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NEWS: Nelvana Funds 2 Western-Exclusive Beyblade Sequel Series


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Myaow



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 1068
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:01 pm Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
That's not comparable at all. All the Yu-Gi-Oh series (minus Toei's since it's by another studio and non-canon) have a lot of the same people working on it. The same guys who worked on Duel Monsters, GX, and 5D's also worked on Zexal. It is by the original Japanese creators and writers, so it's not comparable to when an unrelated company makes something new.


But what about Kazuki Takahashi, who is the actual literal "original creator"? I've heard varying things about how much input he's had in GX/5D's/Zexal and the consensus seems to be "not a lot." The two situations seem mighty similar to me!!
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TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:45 pm Reply with quote
Not really. He does work on Zexal like main character designs and lore/idea outlines even if he's not behind writing every episode, but regardless we're talking about the anime, not manga. Yu-Gi-Oh is in the same category as Detective Conan in that the anime has become far more popular and beloved over the manga. In that regard, the anime team has been there since day one and Zexal has has writers and composers from the original Duel Monsters. It's all the same company, after all. For the record, do you even watch these franchises? It sounds like you're just picking a tangibly relating subject without knowing the history behind it.

mdo7 wrote:
Again, you're OK with Japan handling and adapting American stuff but when it's American/west handling Japanese stuff, OMG, the west is evil and they ruin it.


Because 'western adaption' remind us of stuff like Captain N, Mega Man, American Sailor Moon pilot, and other heavily watered down adaptions for little children because they're viewed as nothing more than 'children's properties'. With Japanese adaptions the opposite is usually true so I'm more willing to give Japan the benefit of the doubt when I hear about the rare 'anime adaption' because my mind doesn't instantly think "Oh, well, they're probably going to avoid all the homosexual characters, the fanservice, the overarching storyline, the character designs will be simplified" and other stuff I said when I heard about the American Sailor Moon and American Duel Masters cartoon adaptions because that kind of stuff just flat out does not fly in kids animation here like it does in the Japanese versions of these shows.
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:57 pm Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:

enurtsol wrote:

TitanXL wrote:

That's like saying Japanese otaku think Madoka is bad because they "stopped supporting it". A series ending is not the same as it not being supported. The main villain was killed and the story concluded.

Because kids series are typically less about the characters/story and more about whatever products the sponsors are trying to sell. A new villain, a new hero, a new storyline, etc...... as long as the kids are still intrigued by the products. (They died at the end of the first Sailor Moon. Precure is still going strong.)


That's an incredibly petty view to have, especially when most anime is made to shill a product. Either to kids (Sailor Moon, One Piece, Super Sentai/Kamen Rider) or to adults (Madoka, otaku anime in general) Just because it hawks merchandise doesn't make it bad or "the characters and story doesn't matter",


But we're not talking about quality in this case; don't lose sight what we were talking about. We were talking about a series continuing because its audience keep supporting it. So whatever the quality of the Japanese Beyblade, if Japanese kids don't support it, while Western kids support their version, as long as they're still intrigued by its products, even if it's a new story or new hero or new villain, then simply good for them.

Here, I'll even give you one of our favorite examples: Powerpuff Girls. America pretty much stopped supporting making more PPG, while Japan made their own version PPGZ. To me it's bad, and according to you, "when you take a property the original creators decided they were done with and you decide to throw something together" that's bad......... But no, if the Japanese kids enjoy it, then that's OK. They can enjoy something of their own without us co-opting it from them. And if they keep supporting their version, then go ahead make more, and that's OK too. Whether Japan or the West, Transformers or otherwise, it goes both ways.
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6248
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:41 pm Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:

mdo7 wrote:
Again, you're OK with Japan handling and adapting American stuff but when it's American/west handling Japanese stuff, OMG, the west is evil and they ruin it.


Because 'western adaption' remind us of stuff like Captain N, Mega Man, American Sailor Moon pilot, and other heavily watered down adaptions for little children because they're viewed as nothing more than 'children's properties'. With Japanese adaptions the opposite is usually true so I'm more willing to give Japan the benefit of the doubt when I hear about the rare 'anime adaption' because my mind doesn't instantly think "Oh, well, they're probably going to avoid all the homosexual characters, the fanservice, the overarching storyline, the character designs will be simplified" and other stuff I said when I heard about the American Sailor Moon and American Duel Masters cartoon adaptions because that kind of stuff just flat out does not fly in kids animation here like it does in the Japanese versions of these shows.


It doesn't matter, when American stuff get a Japanese exclusive spin-off or sequel, it's no different from American adaptation of Japanese stuff. Japan doing a Beast Wars 2 and Beast War Neo anime is no different from Nelvana doing 2 western-exclusive Beyblade sequel shows.

Also Enurtsol is correct (and I want to thank you Enurtsol for bringing up Powerpuff Girl and it's Japanese adaptation counterpart, Powerpuff Girl Z), yeah Japan doing a Powerpuff Girl anime is just like what Nelvana is doing to Beyblade.

See, TitanXL, you're pulling double standard and you're being one-sided, you give Japan a free pass whenever they do something similar what US would do.
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Primus



Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Posts: 2758
Location: Toronto
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:17 am Reply with quote
Again, if Beywheelz (the first western exclusive Beyblade spinoff) is anything to go by, these shows will be written and animated in Japan by the same staff that did Metal Fight Beyblade with a separate cast of characters. This is not Nelvana producing a Beyblade series at their Toronto studio.

Japanese fans likely will take note of Beyblade: Shogun Steel's western broadcast as it'll feature episodes not found in theirs due to the show getting canceled.
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Myaow



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 1068
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:54 am Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
For the record, do you even watch these franchises? It sounds like you're just picking a tangibly relating subject without knowing the history behind it.


has traumatic flashbacks to the year 2005. writing 10000 fanfictions about noa. years spent researching about ancient egypt to form elaborate headcanons about which dynasty atem was part of and what every single minor character's past incarnation was. making mary sues to vicariously live out the dream of smoochin judai. begins to sweat profusely

n-n-n-n-no what are you talking about I've never even watched an episode
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jr240483



Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 4369
Location: New York City,New York,USA
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:44 pm Reply with quote
WeirDiE_InC wrote:
It seems Nelvana's hand in the Beyblade franchise will continue for a long time. Which is kind of a surprise to me since they recently said that it was bringing them down.


I was kinda hoping Nelvana will go six feet under right along with 4kids. But this news squashed that idea.

i guess with this news there will no original japaneese version for the heavy metal series which unfortunately benefits the fansubbers & illegal streamers , which i bet have a part in the Q2 profit drop cause instead of watching the series on CN , their watching the fansub version online. If i was the exces for Corus , i would eitther get with the program and release the original japaneese version with real subs for DVD or have them on Hulu , or just drop licensing anime series before the profit losses from Nelvana takes Corus Ent with it.


mdo7 wrote:


See, TitanXL, you're pulling double standard and you're being one-sided, you give Japan a free pass whenever they do something similar what US would do.


You shouldn't be susprised since that user have been a long time nelvana supporter. especially when it comes to kids series like bakguan or beyblade.
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TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4036
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:53 pm Reply with quote
enurtsol wrote:
So whatever the quality of the Japanese Beyblade, if Japanese kids don't support it, while Western kids support their version, as long as they're still intrigued by its products, even if it's a new story or new hero or new villain, then simply good for them.


Why did you ignore the "ending it is not the same as not supporting it" point? There's a huge difference. Not that it even matters to begin with.

Quote:
Here, I'll even give you one of our favorite examples: Powerpuff Girls. America pretty much stopped supporting making more PPG, while Japan made their own version PPGZ. To me it's bad, and according to you, "when you take a property the original creators decided they were done with and you decide to throw something together" that's bad......... But no, if the Japanese kids enjoy it, then that's OK. They can enjoy something of their own without us co-opting it from them. And if they keep supporting their version, then go ahead make more, and that's OK too. Whether Japan or the West, Transformers or otherwise, it goes both ways.


Well for starters, Powerpuff Girls Z is completely unrelated to the original Powerpuff Girls. It's not a 'continuation' or 'new adventures' like these shows try to be in the same universe/continuity.

Second, Powerpuff Girls had no story or artistic merit to begin with and it was an episodic children's show. Powerpuff Girls Z was actually the series with an overall plot, character development, and other things. You can't really ruin the story of a show that had no story to begin with (and people would argue it ruined itself already with post-movie seasons)

Also, Powerpuff Girls Z is amusing because it ties into what I mentioned before. In PPGZ Sedusa could actually seduce people because groping boobs, fanservice, nudity, and sexual content isn't banned like it is in western kids shows. All she could do in the American version was kiss people.

Primus wrote:
Again, if Beywheelz (the first western exclusive Beyblade spinoff) is anything to go by, these shows will be written and animated in Japan by the same staff that did Metal Fight Beyblade with a separate cast of characters. This is not Nelvana producing a Beyblade series at their Toronto studio.


Just because the Japanese studio animates it doesn't change the nature of it. That's what commissioning is since they don't have the resources or skills to do it themselves. 4Kids commissioning Capsule Monsters for Yu-Gi-Oh and it being animated by Studio Gallop was no different.

Quote:
Japanese fans likely will take note of Beyblade: Shogun Steel's western broadcast as it'll feature episodes not found in theirs due to the show getting canceled.


They didn't care about "Beywheelz", so I doubt that. These types of things are generally looked down upon in the Japanese fandom. Japanese YGO fans still make fun of 4Kids/Pyramid of Light/Capsule Monsters to this day, unfortunately.
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Snomaster1
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Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:07 pm Reply with quote
So,Nelvana's going to do two "Beyblade" sequel series. It'll be interesting to see how they'll pull it off. If I were doing an American version of "Beyblade,"I not only would have a Japanese person in the series as a salute to the Japanese creators,I'd also have a couple of Canadian characters in there as well. I'd have a Canadian immigrant who's a beyblader who wears a polar bear t-shirt and his girlfriend who's also a Canadian immigrant. And they'd both look like Dan Kuso and Runo Misaki,two characters from the "Bakugan" tv series. What do you guys think about that? Smile
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musouka



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 705
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:31 pm Reply with quote
Myaow wrote:
But what about Kazuki Takahashi, who is the actual literal "original creator"? I've heard varying things about how much input he's had in GX/5D's/Zexal and the consensus seems to be "not a lot." The two situations seem mighty similar to me!!


He has more than you might expect considering the circumstances. Reading his interview in Duel Art was interesting in that regard because he's pretty obviously a member of the team that creates the shows, since he can talk about the processes that go into the creative portion. Also, a lot of the characters he designs have notes about characterization.

And, hey, I love Zexal. It has it's problems, but what series doesn't?
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Myaow



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 1068
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:15 pm Reply with quote
musouka wrote:
Reading his interview in Duel Art was interesting in that regard because he's pretty obviously a member of the team that creates the shows, since he can talk about the processes that go into the creative portion. Also, a lot of the characters he designs have notes about characterization.


Neato sweeto, I'd seen his character design pictures before but I never saw the notes! I wanna read those, I bet they'd be pretty interesting...
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14746
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:28 pm Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
enurtsol wrote:
So whatever the quality of the Japanese Beyblade, if Japanese kids don't support it, while Western kids support their version, as long as they're still intrigued by its products, even if it's a new story or new hero or new villain, then simply good for them.


Why did you ignore the "ending it is not the same as not supporting it" point? There's a huge difference. Not that it even matters to begin with.


You're right; it matters not to begin with. With enough continued support, an ending can be continued. But without enough support, then might as well keep it ended.


TitanXL wrote:

Quote:
Here, I'll even give you one of our favorite examples: Powerpuff Girls. America pretty much stopped supporting making more PPG, while Japan made their own version PPGZ. To me it's bad, and according to you, "when you take a property the original creators decided they were done with and you decide to throw something together" that's bad......... But no, if the Japanese kids enjoy it, then that's OK. They can enjoy something of their own without us co-opting it from them. And if they keep supporting their version, then go ahead make more, and that's OK too. Whether Japan or the West, Transformers or otherwise, it goes both ways.


Well for starters, Powerpuff Girls Z is completely unrelated to the original Powerpuff Girls. It's not a 'continuation' or 'new adventures' like these shows try to be in the same universe/continuity.


That's absurd - by definition, PPGZ cannot be completely unrelated to PPG because the former is based on the latter, based on the characters, the villains, the premise, the setup. Just because there are differences do not make it unrelated at all. Just like the different Transformers series or a Western Beyblade with its own universe - it's still based on the original, so it cannot be completely unrelated.


TitanXL wrote:

Second, Powerpuff Girls had no story or artistic merit to begin with and it was an episodic children's show. Powerpuff Girls Z was actually the series with an overall plot, character development, and other things. You can't really ruin the story of a show that had no story to begin with (and people would argue it ruined itself already with post-movie seasons)


You're making the mistake of narrowing your factors to only story. Yes you could ruin a series, story or no story. Sazae-san or Crayon Shin-chan has as much story (or lack thereof) as PPG, and it can be ruined. There are a lot of ways to ruin a series; story is just one of them. You can ruin the characters, the relationships, the jokes, etc. Furthermore, having little story does not automatically invalidate a series (or the reverse, a story does not automatically validate a series - many story series are crap like PPGZ). For instance, slice-of-life or episodic series don't really have a story worth scrutinizing, but their fans can enjoy those for the other factors, such as character relationships or the funny stuff.


TitanXL wrote:

Also, Powerpuff Girls Z is amusing because it ties into what I mentioned before. In PPGZ Sedusa could actually seduce people because groping boobs, fanservice, nudity, and sexual content isn't banned like it is in western kids shows. All she could do in the American version was kiss people.


See, this is exactly my point. Your an adult trying to co-opt a kids show; you're looking for animated girls to fap to. Guess what? PPG doesn't need to have fappable girls to be good to its audience, and the same with Beyblade to its Western audience. A kids show could just simply be a good kids show to kids, and you have to realize that that's fine.

Anyhow before we veer this thread too far off-track, just to bring this back to the original discussion, whatever Beyblade was to its Japanese kids audience, fanservice or otherwise, if they don't support it, then it won't be continued and thus didn't work. Whatever the Western Beyblade is to its audience, fanservice or not, if they support it, then it'd be continued and obviously it worked, good for them. It doesn't have to appeal to adults, and that's OK.
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Hitokiri Kenshin



Joined: 14 Feb 2012
Posts: 291
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:01 pm Reply with quote
jr0904 wrote:
WeirDiE_InC wrote:
It seems Nelvana's hand in the Beyblade franchise will continue for a long time. Which is kind of a surprise to me since they recently said that it was bringing them down.


I was kinda hoping Nelvana will go six feet under right along with 4kids. But this news squashed that idea.

i guess with this news there will no original japaneese version for the heavy metal series which unfortunately benefits the fansubbers & illegal streamers , which i bet have a part in the Q2 profit drop cause instead of watching the series on CN , their watching the fansub version online. If i was the exces for Corus , i would eitther get with the program and release the original japaneese version with real subs for DVD or have them on Hulu , or just drop licensing anime series before the profit losses from Nelvana takes Corus Ent with it.


mdo7 wrote:


See, TitanXL, you're pulling double standard and you're being one-sided, you give Japan a free pass whenever they do something similar what US would do.


You shouldn't be susprised since that user have been a long time nelvana supporter. especially when it comes to kids series like bakguan or beyblade.


Nelvana's not that bad. Tintin was pretty good, and I liked the Beetlejuice cartoon much more than the Beetlejuice movie. Magic School Bus was pretty good as well. As for Beyblade being subbed, I don't think it has the audience who'd want to see it subbed. When the original was on, most guys I knew described it as a show at the time, no one over 14 watched.
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Primus



Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Posts: 2758
Location: Toronto
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:17 am Reply with quote
jr0904 wrote:
WeirDiE_InC wrote:
It seems Nelvana's hand in the Beyblade franchise will continue for a long time. Which is kind of a surprise to me since they recently said that it was bringing them down.


I was kinda hoping Nelvana will go six feet under right along with 4kids. But this news squashed that idea.

i guess with this news there will no original japaneese version for the heavy metal series which unfortunately benefits the fansubbers & illegal streamers , which i bet have a part in the Q2 profit drop cause instead of watching the series on CN , their watching the fansub version online. If i was the exces for Corus , i would eitther get with the program and release the original japaneese version with real subs for DVD or have them on Hulu , or just drop licensing anime series before the profit losses from Nelvana takes Corus Ent with i


The majority of Nelvana's Beyblade revenue comes from product licensing. So piracy isn't a major concern, nor is Beyblade a heavily fansubbed franchise.

Your goal of wanting Nelvana dead is hilarious given how successful it and their parent company is.
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Primus



Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Posts: 2758
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:17 am Reply with quote
jr0904 wrote:
WeirDiE_InC wrote:
It seems Nelvana's hand in the Beyblade franchise will continue for a long time. Which is kind of a surprise to me since they recently said that it was bringing them down.


I was kinda hoping Nelvana will go six feet under right along with 4kids. But this news squashed that idea.

i guess with this news there will no original japaneese version for the heavy metal series which unfortunately benefits the fansubbers & illegal streamers , which i bet have a part in the Q2 profit drop cause instead of watching the series on CN , their watching the fansub version online. If i was the exces for Corus , i would eitther get with the program and release the original japaneese version with real subs for DVD or have them on Hulu , or just drop licensing anime series before the profit losses from Nelvana takes Corus Ent with i


The majority of Nelvana's Beyblade revenue comes from product licensing. So piracy isn't a major concern, nor is Beyblade a heavily fansubbed franchise.

Your goal of wanting Nelvana dead is hilarious given how successful it and their parent company is.
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