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Honey & Clover - your opinions on it


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IchigoK90



Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 1634
Location: Scarborough, Ontario
PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:59 pm Reply with quote
I'm on the latest episode right now and from what i've seen, it has turned out to be one of my most favourite series. From the one of a kind characters to the comedy to............well MORITA!. This series has appealed to me to my surprise. The one thing that got me hooked onto this series was..............(drum roll please) M.O.R.I.T.A. But after awhile the other characters became just as interesting as Morita. Though I had a problem with Hagu in the first episode because I was like wtf! she's really 18, OMG! Anyways just wondering if other people have enjoyed this series like me. Also who else thinks Morita is one of the best anime characters ever?
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abunai
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Joined: 05 Mar 2004
Posts: 5463
Location: 露命
PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:06 pm Reply with quote
No, no... Ayu for the win.

Yes, Honey & Clover is brilliant. It has been rapidly moving up my list of top favourites, and I do believe it's going to shoulder out Haibane Renmei from the #1 spot. However, I'm reserving judgement until the end of the series.

And yes, Morita is great fun. Truly an artist's soul.... or a loon. A bit of both, I guess.

That game of Twister, Morita-style... ouch.

- abunai
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GoodLuckSaturday



Joined: 30 Oct 2003
Posts: 567
Location: Indiana
PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 8:12 pm Reply with quote
abunai wrote:
That game of Twister, Morita-style... ouch.


What a great part in the series. This series is a comedic gem. I also laughed harder than I thought I could during the scene where Takemoto is describing the feeling he has in possibly seeing Morita's room. I watched that episode during lunch at work one day, and I was probably annoying any and everyone who heard me.

I loved Morita, but one thing still irks me about him: what was his deal during the shopping trip with Hagu? His actions in that scene were quite odd, and I came close to actually hating him, which is ironic, considering Hagu was the character that took the longest for me to warm up to, while Morita was the first.

The series itself though is amazing. Like abunai said, the series is moving up on my list of favorites rather quickly, but I don't think it'll get as high on my list. We'll see what the last few episodes hold. I was pretty close to giving up the series after the second episode, since I wasn't overly impressed with it, and Hagu was kind of annoying to me then, but I decided to just stick with it more on that I wasn't watching much else, and it ended up being a favorite of mine by episode six.
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Ohoni



Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Posts: 3421
PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:09 pm Reply with quote
I love H&C too. I was very disapointed that there weren't more Hagu-chan cosplayers at Otakon, with little orphan annie circles over their eyes. Wink

And yeah, Morita-san is a great character, especially in the scene when they were watching tv in the hospital.

Quote:
I loved Morita, but one thing still irks me about him: what was his deal during the shopping trip with Hagu?


Morita was being Morita. Hagu wanted him to be something more. Morita clearly had no interest in her date-wise, and to him she was just somebody along for the ride. He's classicaly a semi-autistic artistic genius, like she is, so they do have a lot in common, but his psychology makes it hard for him to reltate to people as you would expect a normal human would. I don't think he intended to upset her, he just wasn't giving her the responses she had every right to expect.

I hope he ends up with Ayu though. They'd make a cute couple.
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dormcat
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Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 9902
Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:03 am Reply with quote
Ohoni wrote:
I hope he ends up with Ayu though. They'd make a cute couple.

I have yet read tankoubon vol. 2 and beyond; however, judge this title picture yourself:


I do feel a bit sorry for Mayama. He might end up with no one. Sad

(Where's Bruce Lee?)
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Bruce Lee



Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Posts: 715
Location: Seattle, Washington
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:44 am Reply with quote
dormcat wrote:

I do feel a bit sorry for Mayama. He might end up with no one. Sad

Except for Leader, apparently. Laughing

I want him to have a happy ending.spoiler[ I was hoping he would finally seal the deal with Rika, but no. I thought maybe he'd wise up and look to Ayu, but now that doesn't look like it's going to happen, either. He may just be hopeless.]

My current hope is for Takemoto to stop being so melodramatic spoiler[and talk to Hagu already. It seemed like he was making progress in the hospital - even Mayama and Ayu tried to help him by keeping Shu-chan out. But Morita's return ruined that. Hopefully this current excursion will help him clear his head, and set his eyes back on the prize.]

Morita... Well, in the beginning, he was great. But now that I've grown fond of the other characters, his antics are getting a little tired.
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Freedom's Justice



Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Posts: 43
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 1:04 am Reply with quote
I LOVED EVERY EPISODE OF IT Anime hyper The humor is so good i laughed hard! i have never seen an anime that made me laugh as hard as H & C since Galaxy Angels Anime hyper I wonder how wil they end the series?
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IchigoK90



Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 1634
Location: Scarborough, Ontario
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 1:05 pm Reply with quote
Ohoni wrote:
I hope he ends up with Ayu though. They'd make a cute couple.


I thought that too until Nomiya showed up. Now it seems she is leaning more towards him than Morita. As for Mayama............I think he'll go back to stalking her as in Rika-san. I also didn't get the bicycle thing in the beginning until the latest episode.
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abunai
Old Regular


Joined: 05 Mar 2004
Posts: 5463
Location: 露命
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 8:42 pm Reply with quote
In a now-deleted post, Ohoni wrote:
Nomiya's a dick, he clearly shouldn't end up with anyone.

I find it amazing that so many people, having seen this series (or rather, the part of it that has aired so far), have walked away from it with negative feelings towards some of the characters.

It seems that every forum has its share of vocal "anti-fans" of Mayama, or Nomiya, or even Takemoto. Always with some argument in favour of their rabid dislikes:

"Mayama is indecisive, he should forget about Rika and be with Ayu."
"Nomiya is such a playboy - he's obviously up to no good."
"Takemoto is such a wimp."


Well, in my opinion, these people have managed to completely miss a vital point of the series: these are realistic characters, not cardboard figures. They live, love, make mistakes and suffer from the same imperfections as the rest of us. That's what makes the series so great.

Mayama isn't indecisive. He knows what he wants, though it is tearing him apart that he is unlikely to get it. He also knows that he is hurting Ayu terribly, and for a variety of reasons he can't bring himself to make a clean break of it. So he's fallible - isn't that just normal for a human being? And he loves Rika, however unrequitedly, not Ayu - why should he violate his own feelings to satisfy Ayu's love? Is that reasonable?

Nomiya is a playboy, sure - at least, he certainly has the confidence and the moves for one, though I suspect he's somewhat less of a womanizer than he likes to pretend. But if you look at his actions, he's a genuinely honest and righteous person. He's as flawed as Mayama, in a slightly different way - but the point is repeatedly made that Mayama is just a younger version of Nomiya. Even their personal names (Takumi) are pronounced the same way, though not identical - the kanji used are amusingly different.

Then there's Takemoto. I am continually surprised by the amount of vitriol that he brings forth in people. What is it that people have against him? Unlike the others, he is indecisive, yes - but only because he can't see a clear path ahead of him. He has plenty of skill, but unlike Morita or Hagu-chan or Ayu, he isn't a genius. He keeps ruminating on the fact that he has no clear plan for his future, and it bothers him. Yet next to him, we have Morita, a lunatic genius who very clearly not only has no plan for the future, but doesn't want one. Takemoto can't surrender himself to uncontrolled chaos like Morita, and he can't match Hagu-chan's obsession with her art - what is he to do? So he worries. In my book, that makes him a tragic figure, and a likeable character. I can't see why others assess it as something negative.

Bottom line: whenever I hear someone complaining about this character or the other, in simplistic terms (So "Nomiya is a dick"? is the sum total of your critique of Nomiya, Ohoni? Really?), I usually chalk it down to them not having grasped the depth of the character. Too, I believe there is a certain amount of intrinsic self-hatred in such remarks - we tend to reserve the most anger for those perceived character traits in others which we most loathe about ourselves, or most envy in others.

While I was writing this reply, Ohoni's post was removed. I hope I do not offend by proceeding with my response regardless of this, and quoting his post in full. I realize it defeats the purpose of deletion - but even so, I found it necessary to raise this point.


As for myself, I genuinely like every single character in Honey & Clover. I see them, with all their flaws and foibles, as sympathetic and good people - each with a different path to follow in life, and some with a clearer view of it than others. But they're all good people.

- abunai
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Ohoni



Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Posts: 3421
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 10:11 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Well, in my opinion, these people have managed to completely miss a vital point of the series: these are realistic characters, not cardboard figures. They live, love, make mistakes and suffer from the same imperfections as the rest of us. That's what makes the series so great.


This is true, but I wouldn't like the guy in real life either. Those guys ruin it for the rest of us.

Quote:

Nomiya is a playboy, sure - at least, he certainly has the confidence and the moves for one, though I suspect he's somewhat less of a womanizer than he likes to pretend. But if you look at his actions, he's a genuinely honest and righteous person.


They also heavilly hint, though the interactions of his coworkers, that he has a "love'em and leave'em" potential here. He pushes buttons to get the job done. Mayama was never like that.

Quote:
Bottom line: whenever I hear someone complaining about this character or the other, in simplistic terms (So "Nomiya is a dick"? is the sum total of your critique of Nomiya, Ohoni? Really?)


Yes, I have much more complex critiques of the actual primary cast of the series, but that pretty much sums up everything that needs to be said about Nomiya. I wouldn't, for example, sum Mayama up as a "creepy stalker", because while he is that, he's also got a lot more going on. We've seen no hint of that in Nomiya though.

Quote:
Too, I believe there is a certain amount of intrinsic self-hatred in such remarks - we tend to reserve the most anger for those perceived character traits in others which we most loathe about ourselves, or most envy in others.


Probably more the latter than the former in this case.

Also, on a side note, I'm tired of posts just vanishing. If you don't like a post, edit it, or even just change the body to "moderated" or something. Don't make it vanish as if it never existed, because that's just really confusing. "Was my post moderated or was there an error in posting it or did I just forget to hit 'submit'?"
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Depression



Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 84
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 10:35 pm Reply with quote
abunai wrote:
Well, in my opinion, these people have managed to completely miss a vital point of the series: these are realistic characters, not cardboard figures. They live, love, make mistakes and suffer from the same imperfections as the rest of us. That's what makes the series so great.


I love this series for this point. The characters and the situations that they are put in are realistic and slightly unpredictable. Where you have, characters bring up questions about what they are going to do in the future. As well as how they react to one another and what happens when they find out someone else is in love with them. It is not instant true love like in other Animes. They also show a dark side of love, rejection which many other series leave out. Yet some things that are unrealistic, such as when Morita won that award.

Because of they are going through some of the same things that I am. (I.e. what am I going to do after college?) I find that I can relate to them more and not that it is just some random show that I am watching.
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IchigoK90



Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 1634
Location: Scarborough, Ontario
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 11:02 pm Reply with quote
depression wrote:
I love this series for this point. The characters and the situations that they are put in are realistic and slightly unpredictable. Where you have, characters bring up questions about what they are going to do in the future. As well as how they react to one another and what happens when they find out someone else is in love with them. It is not instant true love like in other Animes. They also show a dark side of love, rejection which many other series leave out. Yet some things that are unrealistic, such as when Morita won that award.

Because of they are going through some of the same things that I am. (I.e. what am I going to do after college?) I find that I can relate to them more and not that it is just some random show that I am watching.


I know just how you feel (at least I think I do). Even though i'm just in highschool I think about alot of the stuff that takemoto thinks about and I get worried, but then my friends tell me to enjoy what few years we have left in highschool.
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angel_lover



Joined: 22 Apr 2005
Posts: 645
Location: UK
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 3:11 am Reply with quote
Oh dear, am I the only person in the world who didn't like it? I accept the point that the characterisations are complex and realistic, but they just didn't engage me. Well, it would be fair to say that i found Hagumi's character just plain annoying rather than non-engaging. I just can't understand how abunai could say that it could supplant Haibane Renmei's #1 position...
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abunai
Old Regular


Joined: 05 Mar 2004
Posts: 5463
Location: 露命
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 3:50 am Reply with quote
abunai wrote:
Bottom line: whenever I hear someone complaining about this character or the other, in simplistic terms (So "Nomiya is a dick"? is the sum total of your critique of Nomiya, Ohoni? Really?), I usually chalk it down to them not having grasped the depth of the character. Too, I believe there is a certain amount of intrinsic self-hatred in such remarks - we tend to reserve the most anger for those perceived character traits in others which we most loathe about ourselves, or most envy in others.


plus:

Ohoni wrote:
Quote:
Well, in my opinion, these people have managed to completely miss a vital point of the series: these are realistic characters, not cardboard figures. They live, love, make mistakes and suffer from the same imperfections as the rest of us. That's what makes the series so great.


This is true, but I wouldn't like the guy in real life either. Those guys ruin it for the rest of us.


equals:

I think I made my point, and Ohoni (albeit unwittingly) confirmed it.

IchigoK90 wrote:
depression wrote:
I love this series for this point. The characters and the situations that they are put in are realistic and slightly unpredictable. Where you have, characters bring up questions about what they are going to do in the future. As well as how they react to one another and what happens when they find out someone else is in love with them. It is not instant true love like in other Animes. They also show a dark side of love, rejection which many other series leave out. Yet some things that are unrealistic, such as when Morita won that award.

Because of they are going through some of the same things that I am. (I.e. what am I going to do after college?) I find that I can relate to them more and not that it is just some random show that I am watching.


I know just how you feel (at least I think I do). Even though i'm just in highschool I think about alot of the stuff that takemoto thinks about and I get worried, but then my friends tell me to enjoy what few years we have left in highschool.


I have unpleasant news for you: it never ends. You're faced with this sort of agonising introspection for the rest of your life. Still, it passes the time... Wink

- abunai
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Ohoni



Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Posts: 3421
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 5:25 am Reply with quote
Quote:


I think I made my point, and Ohoni (albeit unwittingly) confirmed it.


If your point was that H&C features realistic characters then I never disagreed. I just didn't like one of them, because I don't like people in real life that behave like that guy. I don't know where your antagonism springs from on this.

I reiterate, Nomiya is a dick.
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