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Otaku Teahouse wrote:

I absolutely love Fractale, and I really like Princess Jellyfish as well. Noitamina is kind of like the indie animation timeslot for Japan, so it doesn't surprise me that they aren't getting good ratings... I think the best thing they ever had was Eden of the East, but they seem to have screwed the pooch by not giving that a decent end.

I have those sentiments exactly. They definitely could have ended Eden of the East better.

Thanks, yuna49 (assuming your sources are giving you good data).

Graphing out the averages, there are two ways of interpreting this:

1) The time slot did really well (between 3.25 and 4.8) until Kuchuu Buranko/Trapeze, at which point the time slot started to nosedive. Nodame Cantabile: Finale was the exception because it was the conclusion of a very popular franchise.

2) Trapeze was the exception, on the grounds of its extreme weirdness, and the time slot only started nosediving once it expanded into a full hour.

I guess I lean towards the latter, because there's maybe an explanation for the nosedive (how many of the more mainstream viewers are going to stay up an extra half an hour?). Do you have any data on the individual shows once noitaminA doubled, i.e. earlier vs later?

enurtsol wrote:

It's just like any TV block - after awhile, it loses its freshness, and people get indifferent to it.
And then it's time to move on and think of something else new and fresh and capture people's attention again.
It has had a good long run.

Now now, it's still fresh. Largely. I don't see too many shows like Tatami Galaxy and Wandering Son, and I mean that in a good way. They aren't stale products that harken back to a bygone era, which is what Fractale reminds me of (there is a good reason why the 80s are over, and I'm not referring to the onwards march of time).

I think the low ratings are sad, but the timeslot is still turning out respectable series. Even Fractale is okay, sort of. Kind of. Anyway, I really don't think we should blame the creators for the poor commercial success. I blame the marketers. Well, them and the producers, although I'm not sure just how much they are (or are not) involved in the actual conceptual and artistic design. I also blame the fans. Come on, Wandering Son may not start in the same place as the Manga, but it is still a first-rate series, the second-best of a very good season (after Puella Magi Madoka Magica).

Why are "fans" so fickle?

Reordered by date if anyone is curious:

Avg 　High　 Low
＝＝　　＝＝　　＝＝
3.05　　4.2　　2.0　　 Honey & Clover
3.19　　4.4　　2.5　　 Paradise Kiss
3.51　　5.0　　2.3　　～ayakashi～
3.50　　4.9　　2.7　　 Jyu Oh Sei
3.25　　4.2　　1.9　　 Honey & Clover II
4.01　　5.1　　3.1　　 Hatarakiman
4.44　　5.5　　3.1　　 Nodame Cantabile
3.48　　4.8　　1.6　　 Mononoke
4.56　　5.3　　3.8　　 Moyasimon
4.80　　5.8　　2.8　　 Hakaba Kitaro
3.48　　4.6　　2.8　　 Library Wars
3.45　　4.5　　2.6　　Antique Bakery
4.63　　6.6　　3.7　　 Nodame Cantabile Pari-hen
3.33　　4.2　　2.5　　Genji Monogatari Sennenki
3.96　　5.0　　3.0　　 Eden of the East
3.56　　5.8　　2.0　　 Tokyo Magnitude 8.0
2.61　　3.9　　1.5　　 Kuuchuu Buranko
3.25　　4.9　　2.1　　 Nodame Cantabile Finale
2.06　　2.9　　1.5　　 Tatami Galaxy + House of Five Leaves
2.56　　3.4　　2.0　　 Moyasimon + Shiki
2.3　　 Kuragehime + Shiki
1.9　　 Fractale ＋ Hourou Musuko

Also, as per request: A nice graph.

vashfanatic wrote:

Thanks, yuna49 (assuming your sources are giving you good data).

All these data are released "under-the-table" as it were. From what I understand, they're posted by people in the Japanese television industry. The figures generally come from Video Research, the Japanese equivalent of Nielsen. There's a fairly complete archive of ratings starting in 2000 posted here. I've looked at these pages from time to time using Google Translate and laughed at how some of the show titles convert to English. Comparing the timeslots with Mahou Showtime helps to identify some of the less obvious translations.

Quote:

Graphing out the averages, there are two ways of interpreting this:

1) The time slot did really well (between 3.25 and 4.8) until Kuchuu Buranko/Trapeze, at which point the time slot started to nosedive. Nodame Cantabile: Finale was the exception because it was the conclusion of a very popular franchise.

2) Trapeze was the exception, on the grounds of its extreme weirdness, and the time slot only started nosediving once it expanded into a full hour.

I guess I lean towards the latter, because there's maybe an explanation for the nosedive (how many of the more mainstream viewers are going to stay up an extra half an hour?)

I think there's a third possible explanation, not too different from your first alternative. The success of the Bakeneko arc and its sequel, Mononoke, raised expectations for Nakamura's Trapeze. When the show finally aired, it just wasn't what the viewers (myself included) were expecting. I've wondered whether a good chunk of the audience left Noitamina at that point and have never returned. DVD sales figures support this view. Mononoke averaged over 12,000 units per volume in Japan. Volume 1 of Trapeze sold just over 2,000; by volume 4 the figure was down around 250.

Quote:

Do you have any data on the individual shows once noitaminA doubled, i.e. earlier vs later?

As far as I know, the only data available since the time slot expanded are these combined figures. I have seen a couple of numbers that support your hypothesis of more viewing in the first half-hour, but it's hard to know whether that's a result of the times they aired or the relative appeal of the two programs. For instance, on 11/04 Kuragehime reportedly garnered a 3.7 while Shiki got a 2.4.

well, since it's related I'll just refer to posts of sales figures at:
animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=1097221#1097221
as I mentioned there, it not suprising that a show sales figures sucks no matter what it is--noitaminA or not, whatever and I mean literally, whatever genre. Having trouble breaking even or just trying to go beyond that seems to be the norm no matter the show.

however I would put almost no stock in TV raitings. Except for the big shounen hits, most anime shows in general, especially late night anime have very low ratings anyways. noitaminA's here isn't so different from the usual. Besides, it doesn't really help the producers if you have high ratings and no sales.

Take for example these tv ratings from asuki, avg calculated using data from http://www.geocities.jp/animesityouritu/
(rank, %, date, title)

15(3.96) 2009.04.09 - 2009.06.18 Eden of the East [11, Production I.G]
16(3.56) 2009.07.09 - 2009.09.17 Tokyo Magnitude 8.0 [11, Bones, Kinema Citrus]
17(2.66) 2009.10.15 - 2009.12.24 Trapeze [11, Toei Animation]
18(3.30) 2010.01.07 - 2010.03.25 Nodame Cantabile Finale [12, J.C.Staff]
ーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーー
19(2.20) 2010.04.15 - 2010.07.01 House of Five Leaves [12, Mangaglobe]
20(2.27) 2010.04.22 - 2010.07.01 The Tatami Galaxi [11, Madhouse]
21(2.56) 2010.07.08 - 2010.09.16 Moyashimon Drama
22(2.47) 2010.07.08 - 2010.12.30 Shiki [22, Daume]
23(2.38) 2010.10.14 - 2010.12.30 Kuragehime [11, Brain's Base]

TM8.0's rating is right next to Eden of the East... and yet there's a huge, gigantic difference in video sales:
TM8.0 average roughly 500 BD copies per vol while:
East of Eden - 3,384 dvd +4,563 bd
East of Eden Movies 1,2 - 3,631 dvd +9,810 bd

likewise with Shiki vs Tatami Galaxy, both are close, yet again a huge difference in video sales -- see my linked thread.

now with Shiki, there is some potential for merch licensing, though the only thing I've seen are t-shirts, bags, towels, no figures yet (and perhaps maybe never)

It's too hard to analyze these ratings without the proper data. We would need to have access to a massive amount of data on the audience then and now, what has changed on all channels during these five years, how do other medium affect not only this specific block but TV itself, how are these series advertised, and much more.

In eleven weeks (duration of most Noitamina shows), the routine of the spectators will most likely readapt to a new habit. To expect that the audience remains loyal (or at least stable) for five years to a time slot that remodels itself every three months is a very big gamble.

I don't get it... Fractale is actually a very good show. Sure, it's pacing issues are pretty big, but the story and characters are great. But why is it on noitaminA? It's kind of out of place. It has tons of action, getting darker, shoune-ish, moe, fanservice... seriously why on noitaminA?

SassyRobot wrote:

That's too bad that the slot is seeing a drop in ratings

TJR wrote:

ikillchicken wrote:

So...what is this? Is this just a Fractale/Wandering Son thing or is this a general noitaminA problem? I haven't seen either yet so I'm not sure. Last I heard, noitaminA was doing great. Have their ratings began to slide more recently?

noitaminA has gone on a downward slide over the past couple years.
[...]
Momentum from shows like Honey & Clover or Nodame Cantabile can only last for so long. They need new titles with equally broad appeal to keep people watching.

Hm interesting and good points. The niche/experimental nature of their shows is part of the appeal but it makes for a delicate balance.

I feel Fractale could have been better if it had a longer run. It presented a world with plenty of potential, but uneven pacing and some other issues hurt it. It's been a decent watch, though. I can't comment about Wandering Son yet.

I really enjoyed the other series of 2010 though; House of Five Leaves, The Tatami Galaxy, Shiki, and Kuragehime (haven't finished Moyashimon drama). Hakaba Kitaro is one of my favourites, along with Mononoke, Tokyo Magnitude 8.0, Ayakashi, Moyashimon...

Honestly, it may have been one of the most popular series, but I never got into Honey & Clover. It was too melodramatic. IMO Toshokan Sensou and Jyu Oh Sei were other weak titles. Actually, now that I think about it, a lot of series in the noitaminA slot could have really benefited from a longer run. Oh well, you could say that about a lot of anime. That's what manga/source material is for?

I don't understand:

Kit-Tsukasa wrote:

Ayakashi - Samurai Horror Tales: decent, but only good if you've seen Mononoke.
Eden of the East - no one watching after the disastrous two movies

Mononoke was a sequel of sorts of Ayakashi (of Goblin Cat). The Eden of the East movies came out after the series had aired...

Exactly. H&C was so melodramatic it was boring. I was like, "Who are these people? And why are they friends?"

So happy that I stuck with Hof5 leaves and Shiki rocked. Those two were a hundred more times fully to me as series than HoTD which I enjoyed as well.

I didn't realize that the noitaminA block used to get ratings numbers up in th 4's on average! I have only followed the TV ratings over the past couple of seasons, mostly because I was interested in seeing how well Zakuro did in the ratings, and I was always impressed that the noitaminA block always had the highest ratings of any late night show. (Zakuro was usually right behind them last season.) From what I recall, that held true this season too. So even if their absolute numbers are down, they are still the highest rated late night show, at least of the ones that show up on the ratings listings that are posted in the comments here on ANN. I personally think that Wandering Son is fantastic, and there is no way they could have done the story any sort of justice starting at 5th grade. Yes, there was quite a bit of manga there, but it doesn't get to the meat until the middle school years. As for Fractale, it was losing me at first, but I kept watching and am glad I did. It picked up at the end of the season and is really looking strong at the finish...

yuna49 wrote:

Quote:

Do you have any data on the individual shows once noitaminA doubled, i.e. earlier vs later?

As far as I know, the only data available since the time slot expanded are these combined figures. I have seen a couple of numbers that support your hypothesis of more viewing in the first half-hour, but it's hard to know whether that's a result of the times they aired or the relative appeal of the two programs. For instance, on 11/04 Kuragehime reportedly garnered a 3.7 while Shiki got a 2.4.

While FujiTV keeps data on the individual series, it was only released some weeks. The one I do recall is that Tatami always beat Five Leaves. Five Leaves was seen as the drag on the block. I don't remember any of the others and less and less of the individual data has been released as time has gone on.

Fractale has been a disappointment (IMO anyway. Better in the first half than the second), and I could see it contributing to the low ratings. Then again, it isn't as if a show about a boy who wants to be a girl, and a girl who wants to be a boy, strikes the most mainstream chord either.

Not that I base my love for a show on ratings or anything.

That's sad, Wandering Son is easily the best anime of the Winter 2011 anime season. My only complaint with it is that it's way to short. I wish they could've given 38 episodes like they did with Honey & Clover (Wandering Son has 11 volumes out to date so they would have been able to turn that into a 38 episode series... as Honey & Clover had 10 volumes and they were able to make a series of that length). I am well aware this will never happen but I'm allowed to fantasize right?

I guess if it's not a show about under age (or initially under age) moe girls with common anime personalities, it won't really garner exceptionally high ratings.

Sad, but in some cases, quite true. And no, this isn't a shot at moe, but when you compare a moe show to a regular show (such as a Noitamina show) the ratings are rather staggering.

But I don't know, this anime season hasn't been that bad, seeing as Beelzebub is now a anime. There is also Bakuman and The World Only Kami Sama knows as well. So I can only speak for myself but, I think it's been a good season so far.

It will be even greater once Toriko premiers as well.

Teriyaki Terrier wrote:

I guess if it's not a show about under age (or initially under age) moe girls with common anime personalities, it won't really garner exceptionally high ratings.

Kinda like the same with American TV and its tropes! Laughing

(So, next time ya guys complain about American TV....)

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