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NEWS: Marvelous USA Considers Senran Kagura Burst's Digital Release


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Haterater



Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 1727
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 10:17 am Reply with quote
Surrender Artist wrote:
Alexander55 wrote:
As for the feminist debate around here, feminists shouldn't stick their nose in video games, fictional mediums, or free speech of any sort. Authors/producers should be free to produce whatever they want, that tailors to their consumers. This is a free country (in theory at the very least) and we should be allowed to consume, read, watch, and play with whatever we want.


I think that there’s a rather serious contradiction here. You put a lot of weight on freedom of speech for game developers and consumers, but to the end of instructing feminists not to exercise theirs. If there is a freedom to, “to consume, read, watch, and play with whatever we want,” then there is a freedom to criticize those choices that comes with it. (And naturally the right to criticize that criticism and so on) Developers are free to make them and you're free to play them, there's no real way or effort to compel otherwise, but others are free to criticize doing do. That these games can be criticized makes it more of a free country, not less. Again, this is not, “you’re wrong,” but, “SHUT UP!”

I don't know where this notion of freedom of speech as a one-way shield for people who enjoy the status quo came from, but it's really irritating.



I think its because some people fear the criticisms will lead to censorship. What would the ones criticizing like to see done? The other side assumes that they either want the offending content done away with or toned down which equates to censorship for some.

With the violent video game debates, alot of politicians always seem to want to ban it and such, and maybe that's why some fear the sexist stuff is heading that way although some who have criticized the sexist material have no desire to want the material censored just like some with violent video games.

If only there was more variety and representations out there, I think it wouldn't be as big a deal as it is now.
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Polycell



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 11:00 am Reply with quote
This whole debate seems to come down to one side thinking its bad because it objectifies women while the other side thinks that reality is reality and the game isn't. Note carefully that these two don't quite line up.
Chagen46 wrote:
Some people deserve to be hated, by the way.
Especially the arrogant, holier-than-thou, full-of-hate sort.
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Primus



Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Posts: 2758
Location: Toronto
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 11:39 am Reply with quote
I don't want XSEED wasting their time on this game, not because there's boobs but rather the fact that I've heard nothing other than "It's okay" in regards to the game's quality. Of course XSEED brings over questionable stuff like the Valhalla Knights games but I suppose that at least has a history of being successful for them.
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Chagen46



Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 4377
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 1:02 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
This whole debate seems to come down to one side thinking its bad because it objectifies women while the other side thinks that reality is reality and the game isn't. Note carefully that these two don't quite line up.


It being a game doesn't change the fact that it's lurid. Because it is. SR is trashy. Now, I like trash, but I know it's trash. The fanservice of this game is unneccessary, and it IS objectifying. Just WATCHING the game, I feel like some kind of creepy sexual offender. The fanservice here is uncomfortable for the girls and for me.

Also, most who play this game are either misogynists or people I disagree with politically (not that there's any difference).

Quote:
Gee I dunno, maybe because youre terrible at presenting your opinion in a way that people will take you seriously? Nobody opposing your view will ever take you seriously if you constantly attack them with your words. Youre overly forceful with your "convictions".


I am aggresive when dealing with sexists/misogynists because I know that, by virtue of being an egalitarian, I am morally superior to them, and therefore I have no need to treat their opinions as anything more than the screeds of bigots thag they are.
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razisgosu



Joined: 26 Sep 2012
Posts: 656
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 1:40 pm Reply with quote
Chagen46 wrote:
Quote:
This whole debate seems to come down to one side thinking its bad because it objectifies women while the other side thinks that reality is reality and the game isn't. Note carefully that these two don't quite line up.


It being a game doesn't change the fact that it's lurid. Because it is. SR is trashy. Now, I like trash, but I know it's trash. The fanservice of this game is unneccessary, and it IS objectifying. Just WATCHING the game, I feel like some kind of creepy sexual offender. The fanservice here is uncomfortable for the girls and for me.

Also, most who play this game are either misogynists or people I disagree with politically (not that there's any difference).

Quote:
Gee I dunno, maybe because youre terrible at presenting your opinion in a way that people will take you seriously? Nobody opposing your view will ever take you seriously if you constantly attack them with your words. Youre overly forceful with your "convictions".


I am aggresive when dealing with sexists/misogynists because I know that, by virtue of being an egalitarian, I am morally superior to them, and therefore I have no need to treat their opinions as anything more than the screeds of bigots thag they are.


If you can't accept others opinions as valid that makes you infinitely inferior actually. Who says anyone here is a sexist? Just you and youre wrong. Liking fanservice does not make you a sexist. Liking extremes does not make you a sexist. Comments like yours are disgusting and are the same as the ones that come from christians who despise atheists simply because they have a different opinion. Quotes like yours belong on /r/cringe.
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Cecilthedarkknight_234



Joined: 02 Apr 2011
Posts: 3819
Location: Louisville, KY
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 1:42 pm Reply with quote
Chagen46 wrote:
Quote:
This whole debate seems to come down to one side thinking its bad because it objectifies women while the other side thinks that reality is reality and the game isn't. Note carefully that these two don't quite line up.


It being a game doesn't change the fact that it's lurid. Because it is. SR is trashy. Now, I like trash, but I know it's trash. The fanservice of this game is unneccessary, and it IS objectifying. Just WATCHING the game, I feel like some kind of creepy sexual offender. The fanservice here is uncomfortable for the girls and for me.

Also, most who play this game are either misogynists or people I disagree with politically (not that there's any difference).

Quote:
Gee I dunno, maybe because youre terrible at presenting your opinion in a way that people will take you seriously? Nobody opposing your view will ever take you seriously if you constantly attack them with your words. Youre overly forceful with your "convictions".


I am aggresive when dealing with sexists/misogynists because I know that, by virtue of being an egalitarian, I am morally superior to them, and therefore I have no need to treat their opinions as anything more than the screeds of bigots thag they are.


Do yourself a favor and never call me that again or even lump me in with those terms. I enjoy what I enjoy so you either deal with this by getting off your damn high horse. I will not be looked down or made fun of because I happen to like a trashy game such as this. I get enough sh** from people on gaming forums just for playing eroge/visual novels, so I will not tolerate any form of it here. I have enough problems/issues in my life to worry about, my hobby shouldn't be one of them.
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Chagen46



Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 4377
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 2:02 pm Reply with quote
I said "most", not "all".

Quote:
If you can't accept others opinions as valid that makes you infinitely inferior actually.


When said opinions are obviously wrong, then yeah, I won't accept them. Do you accept the ravings of a madman as valid?

Quote:
Just you and youre wrong. Liking fanservice does not make you a sexist. Liking extremes does not make you a sexist.


I never actually said this.

What I did say was that those who are obsessed with fanservice tend to be more "old-fashioned", to put it nicely. This is obvious from any observation of their beliefs.

Also configspace's statement of "feminist crap" is pretty damn bigoted. The Big Bad Feminists(TM) aren't here to take your porn away, god damn.

Ugh. Now I know how my ancestors felt when they had to fight for the elimination of segregation.

Quote:
Comments like yours are disgusting and are the same as the ones that come from christians who despise atheists simply because they have a different opinion. Quotes like yours belong on /r/cringe.


But in those cases, the Christians are wrong.

In my case, I am right (because I am an egalitarian) and those who are against are wrong (because they oppose equality for all people).

It's as simple as that.
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Hardgear





PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 2:29 pm Reply with quote
Chagen46 wrote:
When said opinions are obviously wrong, then yeah, I won't accept them. Do you accept the ravings of a madman as valid?


Funny you should mention that. Ever wonder why no one considers your ravings valid?
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Mugley



Joined: 30 Apr 2013
Posts: 43
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 3:25 pm Reply with quote
Chagen46 wrote:
The fanservice here is uncomfortable for the girls and for me.


I do not think girls everywhere appreciate you speaking for them.

Quote:
Also, most who play this game are either misogynists or people I disagree with politically (not that there's any difference).

I am aggresive when dealing with sexists/misogynists because I know that, by virtue of being an egalitarian, I am morally superior to them, and therefore I have no need to treat their opinions as anything more than the screeds of bigots thag they are.


You are really blinded by your own hatred you can't see your own feet in front of you... please look up the Warren Farrell riot in Toronto and how extremist feminists attacked police and caused property damage and try to deny the only hate in those instances was coming from extreme feminists. Attacking cops just because they're men doesn't support your cause, it just showcases why no one takes these people seriously when they do such extreme and hateful things in their quest for supposed equality.
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Chagen46



Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 4377
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 3:25 pm Reply with quote
But in this case, I'm right. They are only "mad ravings" in your eyes because they challenge your priveleged viewpoint.

They once called abolitionists "mad" too, you know.

Quote:
You are really blinded by your own hatred you can't see your own feet in front of you... please look up the Warren Farrell riot in Toronto and how extremist feminists attacked police and caused property damage and try to deny the only hate in those instances was coming from extreme feminists. Attacking cops just because they're men doesn't support your cause, it just showcases why no one takes these people seriously when they do such extreme and hateful things in their quest for supposed equality.


>"One tiny subset of this group did this bad thing, the WHOLE GROUP IS TERRIBLE"

Uh, no. You sound exactly like those racists who say that all black people are inherently violent because one black person killed someone.
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razisgosu



Joined: 26 Sep 2012
Posts: 656
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 4:07 pm Reply with quote
Chagen46 wrote:
But in this case, I'm right. They are only "mad ravings" in your eyes because they challenge your priveleged viewpoint.

They once called abolitionists "mad" too, you know.

Quote:
You are really blinded by your own hatred you can't see your own feet in front of you... please look up the Warren Farrell riot in Toronto and how extremist feminists attacked police and caused property damage and try to deny the only hate in those instances was coming from extreme feminists. Attacking cops just because they're men doesn't support your cause, it just showcases why no one takes these people seriously when they do such extreme and hateful things in their quest for supposed equality.


>"One tiny subset of this group did this bad thing, the WHOLE GROUP IS TERRIBLE"

Uh, no. You sound exactly like those racists who say that all black people are inherently violent because one black person killed someone.


You can't try and end a debate by saying I'm right, that's horrible etiquette. That's why your ravings are mad, you have no facts to justify your statements. If youre going to say youre right at least back up your statements with facts, not name calling. That's acting like a child, which at this point I am seriously questioning whether you are or not.
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Chagen46



Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 4377
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 4:26 pm Reply with quote
razisgosu wrote:
You can't try and end a debate by saying I'm right, that's horrible etiquette. That's why your ravings are mad, you have no facts to justify your statements. If youre going to say youre right at least back up your statements with facts, not name calling. That's acting like a child, which at this point I am seriously questioning whether you are or not.


The facts should be obvious to anyone who actually analyzes the evidence. You can choose to deny them or not, but the great thing about facts is that you don't have to agree with them.

Besides, my previous dealings with misogynists have shown me that no amount of the facts will make them change their minds. All they will do is downplay, handwave, and deny them.
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razisgosu



Joined: 26 Sep 2012
Posts: 656
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 4:50 pm Reply with quote
Chagen46 wrote:
razisgosu wrote:
You can't try and end a debate by saying I'm right, that's horrible etiquette. That's why your ravings are mad, you have no facts to justify your statements. If youre going to say youre right at least back up your statements with facts, not name calling. That's acting like a child, which at this point I am seriously questioning whether you are or not.


The facts should be obvious to anyone who actually analyzes the evidence. You can choose to deny them or not, but the great thing about facts is that you don't have to agree with them.

Besides, my previous dealings with misogynists have shown me that no amount of the facts will make them change their minds. All they will do is downplay, handwave, and deny them.


So basically exactly what you're doing right now? So you admit to being on the same level as those you deal with. That's good to know.
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Jedi Master



Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 400
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 4:56 pm Reply with quote
Wow that's a lot of arguing.

As much as I'd like to see Senran Kagura get an English release, I'm not really expecting this to go through to market. I still remember Ikki Tousen: Shining Dragon on the PS2 afterall.
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Chagen46



Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 4377
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 5:03 pm Reply with quote
razisgosu wrote:


So basically exactly what you're doing right now? So you admit to being on the same level as those you deal with. That's good to know.


I'm not the one clamoring for a puerile piece of oversexed dreck like this game.

I'm also not the passive-aggressive misogynist here either.
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