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NEWS: Trigger Adds Stretch Goals For Little Witch Academia 2


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Blood-
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:37 pm Reply with quote
@ Inwhatever - despite you coming off like a giant a-hole, I know exactly what Kickstarter is and how it works.

Here's what seems to be escaping your ability to understand: when a Kickstarter project sets a goal, of course they are no obligation to offer anything beyond they originally offered. If Trigger set an original goal of $150,000 and a million dollars rolled in, they'd be perfectly within their rights simply to pocket all the extra and do with it what they like.

However, they weren't content to simply overshoot the goal. They decided, "hmmm, things are going well. Let's stretch the goal." Whenever you stretch a goal you are obligated to offer something beyond the original deal. They've decided to ask for an extra $150,000 and for that they are offering a making of doc, a commentary track and an artbook - all of which can be produced far below that $150,000 figure.

As I've said before, if people like you and lem think that's just peachy, then fine. But to suggest that anyone who feels different is somehow an entitled whiner simply reveals you to be a moronic dick.
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InBatistutem



Joined: 10 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:56 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
They've decided to ask for an extra $150,000 and for that they are offering a making of doc, a commentary track and an artbook - all of which can be produced far below that $150,000 figure.


Now you're just contradicting yourself. First you acknowledge that this isn't a non-profit project for trigger, and now you're complaining that they didn't diminish their margins enough. And again you show that you don't quite get what "stretch goals" are

Yes, they're saying that if the project reaches half a million $$, as a celebration they are going to offer extra stuff to everyone eligible for no additional cost on the backer's part. As long as you pay for the $50+ course, you would be receiving something extra on the house simply because they had a good night that day. So what is the problem exactly? Again, should I complain that they didn't give me enough free extra stuff just because they had more people join in?

"Oh but why didn't they give us 2 free donuts if they had so many customers tonight?" <- this is what you are saying, without even buying a course.
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Blood-
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:15 pm Reply with quote
InBatistutem wrote:
Yes, they're saying that if the project reaches half a million $$, as a celebration they are going to offer extra stuff to everyone eligible for no additional cost on the backer's part. As long as you pay for the $50+ course, you would be receiving something extra on the house simply because they had a good night that day. So what is the problem exactly?


The problem is that to me it looks like a bit of an obnoxious cash grab. To me it looks like they are saying, "shee-it, we're getting way more than we expected. But we want even more so let's dangle some inexpensive trinkets and see if we can induce even more people to throw some cash at us - cash that will not be used to make any extra minutes of onscreen time."

lem's point is that we don't know yet that the extra cash won't be used for extra screentime. Fair enough. I'm a bit cynical myself. Awesome that Trigger will be getting enough money to pay themselves more than expected but I'm not sure why you have such a hard time imagining why I wouldn't be disappointed that the fact they are doing so well may very well not mean more than a 40 minute ova. Which they would have been able to make even without stretching their goal.
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Draneor



Joined: 19 May 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:45 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
The problem is that to me it looks like a bit of an obnoxious cash grab. To me it looks like they are saying, "shee-it, we're getting way more than we expected. But we want even more so let's dangle some inexpensive trinkets and see if we can induce even more people to throw some cash at us - cash that will not be used to make any extra minutes of onscreen time."

Then don't donate? You don't get a say in how other people spend their money (or in how no-longer-your money is spent if you did donate).
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Past



Joined: 14 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:04 pm Reply with quote
One question I have about this Kickstarter thing is if they sell physical media of their productions, even with extras, doesn't that mean they should retail at significantly less than traditional releases that make all their revenue post-production?

The reason it should be less is because in the traditional model, the production company and advertisers contribute to the project before its completed. They get a return on their investment if the show is successful from DVD sales.

If viewers (ie the consumer normally buying physical copies) provide these funds instead, why should they have to pay equivalent post-production physical media prices afterwards also? They've already satisfied the burden of investing in a project that may not be successful otherwise, but is successful and thus any revenue made off of a physical release can just be chump change, and would in turn encourage this type of business model to continue.
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Chagen46



Joined: 27 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:23 pm Reply with quote
^ Kickstarters frequently give contributors above a certain amount free copies of the work being funded for that exact reason. Usually the amount required to get the free copy is a donation that exceeds the amount needed to buy the thing normally (so a game would require about 45-60 dollars to get a copy).
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BonnKansan



Joined: 17 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:08 pm Reply with quote
Maybe they're offering stretch goals because they're surprised by the support, and feel like they need to offer more than they originally planned, rather than it being a way to grab more money? Looking at other Kickstarter drives like Kick-Heart, can't really blame them for thinking it's the thing to do. I just hope they don't overwhelm themselves with stretch goals like too many other creators have done; judging by what they're offering, it seems like they're keeping what's possible & reasonable in mind.
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InBatistutem



Joined: 10 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:11 am Reply with quote
Blood-, for all your attempts at trying to be the victim, you've been a lot more keen on trying to bite other people by throwing around how stupid, retarded, moronic or asshole-ish they/we supposedly are. And as much as you're entitled to your opinion and expressing that opinion, that opinion is not automatically valid. Nor is it in any way free of scrutiny. If you're going to whine that you have the right to type out your thoughts on the matter, then don't be surprised when others will point out that your point of view is naive and misinformed at best, since we are just as free to post our thoughts on the matter.

Bottom line is, the "problem" here is with you in full, not the kickstarter project and its "stretch goals". Not once since your first post did you bother to try and have an informed opinion. You just went on with your senseless whining and you waited on every step/post for other people to inform and correct you. Starting from your first post in which you've shown to have only a vague and erroneous idea as to what this kickstarter project is about, you've kept your head up your ass and barked.

You deserve all the flack that's coming your way when you can't even bother to spend a couple of minutes to get a proper context on the matter. Your whole blabbering is odd, unreasonable and far-removed. That you are free to express it doesn't change anything.

For example, take this latest gem of yours:

Blood- wrote:
I can't help contrast the paltry additions that Trigger is offering if its stretch goal is met with how the Time of Eve folks handled things. They offered things like a dub and additional OVAs.


This is an ignorant, if not stupid comparison to make. Time of Eve was finished more than 3 YEARS ago. The extra OVAs included were finished 8 years to more than a DECADE earlier to that kickstarter, respectively. The only thing they will ahve to pay for now is printing and distribution costs (as well as work around a few minor licensing hiccups with Pale Cocoon and Mizu no Kotoba). The bulk of the cost for them *the production cost) was covered a long time ago.

LWA2 isn't even in production yet. They not only have to pay for printing and distribution, but also have to make the damn thing first. I'm dumbfounded how you'd even begin to make this comparison.
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Blood-
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:09 am Reply with quote
Victim? What a stupid comment to make. My entire original comment was to have the temerity to state that I found the stretch goals to be paltry considering how over-target Trigger is. Stretch goals aren't designed to reward people who have already donated - if they were, they wouldn't add new levels to the goal, they would simply add them without saying, "these will only be available if we hit $500,000." And a dub is a meaningful and relatively expensive addition to a production so yes it makes the ToE Kickstarter comparable.

Face it, you're just one of those people who can't stand if someone says anything even remotely negative about a project that puts a little tingle in your schwingle. There is absolutely nothing wrong with pointing out that a making of doc, a commentary track (both of which can be produced for peanuts) and an artbook aren't exactly overwhelming add-ons for a project that (may and probably will be) $350,000 over it's initial $150,000 goal.
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Magnab



Joined: 19 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:22 am Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
Snip...

I understand what you are saying I am one those who voiced concern on Kickstarter over how expensive the stretch goal is in comparison to what’s being offered as rewards. Those of us who express concerned were called selfish and told we should be grateful they are even producing the show. There have been others who have express concern over other things and got bash for it in the process it is as if no one should express an opinion that does not place Trigger in a favorable light. Now this twitter post as me concern
“We will try to cover if the printed content for LWA2 such as the artbook will be available in english Text as well on our next meeting.” https://twitter.com/Trigger_Tattun/status/356126654684340225
should I take this to mean there is a possibility I will not be able to read the printed materials. I am giving a lot of money to this show and I would like to be able to read all the printed materials. Communication with the team has been nonexistent I have sent messages but have not gotten back any response. I am frustrated and depending on how things progress over the next few weeks I might just cancel.


Last edited by Magnab on Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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SwerveCity



Joined: 19 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:45 am Reply with quote
InBatistutem wrote:

This is an ignorant, if not stupid comparison to make. Time of Eve was finished more than 3 YEARS ago. The extra OVAs included were finished 8 years to more than a DECADE earlier to that kickstarter, respectively. The only thing they will have to pay for now is printing and distribution costs (as well as work around a few minor licensing hiccups with Pale Cocoon and Mizu no Kotoba). The bulk of the cost for them *the production cost) was covered a long time ago.

LWA2 isn't even in production yet. They not only have to pay for printing and distribution, but also have to make the damn thing first. I'm dumbfounded how you'd even begin to make this comparison.

Well this is fairly wrong. The first 150k paid for the production cost, judging by Trigger's comments anything over than that isn't really increasing the length or quality of the anime. So after the first 150k its directly comparable to Time of Eve and the rewards aren't even in the same league(still I'm more than happy to continue putting money towards this project). So there was nothing wrong with that particular comment from blood-.
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configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:36 am Reply with quote
SwerveCity wrote:
Well this is fairly wrong. The first 150k paid for the production cost, judging by Trigger's comments anything over than that isn't really increasing the length or quality of the anime. So after the first 150k its directly comparable to Time of Eve and the rewards aren't even in the same league(still I'm more than happy to continue putting money towards this project). So there was nothing wrong with that particular comment from blood-.

No, the original was 15 mins extra for a total of 35 mins. This extends that by 5 mins to 40 mins.

Plus extra rewards:
- audio commentary
- making of documentary
- sound track
- gengasyu (line art collection book)
- possible Good Smile figure

these rewards along with existing ones as I mentioned above, especially for the the higher end tiers (Giclee prints, signed copy of script, original shikishi signed by the illustrator), ARE in the same league as Time of Eve rewards.

I admit it may not sound like much for the money, but it is something... However like I mentioned, it is more apt to compare with Kick Heart which provides a different perspective than ToE.

Blood- wrote:
Stretch goals aren't designed to reward people who have already donated - if they were, they wouldn't add new levels to the goal, they would simply add them without saying, "these will only be available if we hit $500,000."

While stretch goals are designed to increase pledges, they still reward existing patrons. In a way, it is designed to reward existing patrons by encouraging them to increase their pledge up to a higher reward level and/or cause them to encourage others to pledge.
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Blood-
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:03 am Reply with quote
configspace wrote:
Blood- wrote:
Stretch goals aren't designed to reward people who have already donated - if they were, they wouldn't add new levels to the goal, they would simply add them without saying, "these will only be available if we hit $500,000."

While stretch goals are designed to increase pledges, they still reward existing patrons. In a way, it is designed to reward existing patrons by encouraging them to increase their pledge up to a higher reward level and/or cause them to encourage others to pledge.


Completely agree, configspace. That's exactly why I feel it is fair to judge the value of add-ons when a stretch goal is announced. In any case, it's nice to see some reasonable people show up and weigh in on the subject. A refreshing change.

@Magnab - sorry to hear you aren't getting much joy with respect to replies from Trigger. That's another big difference from the ToE folk who seemed to be very responsive, indeed.
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nargun



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:56 am Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
The problem is that to me it looks like a bit of an obnoxious cash grab.


How dare those professionals structure their affairs in a way that increases their income.
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Blood-
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:04 am Reply with quote
nargun wrote:
Blood- wrote:
The problem is that to me it looks like a bit of an obnoxious cash grab.


How dare those professionals structure their affairs in a way that increases their income.


Rolling Eyes Way to miss my point. If you are thrilled that Trigger gets to line its pockets more than it expected to, fine. That doesn't mean it's invalid for other people to look at what's being offered as a stretch goal and not be impressed.
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