Forum - View topicAnime Localization
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Cloe
Moderator
 Posts: 2728 Location: Los Angeles, CA |
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I agree with you here, and this point actually reminds me of another part of certain anime DVDs that I love: translation notes. (This applies more to sub fans like me, probably.) I watched Irresponsible Captain Tylor for the first time last weekend and noticed several little deviations in the subtitles from the literal Japanese dialogue being spoken. After reading the liner notes that came witht the DVD, I fully appreciated what this translator had to go through to find English equivalents for all of Tylor's small jokes and bad puns. I often have a fonder appreciation for a translation when I get to know a little about the decisions made in translating it. Similarly, in the FLCL dub, I like how English equivalents for certain Japanese references were put in place (ie Red Hot Chili Peppers for whatever Japanese band was mentioned in the sub). I think it shows extra thought and care on the part of the translator, not the opposite. |
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Jadress
 Posts: 807 Location: Seattle. It purdy and nerdy! |
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Good article, although I agree that the lame-ness of CCS should have been mentioned. Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I enjoy BOTH subs and dubs, and for the most part, yes, I'd like both to be accurate (some changes in jokes and stuff is fine). I understand that some localizations need to be made for children's programming and FCC-fearing cuts for older-geared shows.
The thing that bothers me most, is that a lot of localization stuff seems unnecessary and sells kids short. What, kids can't handle that adventures can take place in somewhere other than North America? To me, it seems any cultural differences could be a learning experience to kids, even if that meant putting a "Sailor Says" type clip at the end that says "In Japan, people eat riceballs for snacks!" I just don't think things need to be as dumbed down as they are. It also kills my efficiency-driven mind that these localizations are time and money spent on things that seemingly don't matter, like changing background music. "God damn this light-hearted piano melody! No one will watch the show now! Change it to a light-hearted guitar riff!" I don't pretend to be an expert on kids programming or anything, but the very very heavily localized shows bother me only because I think it's a waste of money and underestimates what children can handle. At least I always thought it was cool learning about other countries when I was little. Luckily for me, I've actually never cared for any of the titles that have been butchered and never been released uneditted, but I understand the frustration. |
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Cowpunk
Posts: 168 Location: Oakland - near the Newtype Lab |
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And don't forget Mexico, the home of Amuro Ray, is part of North America. <grin> Gilles - Originally from Quebec and eater of Mexican food - Poitras |
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v1cious
 Posts: 6202 Location: Houston, TX |
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but then by eliminating the culture, they ruin any originality the series brought to the table, making it look like every other title out there on the market and therefore regular people don't even give it a secod glance, and hardcore fans are insulted. the only time localization works is when it's something that is already very cross culture to begin with, like FLCL for example. Last edited by v1cious on Sat Sep 10, 2005 7:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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astra
Posts: 131 |
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I find this article rather silly. First of all, what are you trying to prove by writing it? Do you really expect anime fans to not complain? HAH. Also, I think the nature of the fandom of anime turns everyone into "purists" with sticks up their asses. Even the most casual fan of anime will call himself an otaku nowadays.
Another thing I think is silly about this article is something the authors don't realize. Right now, nerdy is in. Yesteryear's hunky Nsync members have been replaced by scrawny emo white men with guitars on MTV. Right now, nearly every young person has a niche they can fall into, be it tattoos, piercings, or formally popular stuff. Yes, there are now cheerleader "geeks." Their short skirts have just now morphed into rags from Urban Outfitters and their bags are adorned with buttons with hip statements. Attractive people are regularly seen at anime conventions. The mainstream market is changing and its surprising that you haven't even realized it. Why do you think anime and manga has experienced such growth in America in recent years? I think it would be wise for anime companies to seize this opportunity because who knows how long nerdy will be in? Robotech is a relic from the age when football and cheerleaders ruled the world(not that they don't now, its just their power has been diminished...), so it doesn't even deserve mention. Cardcaptor's adaption was so confusing that it failed miserably. Escaflowne was also a title that failed because of its adaption and one that you conveniently left out. Initial D, if I can take your word for it, is the only title mentioned in this article that achieved success through localization. I'm surprised that an entire editorial was written with only one example to back it up. How can you write this with such scant evidence? Who came up with the term "tricked out?" As I recall, this term was only used for the Initial D adaption. Why are you using this term for titles that never even called themselves it? Do you think it makes it cooler? They are adaptions, localizations, etc. "Tricked out" is a term used in only one DVD release and should not be used for all the titles. Alot of titles have fared well recently with small edits here and there. Examples include all the Shonen Jump titles. This magazine and its manga have been translated and have a few edits so that they appeal to the same target audience as in Japan. The average ten year old boy has not been exposed to the levels of nudity present in Japanese culture and would probably be confused (albeit happily.) Edits to cut out nudity and bad language only seem natural for adaptions for American children. While some otaku will harp on about how anime isn't just for kids, this stuff is. Just because Western culture considers nudity and language to be "mature" subjects, this doesn't mean that the original title was meant for adults. In fact, most of the nudity and language in children's manga is quite immature. There should be different standards in adapting manga and anime based on the target audience. Titles from Shonen Jump or Ribon should be edited for children. Titles from the more "mature" Shonen Jump line of magazines and "ladies" manga should be unedited. This really is a nobrainer. One thing I find amazing about the changes some anime companies make for localization is their sheer arrogance. Because anime is still a niche market, the staff at these companies are not as good as companies that could pay more. Obviously, the people who know their stuff are away in Hollywood working on adaptions of foreign things that will REALLY be seen by the mainstream, in movies like "The Ring." The localizations of some anime, like Cardcaptors, are so subpar and out of touch with the mainstream that they just reek of incompetance. If you are reading this and you work in the American anime industry, I hope you are offended. 
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shadow_guyver
 Posts: 307 Location: Tokyo, Japan |
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"As far as I know"? So you haven't actually seen the Tokyopop DVDs then. The sub is only watered down with regards to one relationship, and even then it's barely any different. I know, I have all of TP's Initial D DVDs. |
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Kazuki-san
 Posts: 2251 Location: Houston, TX |
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I have to agree with you. For the most part, the flow heads out, not in, so most younger people these days do not encounter foreign language films that are not dubbed. So much so, that they prefer to listen to it dubbed, because that's ALL they were brought up doing. I know that's how I was at first. I hated watching subs, because it was in AMERICA not Japan, so why should I listed ot it in Japanese? It wasn't until I got through about 3 subbed series that I really began to appreciate them. |
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Patachu
Past ANN Contributor
 Posts: 1325 Location: San Diego |
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KTEH 54 San Jose, about 5 years ago. But that was a public service station, and they ran it subbed, so that's beside the point.
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6867 Location: Kazune City |
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I was going to make this same point--if you study a bit of Japanese, or even pick some up from the subtitles, you will see that staying perfectly faithful to the original will result in English that is awkward at best and incomprehensible at worst. Just today, I was watching a badly done fansub that included such "faithful" translations as: hitori? >> One person? -- "Correct," but "Are you alone?" or something like that would have been better--It makes no sense in the context, since it's one character walking into a room and asking another character if she is by herself. However, in another context, like Hellsing ep #1, doing "hitori" as "One person" is correct as an answer to the question, "How many troops did you send? [A very common phrase] sonna koto nai >> That kind of thing does not exist -- Again, this is literally correct, but doesn't make as much sense as "That's not true" or "It's not like that"--koto means thing/matter/affair/situation/issue, and is more abstract than the English "thing"; it's a very common word in romantic confessions, as in "[name] no koto ga suki desu" > I like you. In fact, in Sakura Diaries, spoiler[when Touma confesses to Urara, he says "Omae no koto..." and cuts off ] but the meaning is understood to the Japanese, or to someone like me who watches too much romantic anime  However, saying the literal "I like your thing" would certainly distort the meaning.
------------- And I don't think I've ever seen anyone outside of bootlegs translate the ubiquitous word "yokatta" as its literal meaning, "It was good"--It's always "I'm glad"/"Thank goodness"/"What a relief," among other possibilities. (yokatta is the past tense of the adjective ii/yoi, meaning "good"--this happense with other words like ureshii (happy) > ureshikatta (was happy)) |
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icepick314
 Posts: 486 Location: Back in the Good Ol' US of A |
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ooops....i meant Escaflowne, NOT Evangelion.... i have watched both dub and sub and i loved dubbing as much....sometimes even more, than subbed.... |
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8459 Location: Penguinopolis |
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Not only is it not too much to ask for a near-perfect translation of the script for the subtitles, but it's also not too much to ask for a close-as-possible translation into English for the dub, or at least as best that can fit within the mouth movements. It's not too much to ask for at all.
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Hullut Sisarukset
 Posts: 38 |
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As a Finn, I wouldn't really have anything to do with American dubs, but the anime DVD supply here is still small and most of the anime has to be bought from the U.S. That is why I hate localization - or "americanizing", as we often call it - I simply have no need for it, as I am no American. The anime series that are being broadcasted on television and that have been bought from the States are a horror to watch. Japanese series should be Japanese, American things American. You don't change storylines of books either when they're being translated, but you can't really compare anime and books like that... but it's not far away.
I have watched Gakkou no Kaidan -fansubs (I prefer subs, being from a Nordic country) and I really liked the anime because of its serious atmosphere and exciting story. I hate the idea of "impro-dubbing", as I've heard ADV dubbed it. "Dubbing" and "improvising" in the same sentence make a paradox. If the meaning is only to make it more understandable to American audience, why change the story or the characters? I'm sad that Gakkou no Kaidan had to go through this - the books are popular in Japan, I've heard. So, when I get my hands on the anime, I will buy the original Japanese DVDs. |
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ladholyman
 Posts: 56 |
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Then again watching the 4kids dub of Magical Doremi made me really scratch my head. Compared with the dub version in Taiwan I saw 2 years ago, I was wondering if I am watching the same show. Changed music, changed character names, plot scenes cut, and wow, even the magical incantations changed. That's a dub that's, in my opinion, not really good.
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Stueypark
Posts: 116 |
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and it's not even the broad translations but any writer will also tend to have subtle word play which will normally not translate at all, especially when it comes to word order.
If you look at the old murder mystery type line of "the murderer is bob!" but when switching languages sentence structure can move words around to what's correct int he new grammatical structure so it could become "bob is the murderer" which, while still correct, loses the suspense and tension of the original line. |
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Yashouzoid
 Posts: 411 |
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After seeing Naruto's dub, I'm hoping that it'll stop the whole "It needs to be localized to make it good!" crap. |
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