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dtm42



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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 10:50 pm Reply with quote
wcsinn, you are overlooking love interests right left and centre. It seems like you are using the criteria that a girl can only be a love interest if the boy likes her back. But this ignores how in most Harem shows the boy does not have romantic feelings for every single member of his harem. Sometimes he only has romantic feelings for just one girl, but the rest of the girls are still love interests. The same applies to love triangles when two girls like one guy but he only likes one of them back; the second girl is still a love interest.
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DuskyPredator
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 11:30 pm Reply with quote
@ wcsinn
My analysis was not on mere harems or who was “chosen”, it also included romance where the guy got a choice between different girls, but the series obviously pushed towards one girl, what I was looking at was that larger breasted characters was left surprisingly out.

wcsinn wrote:
B Gata H Kei - just how is this a harem? Yamata is the only girl he is interested in and vice versa

His childhood friend is likely love interest, and she is stacked, but he does not consider her one.
wcsinn wrote:
Ben-to - not a harem and the Ice Witch is hardly small busted

Ice Witch is considerably smaller in comparison to another character that most likely has a thing for him, but that character is his cousin who is left out of likely love interest because of family relation.
wcsinn wrote:
Chobits (technically) - again, not even close to a harem, no other love interests

Chobits had various girls in the series, but by the end they were made unlikely as they had someone they liked and such, thus he ended up with the small chested one.
wcsinn wrote:
Clannad - not sure I'd call it a harem, but either way Nagisa has the same figure as all the other girls

It is a harem, various characters have a thing for him as they on occasion fought for him, but that is beside the point. Tomoya did choose someone, and she really was not that large, actually two characters got alternate reality route episodes, but the girl with the largest bust did not, she was practically the most friendzoned.
wcsinn wrote:
Dance in the Vampire Bund - not close to a harem, no other love interest

Did you forget the girl that tried to brainwash him?
wcsinn wrote:
Dantalian no Shoko - definitely not a harem

He has a female friend who may or may not have a thing for him who looks more mature, regardless the heroine is rather childlike.
wcsinn wrote:
Evangelion - not a harem, and Shinji does not choose any girl, Asuka would be the leading candidate and she's hardly flat-chested

In honesty I am not too familiar with this series despite the two remake movies and some fanart, but it is just that I felt the series liked to put more focus on the small Rei instead of the other girl interested in him.
wcsinn wrote:
Gosick - so not a harem, ZERO other love interest

There was another girl, but focus in entirely on the petite heroine.
wcsinn wrote:
Gurren Lagann - not a harem, Simon has a slight, very short crush on Yoko at the beginning when he was a kid, other than that it's all Nia

If I remember properly there was some jealousy from Yoko over Simon entirely loseing interest over the princess.
wcsinn wrote:
Ichiban Ushiro no Daimao - finally, a harem but Junko is NOT flat-chested and none of the girls are overly busty

In my opinion the token big girl (the witch with a brother complex and drives a car in the OP) is the least likely contender among the harem, this even includes the flat robot.
Mayo Chiki - not sure this qualifies as a harem, but the only really large busted girl is Nakuru who is not a love interest, the other girls have relatively 'normal' figures, with Usami (the flat-chested love interest) losing out to Subaru big time[/quote]
If she semi flirts with him and has moments thinking about how cool he is, then she is included. The fact you don’t see her as a love interest is exactly why I put this series in this spot
wcsinn wrote:
Rosario Vampire - jeez, Moka is hardly flat-chested

Kurumu is big, in fact she openly says it is her best assets, she is the token big boobed character, but the series does no favours for her in having no character centred episodes, and made mostly comic relief. It is rather different to the manga in that regards.
wcsinn wrote:
So I can't Play H - so Lisara isn't as big busted as Mina, but again hardly flat-chested

Lisara is small, the other, from there it goes to having a scene where he says that he does not want to do it (she is almost a token loli despite size), and he actually show little romantic interest in and just wanting to help.
wcsinn wrote:
Aversions:
Cat Planet Cuties - while Eris & Manami are well endowed, especially compared to Aoi - Kio clearly chooses no one

In my opinion the series actually focussed quite a lot on the main heroine who had a large size, the focus on a large heroine was enough to consider an aversion, there was all that in heat thing.
wcsinn wrote:
Kamisama Dolls again, not a harem, you can't count the crazy one from the village as a love interest

The only real love interest is considerably larger than the crazy girl who has an interest in him, and his little sister who is over protective (obviously a crush of some level).
wcsinn wrote:
Listen to Me Girls, I'm Your Father - really? a harem, he only has one love interest

Again being a harem was not necessary, but Raika was considerably larger than his... step niece?
wcsinn wrote:
Medaka Box - again, no other love interest, hence not a harem

If you think Shiranui has no interest in the hero, then you are missing something, but despite being so chummy with the petite Shiranui (often to disgust of others) he only seems to have romantic interest for Medaka.
wcsinn wrote:
Sora no Otoshimono (although opposite in Forte) - really, Tomoki never shows any romantic interest in Nymph, the only small busted one

He did not need to show interest, Nymph showed interest in him, but Tomoki did not find seem to have interest in her, the one he had strongest interest in was Ikaros. Although with Forte, Astera seemed to be the token of various pranks and her falling down to his level thing (or the other way around) actually seemed to imply she was the one he had least interest in.
wcsinn wrote:
Likely Possible:
Asura Cryin - both girls are well endowed and roughly equal

What I was thiking, I could not think who was most likely. But both outdid the smaller girl spoiler[who apparently was his girlfriend in an alternate reality].
wcsinn wrote:
Bleach - Bleach is a freekin harem? good grief

Don’t know about you, but I always thought the series seemed to prefer Rukia and Ichigo rather than Orihime and Ichigo.
wcsinn wrote:
Close series left Unsorted (I am not sure where to place them):
Shuffle - have you seen it? This is the clearest cut example of the protagonist choosing a girl out there, and early on. Also, only Primula is smaller busted - the other four are very equal.]

I could not decide if the winner was much different from than the other three, so I left in unsorted. I did consider Primula’s place, and the teasing of a flat chested girl to actually be a good example of the smaller girls are less likely love interests, but that did not mean it deserved a place as an aversion.
wcsinn wrote:
To answer the question of other series where the guy ends up with a big-busted girl:
Sekerei, Ah My Buddha, Ah My Goddess, Bakemonogatari, Freezing (not sure it's really a harem though), He Is My Master, Hyakka Ryouran Samurai Girls, Love Hina, Maburaho, Maken-ki (doesn't actually choose, but his preference is pretty obvious), Samurai Harem, Seikon no Qwaser (not the biggest, but not bad).

Bakemonogatari is actually fitted into confirmation as the big breasted Tsubasa earned a second reserved only for eye candy, see Nekomonogatari for his opinion on her.
Ah My Goddess as I and Key had a back and forward above has a sort of weird relation, bein an 80s series might be an explanation of it being muddy.
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wcsinn



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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 12:59 am Reply with quote
See, I obviously didn't understand - silly me. I thought a harem was characterized by a protagonist surrounded, usually amorously, by three or more members of the opposite sex. It appears that any story having three or females who happen to realize the male protagonists is still breathing is a harem. His cousin, who is left out as a love interest because they are related - counts, his niece whom he is raising, not courting - counts, the villianess who tried to brain-wash him - counts. I see your point.
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DuskyPredator
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:19 am Reply with quote
wcsinn wrote:
His cousin, who is left out as a love interest because they are related - counts,
Except his cousin clearly likes him, cousins actually are not illegal in Japan, what was holding her back from being more forceful was a mix of fear of social prejudice, and that he did not like her. So she just teased.

wcsinn wrote:
his niece whom he is raising, not courting - counts,
And she likes the main character, she liked him from when they were younger, and they are not related by blood. He may not be interested because he is raising her and there is a few years difference, but does not mean she is not part of a love triangle.

wcsinn wrote:
the villianess who tried to brain-wash him - counts. I see your point.
I am talking about Yuki Saegusa, you know the girl spoiler[who lied that she gave Akira the jewellery when he got amnesia, giving fake memories] is brainwashing.

And again they did not have to be true harems, they could be love triangles to show the possible discrimination over physical appearance.
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Polycell
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:55 am Reply with quote
DuskyPredator wrote:
Except his cousin clearly likes him, cousins actually are not illegal in Japan, what was holding her back from being more forceful was a mix of fear of social prejudice, and that he did not like her. So she just teased.
I don't think Ben-to really works to illustrate the point either way, since You never displayed any romantic interest towards anyone(though he's clearly sexually interested in said cousin).
Quote:
And she likes the main character, she liked him from when they were younger, and they are not related by blood. He may not be interested because he is raising her and there is a few years difference, but does not mean she is not part of a love triangle.
At the very least, the chest upgrade she gets in that dream of hers is certainly relevant to the point at hand.
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Animegomaniac



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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 7:34 am Reply with quote
Hitokiri Kenshin wrote:

I'd say when Sekirei ends that will, unless by some weird chance Kusano gets an age upgrade. Watch episode 2 of Pure Engagement, it has something funny relating to it.


That's a foul; All members of that harem are large breasted except for the loli and spoiler[um, whatever Homura is]. Anyway, I'm voting for harem ending on that one. When it does end. {It doesn't help that the one who most wants to be his wife, is ok with him having mistresses}.

Quote:

B Gata H Kei - just how is this a harem? Yamata is the only girl he is interested in and vice versa


Mayu and Kanejo together with Yamada with Kosuda never fully developing a relationship with Yamada until the end make a harem. The problem why the situation isn't clear is that Kanejo struggled with Yamada by using Kosuda as a potential boyfriend/victim while Mayu and Yamada became friends because they both fell in love with the same guy. If the anime actually finished the plot, you'd see where everything went. Hint {ok not so much a hint but what happened} :spoiler[Kanejo honestly fell in love with Kosuda while Mayu got her own guy. Go figure, karma ensues.]

Mutual love doesn't make a harem, it makes for a love triangle. One sided, unrequited love from multiple girls? Now we're talking.

Ladies vs Butlers came close for a big breasted winner but 1 It never finished and 2 It's hard to see Tomomi leaving them alone even if she did lose.

Quote:

UFO Princess Valkryie
and
Steel Angel Kurumi


You do realize what Valkyrie's true form is, right {I'm really glad the anime never got to an ending}? And for Steel Angel Kurumi, all the girls were androids and Kurumi wasn't any bigger than Saki was.
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Touma



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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 9:36 am Reply with quote
wcsinn wrote:
See, I obviously didn't understand - silly me. I thought a harem was characterized by a protagonist surrounded, usually amorously, by three or more members of the opposite sex. It appears that any story having three or females who happen to realize the male protagonists is still breathing is a harem. His cousin, who is left out as a love interest because they are related - counts, his niece whom he is raising, not courting - counts, the villianess who tried to brain-wash him - counts. I see your point.


It is getting a bit off of the topic, but I agree with you on this.
To me it is not a harem unless there is a mutual romantic or sexual interest between the guy and three or more girls.
If having several girls interested in a guy was all that was needed then just about every school comedy would be a harem show because there are usually a lot of girls crushing on a male (or female) student or teacher who does not even know that they are alive.
But it is just a matter of definition and I doubt that there is any "official" definition because there is no established authority for anime definitions. Still, having a definition that is too broad makes it kind of meaningless.

Getting back to the breasts, which is a much more pleasant topic, I prefer the medium size. Since "medium" is not well defined an example is in order.
In The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, since it has been mentioned, I like Haruhi better than Mikaru or Yuki, though I certainly do not dislike either of them.
In Neon Genesis Evangelion, since it is well known, I prefer Asuka over Misato or Rei. That is just for breast size, as a total character I like Misato the best.
I cannot give a limit for how big is "too big," but most of the girls in Divergence Eve would be over the limit. Those things do not even look like breasts to me.
The only requirement for not being "too small" is that they have to obviously be breasts.
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kookykonata



Joined: 07 May 2013
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 10:23 am Reply with quote
To be honest, I truly prefer smaller breasts. I can't stand when they are drawn so ridiculously out of proportion that the girl's back would break. A good example of this is almost every girl in "The Horizon In The Middle Of Nowhere." It just gets to a point when it stops being ok and starts being grotesque. Plus, it's animes like those that give anime in general a bad name. I can't even begin to tell you how many people consider all anime pornography (or Hentai) when it's definitely not.
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Polycell
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 11:17 am Reply with quote
I lost any interest I had in checking Horizon out after seeing what they were pulling with the designs. Definitely a case of "no, just no" for me.
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walw6pK4Alo



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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 11:18 am Reply with quote
They've considered it pornography since the early 90s, I'd just give up on trying to convince them otherwise. The best response you'll get is "Oh, it's not all porn? Then it's all this Pokeymans garbage."
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wcsinn



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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 11:42 am Reply with quote
Touma wrote:
I agree with you on this.
To me it is not a harem unless there is a mutual romantic or sexual interest between the guy and three or more girls.
If having several girls interested in a guy was all that was needed then just about every school comedy would be a harem show because there are usually a lot of girls crushing on a male (or female) student or teacher who does not even know that they are alive.
But it is just a matter of definition and I doubt that there is any "official" definition because there is no established authority for anime definitions. Still, having a definition that is too broad makes it kind of meaningless.


And that was my point, while there may be no 'official' definition, there are accepted ones, though around here they do seem to be ignored more often than not.

In this case we have someone offering a theory, "in harems there is a trend to not take the big-busted girl seriously, and the protagonist will (more often than not) end up with the flat-chested girl". He sets the rules that will govern his evidence and then ignores them. Series are listed as harems which clearly are not (Bleach), minor characters who barely interact with the protagonist are suddenly love interests (Dantalian no Shoka), and suddenly said series no longer have to be a harem. We then change the rules again by saying there is evidence the theory is true because the protagonist choose the girl with the 34C chest over the one with the 36B chest ... neither is flat-chested, now we are reduced to ranking characters not by large or small, but incrementally so a change of an inch is proof of preference and an ongoing trend? (Clannad)

BTW - who do you folks hang out with that have this overwhelming belief that anime is all perverted or pornographic? My kids are in there 30s so I don't associate with many kids/students but among my friends and acquaintances there are only two common responses - yeah, I'm a fan and what the hell is anime?
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Chiibi



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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 12:09 pm Reply with quote
Animegomaniac wrote:


You do realize what Valkyrie's true form is, right


Her true form is an adult woman. I just looked it up.
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Riddley



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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 3:00 pm Reply with quote
wcsinn wrote:
Touma wrote:
I agree with you on this.
To me it is not a harem unless there is a mutual romantic or sexual interest between the guy and three or more girls.
If having several girls interested in a guy was all that was needed then just about every school comedy would be a harem show because there are usually a lot of girls crushing on a male (or female) student or teacher who does not even know that they are alive.
But it is just a matter of definition and I doubt that there is any "official" definition because there is no established authority for anime definitions. Still, having a definition that is too broad makes it kind of meaningless.


And that was my point, while there may be no 'official' definition, there are accepted ones, though around here they do seem to be ignored more often than not.

In this case we have someone offering a theory, "in harems there is a trend to not take the big-busted girl seriously, and the protagonist will (more often than not) end up with the flat-chested girl". He sets the rules that will govern his evidence and then ignores them. Series are listed as harems which clearly are not (Bleach), minor characters who barely interact with the protagonist are suddenly love interests (Dantalian no Shoka), and suddenly said series no longer have to be a harem. We then change the rules again by saying there is evidence the theory is true because the protagonist choose the girl with the 34C chest over the one with the 36B chest ... neither is flat-chested, now we are reduced to ranking characters not by large or small, but incrementally so a change of an inch is proof of preference and an ongoing trend? (Clannad)

BTW - who do you folks hang out with that have this overwhelming belief that anime is all perverted or pornographic? My kids are in there 30s so I don't associate with many kids/students but among my friends and acquaintances there are only two common responses - yeah, I'm a fan and what the hell is anime?


A harem imo is any anime where more than two characters are in love with the main character regardless of who that main character has feelings for in return. Now, we can argue the definition of harems, but that's require a different thread. I'm basing my hypothesis on that definition though. Bleach I don't think counts personally. Clannad most definitely does.

I agree that some people might have different ideas of what a harem is, but you need only look at the recent Oreshura as a perfect example of what the industry sees as a harem. Hell, the whole anime makes fun of itself being a harem and which route it will take, but we all know he doesn't have feelings for any but one. So the creators of that anime pretty much consider it a fact that what they see as a harem is actually the accepted definition, otherwise they couldn't have gotten away with the gags they did.

And actually I changed my original hypothesis to be more in line with the spirit of my idea, which is that the size of a female characters chest has a direct impact on her possibility of being a romantic lead. In fact, I never once said that the flat chested girl had more of a chance. Rather, I said that the bigger or smaller they get, the more likely it is that the character won't be the romantic lead because the Japanese have an ideal female body shape that correlates with a girl's propensity to be a viable romantic partner. I.E. The Japanese society sees girls with big breasts as all being sex pots and unlikely to be suitable romantic interests and see all girls with anything less than a large B cup to not be up for child-bearing and unlikely to be a good romantic interest. And I wondered does this correlate with the anecdotal evidence I've found in my own anime viewing and that's why I came up with the idea.

A hypothesis is just that...an idea. We're seeing does it fit. And changing it as we find evidence pointing in different directions.
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DuskyPredator
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 10:43 pm Reply with quote
In some respects it is not too much of a surprise. My current idea on why is that larger breasts are most common in foreigners in the eyes of the Japanese. And thus they often represent someone you can lust over (they are exotic), but not someone you can bring home to your parents. That is just a theory, and I might be out of line.
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wcsinn



Joined: 01 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 12:43 am Reply with quote
DuskyPredator wrote:
In some respects it is not too much of a surprise. My current idea on why is that larger breasts are most common in foreigners in the eyes of the Japanese. And thus they often represent someone you can lust over (they are exotic), but not someone you can bring home to your parents. That is just a theory, and I might be out of line.


Actually, that is quite accurate. Western/foreign boyfriends or girlfriends are considered very 'cool', until things get serious then it's an entirely different story. That said, this is certainly only a Japanese thing, right here most minority families will get a huge amount of flak for becoming serious with someone outside your ethic group.

Whether or not that equates to breast size in any way is another story.
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