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NEWS: Trigger Adds Stretch Goals For Little Witch Academia 2


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Stepppingoui



Joined: 17 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:29 pm Reply with quote
bhl88 wrote:
They didn't want to overdo it like one of the other Kick-Heart projects:
"In our euphoria, we extended the show by 1 hour and it wasn't enough..."

Sorry this may seem like a stupid question but I am curious what did Kickheart overdo it on? On the other hand, did you mean to type "Kickstarter"? And could you please tell me where your quote is from. Thanks
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Blood-
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:06 pm Reply with quote
enurtsol wrote:
Maybe they should use those extra stretch goals to separate the project into separate episodes. That way, they could keep adding minutes to the project without the supporters having to be kept waiting too long to see it. Then at the end, aggregate all the eps into a film or OAV bundle.


That would have been my preference. Although, I hasten to add that I am not a contributor, nor do I intend to be. I will however buy any release that comes out this the way I plan to buy acctil's release of the first LWA ova.
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publicenemy333



Joined: 21 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:40 pm Reply with quote
The KS is still around the $300K. While I dont doubt the stretch goal will be reached within the Kickstarter time, doesnt seem like its gonna rocket as fast to its goal as when the kickstarter started lol.

Blood- wrote:
enurtsol wrote:
Maybe they should use those extra stretch goals to separate the project into separate episodes. That way, they could keep adding minutes to the project without the supporters having to be kept waiting too long to see it. Then at the end, aggregate all the eps into a film or OAV bundle.


That would have been my preference. Although, I hasten to add that I am not a contributor, nor do I intend to be. I will however buy any release that comes out this the way I plan to buy acctil's release of the first LWA ova.


They did mention how backers have been suggesting extra episodes. If you look at their updates, they basically say that they dont have the production time to work on two episodes, considering they have Kill La Kill to work on still. Otherwise, we'd have to wait even long (and we already have to wait over a year for this episode). Like I said, the updates describe it more clear than I can lol
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Blood-
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:02 pm Reply with quote
If they don't have the production capacity to do more than one 40-minute ova - well, that can't be helped. Considering they've already raised the $150,000 to do that 40-minute ova, I don't think they are offering that much for the $350,000 extra they are trying to raise.
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walw6pK4Alo



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:42 pm Reply with quote
I agree, the rewards with the extra $350k are kind of paltry. They'll probably reach more like $750k, so where will that extra money actually go, if not in to more animation? Figuring out possible worthwhile stretch goals ahead of time is as important as figuring out your initial goal.
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lem



Joined: 29 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:38 pm Reply with quote
^I was under the impression that just because one launches a Kickstarter that that doesn't necessarily mean that said Kickstarter is guaranteed to be successfully funded.

It's a risk from jump right? Albeit a calculated one, but still, it is what it is. On all fronts.

If you're primary interest wasn't with the project proper to begin with then perhaps you've missed the point?

They launched what they did. Nothing mandatory, everything voluntary. Pony up for as little as $1 or simply move along. They met their initial goal. There is still time remaining to make adjustments to the overwhelming, unanticipated response, and yet it's still going to be characterized as paltry? and or inadequate somehow?

Can't say that I agree with that sentiment and any unrealistic expectation(s). This stuff is fairly new after all, mistakes and stumbles are inevitable.

The funding extra is mentioned here. And if I read that correctly I'm completely okay with them rewarding the actual animators. I pledged as much as I could afford at the time. Now if they need extra to make a certain goal I'm going to see if I can increase that amount.
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:16 pm Reply with quote
walw6pK4Alo wrote:
I agree, the rewards with the extra $350k are kind of paltry. They'll probably reach more like $750k, so where will that extra money actually go, if not in to more animation? Figuring out possible worthwhile stretch goals ahead of time is as important as figuring out your initial goal.


Except that you run the risk of going over budget by setting way too many stretch goals. Just look at Double Fine and the problems they have been having trying to please the fans by making a game much larger than the budget.

I just want the 40 minute OVA that they promised us in the kickstarter video. I know we cant budget a tv series off the kickstarter and I hope the video shows a group of businesses that Little Witch Academia is a worthy project for a tv series. I dont need a bunch of OVAs that would delay that eventual tv series since Trigger is a small studio that just got started.

I really like Studio Trigger handled this because it shows they understand how to budget something unlike Tim Schaefer.
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configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:21 pm Reply with quote
Charred Knight wrote:
Except that you run the risk of going over budget by setting way too many stretch goals. Just look at Double Fine and the problems they have been having trying to please the fans by making a game much larger than the budget.


yeah I agree it's always better to be more conservative and overestimate your budget. Some people have compared it to Time of Eve but that is entirely different due to being finished and the funding being used purely for BD production, dub and the rewards, instead of content production.

A more apt comparison would be KickHeart: it was $201,164 for 12 mins of.. shall we say, less demanding animation Razz but with a dub, and less rewards

LWA includes over KH: printed artbook + film reel cut + T-shirt + deskmat + metal bookmark + poster
LWA higher tiers includes Giclee prints like KH, but also throws in: copy of the script + original signed shikishi (signboard)..
(KH did throw in a wrestling mask at $1000 though)

Personally I would have preferred them to scrapped all those rewards and put everything into even just a couple minutes of content, but that's not practical as it leaves no incentives for pledges

Quote:
I just want the 40 minute OVA that they promised us in the kickstarter video.

Actually the original was 20 + 15 = 35 mins
Quote:

The episode is currently planned to be about 20 minutes long, but we've come to Kickstarter in the hopes that we can make it even longer and better with your help! With your support, we want to increase the length of the episode by 15 minutes ...


So it seems if it reaches $500k, we would be getting an extra 5 mins of content to make 40 mins (This would be LWA3 if we're counting 20 min episodes), and possibly--likely IMO--a Good Smile figure.
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Blood-
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:26 am Reply with quote
lem wrote:
There is still time remaining to make adjustments to the overwhelming, unanticipated response, and yet it's still going to be characterized as paltry? and or inadequate somehow?


Yeah, exactly. I mean bully for you if you're super-duper happy with a Kickstarter wildly exceeding its original goal and then not offering that much in the way of extras, but having an opinion different from that isn't exactly way out there.
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lem



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:56 am Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
...then not offering that much in the way of extras, but having an opinion different from that isn't exactly way out there.


perhaps not. I'm just a little miffed at what I see in that position of "well I don't think there's enough to consider, or gee they really aren't offering much for my money even though we're only into this by a few days and whatnot, etc.," huh?

I just don't think that that's what this Kickstarter or the other ones I've supported are or ever were about. Sure it's fun to get all the little catch me eff me's and whatnot, but the creative content proper and the chance everyone takes is what it's about. That and seeing it succeed. Where it wouldn't have otherwise. That's all.
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Blood-
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:17 am Reply with quote
I have zero problem with anyone feeling satisfied with what is being offered. What I do have a problem with is someone like you taking a condescending attitude towards anyone who differs from your "it's all good" stance. Like I say, noting that this Kickstarter may very well collect $350,000 more than its original target yet really won't offer all that much beyond what was originally on the table is not a "zomg, that's so off the charts unreasonable!" position. If, in the coming days, the peeps behind this offer more than is currently the case, then great. But I - and others - can only react to what is being offered now, not what may be offered.

From my perspective, I'm very happy the original $150,000 will get us 15 minutes more of content than otherwise would be the case. However, it shouldn't be a huge surprise that some of us are a little bummed that an extra $350,000 on top of that isn't going to result in a single second of extra onscreen content. I understand the reason behind it (apparently Trigger doesn't currently have the production capacity to deal with it) but I for one can't help but be disappointed that there's a pot of money there yet we won't be getting any extra onscreen minutes.
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lem



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:19 am Reply with quote
You're mistaken if you think my attitude is condescending, it's more of a "what the hell? you can't just snap your fingers and expect them to give them everything."

When has anything ever worked like that? Your expectations are or were unreasonable from a production standpoint.

You also seem to be under this false impression that they were somehow magically ensured beyond a shadow of a doubt that they would garner that much funding in that short of a time frame.

They were not. As always, hindsight is 20/20 and we see now that they aimed low. So what of it?

All I'm saying is bully for them that received the funding. If they want to pay their animators with it. Then let them. It's also been stated that that $$ can be used towards the future. What's wrong about that? At any rate, the pledge I made is more than a fair deal.
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Blood-
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:16 am Reply with quote
lem wrote:
You're mistaken if you think my attitude is condescending...


Oh really?

Quote:
If you're primary interest wasn't with the project proper to begin with then perhaps you've missed the point?


Rolling Eyes

Quote:
When has anything ever worked like that? Your expectations are or were unreasonable from a production standpoint.


I have already acknowledged that Trigger's lack of production capability is an unfortunate reality. But if they knew that 15 extra minutes was all they were able to handle, then why bother stretching the goal? Again, if you are happy with what I consider fairly lame "rewards" for stretching that's fine, but don't adopt a snotty attitude towards those of us who are less than impressed.

Quote:
You also seem to be under this false impression that they were somehow magically ensured beyond a shadow of a doubt that they would garner that much funding in that short of a time frame.


This point has zero relevance to any comment I've ever made with respect to this subject. Of course I'm not "blaming" them for the fact that people responded fantastically to the original goal. I'm merely pointing out that - right now - their response to that overabundance seems underwhelming.

Quote:
It's also been stated that that $$ can be used towards the future.


I hope that proves true. If it does, that would go a long way to assuaging my original complaint. Look, I'm a fan of Trigger, I'm a fan of LWA. But I guess being disappointed that an extra $350,000 won't necessarily result in extra minutes of a show I like makes me super unreasonable, right?

Rolling Eyes
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InBatistutem



Joined: 10 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:58 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
Like I say, noting that this Kickstarter may very well collect $350,000 more than its original target yet really won't offer all that much beyond what was originally on the table is not a "zomg, that's so off the charts unreasonable!" position. If, in the coming days, the peeps behind this offer more than is currently the case, then great. But I - and others - can only react to what is being offered now, not what may be offered.


As a backer, I am a lot more puzzled by your reaction than you are puzzled by our reaction to TRIGGER's... "underwhelming" response to the project's success.

Okay, you don't want to participate in this one, but did you ever use kickstarter before? Because you seem to have no idea what you're talking about. You deserve to be looked down upon for it, if you ask me. You could have at least bothered to skim through the site for a couple of minutes and see how it works...

Here's what seems to be escaping your understanding: making a pledge is not the equivalent of making a donation. You get things in return, in accordance with the amount pledged (or the "tier" you are in). The $50 and $100 tier pledges are in fact pretty much identical to a pre-order of the SE and LE of the BD release, respectively. This is why the majority of the backers are content with things as they are. Because we are going to be compensated for participating in the project, no matter when we joined in. What, you want me to get mad even though I'm going to receive my BD of LWA just because the project got more money?... Really?

Furthermore, every backer brings not only money to the table, but also costs. And for this reason, the extra $350,000 are not "free" money. It's not like all they will have ever needed was $150,000 and any cent over that goes straight into their pockets unless they create a "stretch goal".

You might also want to look up what a "stretch goal" actually is.

Blood- wrote:
But I guess being disappointed that an extra $350,000 won't necessarily result in extra minutes of a show I like makes me super unreasonable, right?


Yes. it does. It makes you come across as unreasonable and self-entitled. All the more for being just a sideliner. I mean, if you had actually put some money into it I might understand your disappointment but as a non-customer it is very weird of you to complain about the service. It's the same as complaining that a restaurant didn't offer everyone a free dessert just because it got a good evening in revenues, when in fact you didn't even enter to eat anything there.
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lem



Joined: 29 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:15 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
...Rolling Eyes
yes really. I stand by this. If the source of dissatisfaction here boils down to the "well, what's in it for me?, that sure seems lacking" take on all of this, then something is a tad off.

As I've already said, that they are even offering the extras is secondary. It's about the work itself, all the other stuff? not so much. I mean I honestly couldn't give a frog's fatass if they come up with a gold plated GSC figure, a freakin' trip to Disney Land Tokyo, and or whatever else it is they can think up between now and the end of the funding. That wasn't ever the point of my agreeing to offer my money and wait.

Blood- wrote:
...if you are happy with what I consider fairly lame "rewards" for stretching that's fine, but don't adopt a snotty attitude towards those of us who are less than impressed.

Thinking that you are mistaken/misguided in regards to that and saying so is not how I would characterize that. See above. I've already stated the reasons I'm on board for this. But go ahead and can consider them to be fairly "lame" rewards all you want.

Quote:
they were...ensured beyond a shadow of a doubt that they would garner that much funding in that short of a time frame.
Blood- wrote:
This point has zero relevance to any comment I've ever made with respect to this subject.


It has everything to do with this when we're barely a week into the fundraising. I don't expect them to just shift right into "let's overwhelm our backers with these additional cool offerings to sweeten the pot". That's not only unrealistic, but unreasonable as well.

If by the end of the funding they haven't even made one additional effort towards that end, then that will be something else to discuss. Until then...

Quote:
It's also been stated that that $$ can be used towards the future.

Blood- wrote:
I hope that proves true. If it does, that would go a long way to assuaging my original complaint. Look, I'm a fan of Trigger, I'm a fan of LWA. But I guess being disappointed that an extra $350,000 won't necessarily result in extra minutes of a show I like makes me super unreasonable, right? Rolling Eyes


I'm glad you're a fan and I also hope that proves true. But it just seems that you expect that any additional pledge $$ is something they should automatically give right back in the form of rewards/extra minutes?

Maybe they will? Maybe they won't? Who knows?

But they're not automatically obligated to do this. The funding is voluntary. And that funding can be managed by the backers until closing time..

Of course I can't predict their future action(s) or any lack of it, but they do have a considerable amount of time remaining to do what they will with all this $$ don't they? So for now I will trust they will do the best they can with the time, budget and staff that they have to work with.
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