner. Also,they have the parents to consider. Many of them feel that the culture is trying to undermine the values that they teach their kids. And they don't want their kids watching things that are too violent or controversial.
They don't want their kids traumatized by seeing their favorite superheroes die or wondering why one woman is in love with another woman or a guy is in love with another guy. While I agree that Japanese culture is different than American culture,I think that it should be done in a way that it's acceptable in our culture.

I suspect that many of the people attacking the dub aren't parents themselves. Maybe if they were,they'd feel differently. I'm not a parent myself but I can understand their feelings. I'm not faulting DIC/Cloverway for doing the best they could do under the circumstances. There are plenty of unedited material of "Sailor Moon" for those that want to watch it out there. There are uncut "Sailor Moon" DVDs out on Ebay and Amazon for those that want them and there's also Youtube and other places like that that have "Sailor Moon" unedited. I wish those people who criticize the way DIC and Cloverway did their English dub would consider the feelings of parents who don't want their child's innocence taken away simply because an angry group of selfish fanboys and girls feel that their favorite anime wasn't done their way.
One of the hardest lessons to learn in life is you can't always have everything you want. Even I have had problems learning that lesson. I wish that those who criticize the way that DIC/Cloverway did their dub of "Sailor Moon" consider how parents feel. And I wish they would because one day,these people are going to be parents and they might feel differently when they have kids than they do now.


I missed your top paragraph. This is 2013 and the gay romance of Sailor Moon is tastefully done; let go of your homophobia. Your kids are going to grow up knowing what gay people are (might even be gay themselves). If you can't accept that, then you kind of sound like a terrible parent. I remember trying to come out to my Mom and when she didn't initially accept me I spiraled. In any event, trying to suppress your kids will only cause them to rebel faster.
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TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4036

PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 4:41 pm Reply with quote
zeo1fan wrote:
Setting aside the fact that official material rates Sailor Moon at being 13+ (at least the manga)


In America, maybe. The original was shoujo and aimed at 7 year old girls

Quote:
What exactly are you worried about from the original? That the characters died (Happened in Transformers)?


Lifeless robots don't exactly count, to be fair. That tends to be the cop out answer for violence in western animation.

Quote:
That there are gay characters (happened in Paranorman)?


A one-off joke line isn't really comparable to major characters in a homosexual relationship.

But I agree Sailor Moon is fine for kids uncensored. Back in the 80s we watched horror movies as kids, and in this day kids play M rated games like Call of Duty. Kids handle these things fine I'd say.
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zeo1fan



Joined: 02 Sep 2011
Posts: 967

PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 5:02 pm Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
zeo1fan wrote:
Setting aside the fact that official material rates Sailor Moon at being 13+ (at least the manga)


In America, maybe. The original was shoujo and aimed at 7 year old girls

Quote:
What exactly are you worried about from the original? That the characters died (Happened in Transformers)?


Lifeless robots don't exactly count, to be fair. That tends to be the cop out answer for violence in western animation.

Quote:
That there are gay characters (happened in Paranorman)?


A one-off joke line isn't really comparable to major characters in a homosexual relationship.

But I agree Sailor Moon is fine for kids uncensored. Back in the 80s we watched horror movies as kids, and in this day kids play M rated games like Call of Duty. Kids handle these things fine I'd say.


According to ANN, the manga was aimed at middle schoolers. Just because they're aliens doesn't mean they aren't alive. I'm not going to dignify that with a response on the grounds that the fear of discussing homosexuality with children is ludicrous. It's biology; people seem to suffer from the misconception that homosexuality means discussing sex when really, you just tell a kid there are boys who love boys and girls who love girls and they accept it. The end.

Though I will supplement my earlier response with another: recall the horse that drowned to death in "Never-ending Story" or Mufasa's death in "The Lion King". Also, when did I say it wasn't Shoujo?
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mistressjaskra



Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 10:56 pm Reply with quote
Cutiebunny wrote:
My thoughts are simple - 5 Sailor Moon seasons have already been released. That's four seasons more than was originally planned on being released in the 1990s, and four more seasons than most anime productions get. If no more Sailor Moon anime is released, I'll live. I still have 200 episodes that I can view any day of the week, and a lot of production artwork in my collection that I can happily view anytime as well.


What I'm looking for in this "remake" is an animated version of the manga. Though I watched it back in the day as a kid I recognize the grindy format of the anime for what it is. If they're going to design it the same way I don't care about a remake. If they're going to do like they did with Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood then I'm all for the remake and have no problem waiting so that I get the *quality* vs quantity out of it.
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Snomaster1
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Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 2:00 am Reply with quote
Gee,zeo1fan. You say that just because I'd like kids to have a childhood without introducing them to things that most parents would have extreme difficulty explaining to them at a young age makes me homophobic. I think you missed my point. We're talking about seven year old boys and girls. They don't have a real mature view of the world. Scarring them emotionally isn't going to help them any.
As I've explained before and will continue to explain,I have no problem with homosexuals and lesbians. I just think that there are some things that can wait until they're older. Telling them about homosexuality at such an early age will confuse kids who've had little exposure to it and parents of those kids are going to have a hard time explaining it to them.

If you want to know a little about me,zeo1fan,I'd be happy to explain myself to you. I was born in 1974,a time in which homosexuality and lesbianism were rarely portrayed in any medium. And most certainly,not to the extent we see today. Despite what you said,I have no kids of my own. But I understand how those who do have kids feel. They want to protect their kids from bad influences and things they're not ready for. Stuff like homosexuality and lesbianism are simply things that in American culture are things that for the most part things that kids aren't ready to learn about yet.
And,I'm not the only one who feels that way,zeo1fan. Many others do as well. I'm not among those who quibble with the way that the "Sailor Moon" dub done by DIC and Cloverway. I just wish that people like you would put yourselves in our shoes. You simply attack us as homophobes,when that may not be the truth at all. There are different types of kids. There are kids that can handle mature stuff and kids that can't.

I don't know what the new "Sailor Moon" anime will be like. Nobody outside of Toei Animation does. Many of my views might be considered old-fashioned by a lot of people including you,and I make no bones about that. Calling me homophobic because you don't like what I have to say is very disrespectful. I've never attacked anyone because they were homosexual or lesbian. Please don't attack me because I feel that maybe,just maybe,kids should learn about some things at a later date. Exposing them to things like homosexuality and lesbianism when they're not ready for it is wrong. I don't care what your sexuality is.
I've never attacked anyone because they were homosexual or lesbian. But,I don't like being labeled a homophobe because I'm leery about kids learning about things when they're not ready for it or they're not mature enough to handle it.


Last edited by Snomaster1 on Thu May 09, 2013 4:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 6168
Location: Wales

PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 2:00 pm Reply with quote
zeo1fan wrote:
TitanXL wrote:
In America, maybe. The original was shoujo and aimed at 7 year old girls

According to ANN, the manga was aimed at middle schoolers.

ANN has no "middle schooler" rating, only "objectional content" which is derived from a western perspective.
Sailor Moon was originally serialised in Nakayoshi, which is a Shoujo anthology, making the target readership young girls probably around the elementary (shougakkou) to middle school (chuugakkou) age range.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 7484
Location: England, UK

PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 2:05 pm Reply with quote
Shiroi Hane wrote:
zeo1fan wrote:
TitanXL wrote:
In America, maybe. The original was shoujo and aimed at 7 year old girls

According to ANN, the manga was aimed at middle schoolers.

ANN has no "middle schooler" rating, only "objectional content" which is derived from a western perspective.
Sailor Moon was originally serialised in Nakayoshi, which is a Shoujo anthology, making the target readership young girls probably around the elementary (shougakkou) to middle school (chuugakkou) age range.
This is all academic anyway, It should be common knowledge that what the Japanese school girls get to see is no way similar to what they are in Judeo/Christian/Islamic dominated cultures. In short what they get away with there, will not anywhere else. That's just the way it is.
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lostrune



Joined: 09 Jun 2012
Posts: 275

PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 2:42 pm Reply with quote
Shiroi Hane wrote:

Sailor Moon was originally serialised in Nakayoshi, which is a Shoujo anthology, making the target readership young girls probably around the elementary (shougakkou) to middle school (chuugakkou) age range.


You just have to look at the commercials to see the target audience Laughing

http://www.youtube.com/​watch?​v=​ONUVMin4QoE&​t=​30s
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ConanSan



Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 1818

PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 3:53 pm Reply with quote
lostrune wrote:
Shiroi Hane wrote:

Sailor Moon was originally serialised in Nakayoshi, which is a Shoujo anthology, making the target readership young girls probably around the elementary (shougakkou) to middle school (chuugakkou) age range.


You just have to look at the commercials to see the target audience Laughing

http://www.youtube.com/​watch?​v=​ONUVMin4QoE&​t=​30s
Oh yeah, I've seen those. At some point they get bored and start super imposing JoJo's OVA footage into the Manga adverts. Pretty funny stuff.
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Cryssoberyl



Joined: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 184

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 10:47 am Reply with quote
Snomaster1 wrote:
without introducing them to things that most parents would have extreme difficulty explaining to them

Quote:
Scarring them emotionally

Quote:
Telling them about homosexuality at such an early age will confuse kids

Quote:
protect their kids from bad influences

Quote:
Exposing them to things like homosexuality and lesbianism when they're not ready for it is wrong.

Quote:
I'm leery about kids learning about things when they're not ready for it or they're not mature enough to handle it.


Yeah, you're totally not a homophobe AT ALL. Totally.

Quote:
Stuff like homosexuality and lesbianism are simply things that in American culture are things that for the most part things that kids aren't ready to learn about yet.


The only one who doesn't seem ready for it as you. As others have pointed out, the "extreme difficulty" of explaining it to kids goes like this:

"Some boys fall in love with girls, some boys fall in love with boys, some girls fall in love with boys, and some girls fall in love with girls."

Kids aren't "confused" by that. They accept it. If any parent finds giving that explanation an "extreme difficulty", it's only because they find the idea of homosexuality icky and embarrassing, as you clearly do.
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Snomaster1
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 11:57 pm Reply with quote
And once more,the homophobe card gets played...again. Instead of dealing with the substance of my arguments,I'm subjected to ad hominem attacks because there are those on this website who don't like my opinions or those who feel like I do. And,for those who might not know what ad hominem means,it's a Latin phrase that means "to the man." Instead of attacking the person's argument,he or she attacks his or her opponent directly.
The argument shouldn't be about my feelings on homosexuality and lesbianism. The argument should be the appropriateness of certain content to children. I have no problem with homosexual or lesbian content in stuff like "The Wire,""Castle,""Cowboy Bebop,"and shows like that because they're not made for kids. They're made for adults. Yeah,I know that there are some adult shows that kids watch. But,responsible parents find out about the content of the shows first and watch with their kids.

I have no problem with stuff like "Bleach" either,because that's geared towards teenagers because teens,by and large,can handle more advanced subject matter and they're a little more mature than a seven-year-old. The problem comes with shows like "Sailor Moon." This show is geared towards seven-year-old girls. But,it has content that would concern most parents in America.
I know that the show was made in Japan and that Japanese culture is different from American culture in what children would be exposed to. But,I'm not going to fault companies like DIC or Cloverway for the dub and edits they made because they were doing it for American kids,not for selfish and insensitive fan boys and girls who blithely dismiss the concerns of parents and want the show done their way,not caring about the psyches of the kids or the feelings of their parents.

It's a shame that people like zeo1fan or Cryssoberyl don't seem to get it. Not every seven-year-old kid can handle mature subject matter or have responsible parents. Also,not everyone on earth shares their opinions and that includes most parents. They just want to raise their kids and make sure they grow up to be well-adjusted members of society. And for many of them,our current culture makes it very difficult.
Unfortunately,those like zeo1fan and Cryssoberyl don't seem to see that. They just want a show like "Sailor Moon" done their way,regardless of how most parents feel about it. Most parents want to protect their kids. Maybe if those like zeo1fan and Cryssoberyl were parents themselves,they'd know how they feel. But somehow,I doubt they do.


Last edited by Snomaster1 on Sun May 12, 2013 12:29 am; edited 2 times in total
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 4:16 pm Reply with quote
Parents can try to protect their children from these things, but they can't be with them all the time, especially in the school playground where a third. if not a half of children's education occurs. I've heard 5 year olds calling their mate, or sister, or brother "gay" in malicious banter. My two knew what it meant before I could discuss it with them, giving me the "Yeah we know. Rolling Eyes " response. Laughing
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TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4036

PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 4:45 pm Reply with quote
Snomaster1 wrote:
I have no problem with stuff like "Bleach" either,because that's geared towards teenagers because teens,by and large,can handle more advanced subject matter and they're a little more mature than a seven-year-old. The problem comes with shows like "Sailor Moon." This show is geared towards seven-year-old girls. But,it has content that would concern most parents in America.


Bleach is also for kids. Just little boys instead of little girls. All these popular shounen and shoujo shows are for pre-teen kids in Japan.
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danilo07



Joined: 25 Dec 2011
Posts: 1568

PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 5:07 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Not every seven-year-old kid can handle mature subject matter or have responsible parents. Also,not everyone on earth shares their opinions and that includes most parents.

Where did you pull that information from?Please link any valid scientific research that suggests that if some children find out that gay people exist,it will make their heads explode.And just how do you think children of gay people live?I know many examples of children being parented by gay persons without getting confused and unable to have such a complicated knowledge.
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