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Hey, Answerman! [2005-10-14]


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Chrno2



Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 6171
Location: USA
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:55 pm Reply with quote
Mohawk52 wrote:
I've read this thread from front to here and not once did anyone ask the glaring obvious question.

Why was an anime made in the first place?

Answer: It's someones bread and butter. It's what they are hoping to pay the mortgage with. It's meat on table for those who have created it, written it, and legally distributed it in the hope of making the dosh to pay for all those things everyone needs to pay for to live a decent life. The people who make available fansubs to anyone that can download it are, like bootleggers, taking away these craftsmen's living. Literally taking food out of their mouths. It's no different than someone breaking and entering into your home and then leaving the doors open for anyone to loot whats left. If you don't understand this then you need to grow up a bit more and quit being so self centered and self justifying. You will if it happens to you when you're no longer a starving student who happens to like anime, but someone trying to make a living for yourself by your own wits and then find your brilliant idea has been "copied" by a group of geeks who thinks it's "kewl" to do so and give it free to anyone to prove it. Lets hear how self justified you are then. Zac hit the nail on the head. If that hurt your feelings, then guess who the nail was? Wink


So well spoken Mohawk52. ; - ;
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aden



Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:03 pm Reply with quote
You guys make me laugh.

First, I might as well state that my opinions are my opinions and I do not intend to speak for anyone else. Also, this is not justification for why what I do is right, it is just why I do it.

I download anime. I download _lots_ of anime. But wait! I buy anime too. You want to know what anime I own on DVD? Well, I have every episode of HunterxHunter, Getbackers, Prince of Tennis, Yu Gi Oh, .hack//DUSK... the list goes on.

Now you want to know how much money I've spent on anime?

About $40. Give or take.

Anime is expensive. If we're going at around $20 a pop for four episodes, it would take about $120 to collect a 24-episode anime. In the best case scenario, of course, there are plenty of anime that would cost more.

You want to know what someone who spends $120 (at least) on 24 episodes of anime is?

Stupid.

I can go to Suncoast and pay $20-30 for my luxury good, or I can get the anime by clicking a few buttons and waiting about forty minutes. Or, if I happen to be in China, I can get an entire season of anime for about $1.25 US.

Yes, it's illegal. Don't be ridiculous. Downloading music is illegal, look how many people do it. This kind of illegal can't be stopped. It's technology that allows this. Technology never moves backwards.

But wait! If everyone downloads anime and doesn't buy it, then the companies will have no incentive to make anime anymore! Then where will you be? Ha!

Well, of course they will. Merchandise can't be downloaded. I own about $500 in anime merchandise, and I'm a stingy one who only buys it in China.

And of course.

At the very worst, there are always stupid people.

There will always be people like you guys, who act righteous and feel that you are -true- anime fans and look down upon people like me and buy the DVDs for $20-30 each.

And of course, I must say thanks. Because without you morons, I definitely wouldn't be able to enjoy the variety of anime that I do.

So thanks to the ignorant masses! Let's hope you never wise up.

[As morally reprehensible as his opinion is, this person will not be banned for expressing an opinion. please stop reporting the post. -t]
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Toboe



Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 138
Location: Rakuen
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:20 pm Reply with quote
aden wrote:

So thanks to the ignorant masses! Let's hope you never wise up.


Did you register just to post this?

That's pathetic, and you're a douche.
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ladholyman



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 56
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:43 pm Reply with quote
That guy has a point. Merchandise makes a killing.
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lazuline



Joined: 06 Aug 2005
Posts: 66
Location: Park Slope
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:56 pm Reply with quote
aden wrote:
You guys make me laugh.

First, I might as well state that my opinions are my opinions and I do not intend to speak for anyone else. Also, this is not justification for why what I do is right, it is just why I do it.

I download anime. I download _lots_ of anime. But wait! I buy anime too. You want to know what anime I own on DVD? Well, I have every episode of HunterxHunter, Getbackers, Prince of Tennis, Yu Gi Oh, .hack//DUSK... the list goes on.

Now you want to know how much money I've spent on anime?

About $40. Give or take.

Anime is expensive. If we're going at around $20 a pop for four episodes, it would take about $120 to collect a 24-episode anime. In the best case scenario, of course, there are plenty of anime that would cost more.

You want to know what someone who spends $120 (at least) on 24 episodes of anime is?

Stupid.

I can go to Suncoast and pay $20-30 for my luxury good, or I can get the anime by clicking a few buttons and waiting about forty minutes. Or, if I happen to be in China, I can get an entire season of anime for about $1.25 US.

Yes, it's illegal. Don't be ridiculous. Downloading music is illegal, look how many people do it. This kind of illegal can't be stopped. It's technology that allows this. Technology never moves backwards.

But wait! If everyone downloads anime and doesn't buy it, then the companies will have no incentive to make anime anymore! Then where will you be? Ha!

Well, of course they will. Merchandise can't be downloaded. I own about $500 in anime merchandise, and I'm a stingy one who only buys it in China.

And of course.

At the very worst, there are always stupid people.

There will always be people like you guys, who act righteous and feel that you are -true- anime fans and look down upon people like me and buy the DVDs for $20-30 each.

And of course, I must say thanks. Because without you morons, I definitely wouldn't be able to enjoy the variety of anime that I do.

So thanks to the ignorant masses! Let's hope you never wise up.


this guy is flaming... ignore him
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Maceart



Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Posts: 76
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:04 pm Reply with quote
First, seeing as how the "flamer" is from China, I guess he's already brainwashed by his CCP and the fact that pirates are everywhere. He probably typed up his response on a PC with a hacked WindowsXP with hacked Microsoft Word with a stolen ADSL connection along with his pirated DVD's.

But someone mentioned before:

"Now I do watch fansubs, I do download them but I NEVER keep them."

Shameful hypocrisy right there. The use of an absolute statement basically means that he's lying. You don't waste 175 mb of bandwith, then click on delete, empty recycle bin after you're done. That's against human nature.

And as for the Answerman's column. He must have watched fansubs before, or else he can't make such a generalization about them, having "shoddy translations" or "gaudy fonts". Admit it. Everyone here has watched fansubs. And they're here to stay.
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Captain Crotchspike



Joined: 23 Mar 2005
Posts: 355
Location: Phoenix, AZ
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:38 pm Reply with quote
aden wrote:
And of course, I must say thanks. Because without you morons, I definitely wouldn't be able to enjoy the variety of anime that I do.

So thanks to the ignorant masses! Let's hope you never wise up.

Hey, don't insult your drug suppliers like that!

So some of us are willing to pay a decent amount of money for a product. That doesn't necessarily make us "truer anime fans" or whatever the hell, but it doesn't make us dumber than you. Yes, go ahead and gloat all you want about how stupid we are for buying our expensive official American DVDs, but some of us just like what we pay for and can even afford it. I promise not to spit in your pudding if you don't spit in mine.
Maceart wrote:
Shameful hypocrisy right there. The use of an absolute statement basically means that he's lying. You don't waste 175 mb of bandwith, then click on delete, empty recycle bin after you're done. That's against human nature.

Yes you can. Some people don't have much free hard disk space to keep multiple episodes around forever.
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Genjackel



Joined: 23 Aug 2003
Posts: 18
Location: In your closet!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:52 pm Reply with quote
aden wrote:
Now you want to know how much money I've spent on anime?

About $40. Give or take.

Anime is expensive. If we're going at around $20 a pop for four episodes, it would take about $120 to collect a 24-episode anime. In the best case scenario, of course, there are plenty of anime that would cost more.

You want to know what someone who spends $120 (at least) on 24 episodes of anime is?

Stupid.

I can go to Suncoast and pay $20-30 for my luxury good, or I can get the anime by clicking a few buttons and waiting about forty minutes. Or, if I happen to be in China, I can get an entire season of anime for about $1.25 US.



You realize, even though you are paying the $40 for it, none of that gets back to the company. It's not at all a smart decision, your actually just as bad as those who are fighting for the orignals... and by the original they mean fansubbed.
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SnowfairyX



Joined: 29 Mar 2005
Posts: 438
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:26 pm Reply with quote
aden wrote:
At the very worst, there are always stupid people.

There will always be people like you guys, who act righteous and feel that you are -true- anime fans and look down upon people like me and buy the DVDs for $20-30 each.

And of course, I must say thanks. Because without you morons, I definitely wouldn't be able to enjoy the variety of anime that I do.

So thanks to the ignorant masses! Let's hope you never wise up.

You seem to be the type of person who will end up leeching off his/her "stupid" parents rather than getting a job and supporting oneself. It's because of "morons" like you that makes me not want to support welfare.
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Keonyn
Subscriber



Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 5567
Location: Coon Rapids, MN
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:36 pm Reply with quote
Well, it's apparent some people fail to grasp the concept of international economics. Not surprising, and in reality very much part of what Zac was talking about, people convincing themselves of something to justify immoral behaviour.

Does any of that $40 make it back? You bet it does, and I think I have a pretty decent understanding of how these economics work since it is my career, thanks. It makes it back in the form of licensing, as in they charge what they charge to recoop the cost of the licensing bid. Then account for labor costs, packaging and production and distribution.

If the companies cannot make their sales they cannot afford the licenses, or as many licenses, and that's alot of money lost to the anime industry, obviously far more than you think. No surprises there of course, it's amazing how few people actually grasp the reality of the very economic system they live under. The losses are expansive as well, a small degree of lost income will result in likely raised prices and fewer licenses. Fewer licenses will likely raise prices requested from the licenses which may result in higher prices and again few licenses. End result is it's all a chain, cause and effect, and while effects aren't felt immediately they are felt in the end.

Feel free to go get educated and obtain a degree and bring it back for us before you start preaching about how money is earned and where it goes. The rundown here is as basic as it gets, but I assure you the reality is far more complex and there's about a hundred other factors at play besides those major players. The bottom line though is that people work to produce this material and you apparently believe their work is worthy of your attention but not your money, placing yourself above them as though it is their place to service you. Well, you may have greed in you, but so do they though probably not so much, they may enjoy what they do but simply they want to get paid for it too. Now step down from the pedestal, while I'm sure you'll continue to steal the anime as you have since nothing will ever change that mindset once the greed sets in, you can stop preaching and justifying it as though the reality you wished existed did. It's theft, it's wrong, and no amount of justification is going to change the fact that it has negative effects and you are essentially spitting on the people who's work you claim to love.
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Captain Crotchspike



Joined: 23 Mar 2005
Posts: 355
Location: Phoenix, AZ
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:59 pm Reply with quote
I think he already established that he doesn't care about justifying what he does or about morality, so it's a waste of time to try to call him on those things. He was just calling people who pay a decent amount of money for the official product a bunch of morons. All there is to say to that is there are reasons we're willing to pay that much, and yes, we're able to. If we can and feel it's worth it, that's just the way we want to spend our money, and there's nothing dumb about knowing your money is well spent.

Not that he's reading this anyway, but hey.
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Ralboon



Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 43
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 11:03 pm Reply with quote
Fansubing is a lot like the whole emulation and abandon ware scene: Both are illegal and the ones who support them sometimes have valid reasons for doing so. For fansubbing the usual argument is that the series being bootlegged has not yet been licensed in America, or was horribly edited in the North American release. For emulation it is usually the old testimony of how it can be hard to find a lot of classic games. Abondon ware's defense is obviously how the games being downloaded are now literally impossible to find.

All three have valid claims. All three have an estabilished fan base. But when you get right down to it, that doesn't stop any of them from being illegal. When you download a fansub, you're stealing money from not only the company that licensed the show, but also the people who created it. You're stealing money from the original author. Not only that, but a lot of Japanese otaku are pissed off at American Fansubs, seeing as how they actually pay more for DVDs.

Keep in mind the next time you either watch or create a fansub that not only are you spitting on the company that licensed it, but also the original authors and Japanese otaku in general. Still think you are a true fan?
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MissLeedz



Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 5
Location: AK
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 11:03 pm Reply with quote
I could be wrong, but doesn't a majority of this anime air on t.v. in Japan. Bleach, Naruto, etc. Are the citizens of Japan shelling out 450 yen everytime they watch an episode? I, personally, watch alot stuff on t.v. that I will never buy a dvd for, am I a thief? If I record this to video to watch later or so I can show my friend what a funny episode this 'one' was and they pass it on and so on and so on...am I evil incarnate? I think alot of the artists and creators are paid by the television stations before it's aired, so as for taking food out of the artists mouth..I think that is a bit of a dramatic stretch. These fan subbers aren't making any money off of this so I guess we can knock their evilness factor down a few notches.
I watch a lot fan-subbed anime to check out the shows..some of them are shelf worthy and I will want to buy the dvd for better quality. Some of these are 'rentals' yeah I seen it, nothing to write home about. And some of them are crap and I am so glad I didn't need to waste my money on. And..some of what I watch might never be licensed.
You can't always go by reviews...Alot of people say Tenjo Tenge is CRAP. I liked it, in all its Fan-subbed and -service glory, and I am going to the buy the Licensed dvd. Reviewers say 'if you liked Tenjo Tenge you'll like Ikki Tousen' Wrong! I could barely stomach those few episodes I watched and I actually paid money to rent that one.
As for sub verses dub..I usually watch the sub just because I like the way Japanese sounds. I listen to alot of japanese music too. Rolling Eyes
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Genjackel



Joined: 23 Aug 2003
Posts: 18
Location: In your closet!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 11:34 pm Reply with quote
MissLeedz wrote:
I could be wrong, but doesn't a majority of this anime air on t.v. in Japan. Bleach, Naruto, etc. Are the citizens of Japan shelling out 450 yen everytime they watch an episode? I, personally, watch alot stuff on t.v. that I will never buy a dvd for, am I a thief?


Um.. actually, this is posted in the other thread:

Bob Loblaw wrote:
Space Goats wrote:
It's not free in Japan either.


I'm glad you brought this up, Space Goats, off-topic or not (and I don't think it is).

The Japanese, for the most part, don’t get to watch their anime for free. Aside from the obvious pay-per-view/premium channels, like WOWOW and SkyPerfect, there’s a little something called “viewer fees” that the Japanese are obligated to pay, if they own a television set. Yes. You own a TV, in Japan, one that's bought and paid for, you pay a monthly fee. No joke.

The viewer fees are collected to support NHK and fund their public television broadcasts, under the “Broadcast Act”. However, AFAIK, there’s no penalty or fine to any Japanese who refuse to pay. But you can bet your ass that most Japanese do pay.

Of course, there isn’t anything like this, in the US, because of the success of commercial advertising. Hooray for that. And, yeah, that's all I wanted to contribute to the, uh, "discussion".
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konosuke15



Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 67
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 12:39 am Reply with quote
I used to be a narutard.....i still get tendencies. Now, i could care less. It aint gonna change, and uncut DVD's will be released. So, im happy....as long as newbs dont act like they know everything and they only read what Viz released.
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