Forum - View topicGatchaman Crowds (TV) (both seasons).
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leatherhead333
 Posts: 1187 Location: Kansas |
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Damn 7 episodes have gone by and this show hasn't gotten more than 2 pages worth of discussion? Tis a shame indeed.
Collectively I can say that I'm actually enjoying this season even MORE than the first. While the production values are still..........less than stellar I find things to be much more consistent this time around. Katze may have been an entertaining villain but he felt like a character who was evil for the sake of being a bad guy. I do enjoy the banter he has with Hajime since he's been sealed though. He's just a ball of vulgar insults and subtle foreshadowing which seems at lot more appropriate in my opinion. Rizumu at first seemed like a really cheap replacement at but once they got around to explaining his motives you can actually see where he's coming from. He didn't tell his followers to kill anyone which makes his tactics much less hateable compared to Katze. Of course his attempted murder of Rui kind of goes against that. However, considering he could have just used Rui's note as a hostage to get out of the situation it's clear he didn't have an intention of using access violence to achieve his goal. The CROWDS indeed have the potential to be a major issue of conflict. Imagine organized crime lords getting a hold of them. Or hell petty thieves. Even if the Hajime and co are there to help when there is a big uprising of them they can't possibly stop all the incidents. I think the issue here is that the CROWDS possess more power than what humans are capable of using wisely on a regular basis. I think I remember someone in the show comparing it to how dangerous a car is but that's just a starwman in my opinion. The anime hasn't really shown the casualties that have resulted due to misuse of the blue CROWDS. Sure they have LIGHTLY mentioned it but I'd think the problem would be a bigger issue than they are making it out to be. Seems like a bit of a cheat in the narrative. One thing I never understood is how come X can't just ban the people who use the red CROWDS from the system? Does she have no control over them? Was that due to Katze or something? Perhaps the anime explained this at some point but I don't remember. Election arc: Ok as much as I hate to admit it the whole "Make the best candidate do something to make himself look stupid" scenario really ruined this plot point. No self respecting news station would let something like that happen. Especially considering he's likely been interviewed a number of times. You don't look away from the camera or say anything (after you've said your final piece that is) until you are cleared and CERTAIN the camera is off. It would have been more believable if the camera guy was a anti-crowd supporter so at least THEN it would have made more sense. But since that's not the case it honestly feels like a cheap way to move the plot to a desired point. Plus the idea of elections becoming purely digital and allowing ANYONE to enter/vote is just.........yeah suspension of disbelief is pretty high here. With hackers being on the rise even being able to break into Americans most secret databases such a thing would never work. Even if you have X moderate the votes she can't do anything about the red CROWDs users right? What's stopping someone from exploiting/hacking into her system? I mean I get that this is technically a fantasy world but the anime DOES try to portray some things in a realistic light so the logic leaps do feel a tad extreme. Even Gel getting elected kind made me cringe. I mean he's basically pulling out money from no where. Greatly reducing tax, increasing government assisted services and completely stopping Japan's military efforts? Yeeeeeeeeah that doesn't seem like something that would work out properly in real life. They didn't really address it very well either. However, regardless of all that I still kind of like what they've done with the story. Ultimately they've turned the two new main characters who we thought were just going to be become part of the good guys into unintentional villains. The exploration of individualism isn't exactly a new venture but the way the show goes about displaying it in a unique way is what I love. I know for a fact I'd be one of those people creeped out by Gel's followers. The battle between the idealism of Gel and Rui is a genuinely perplexing one since in a sense they are both wrong while being right in aspects of their argument. They've made sure to show how Rui's ideas could easily backfire while doing the same for Gel. They aren't playing favorites and telling the audience how to think. Of course I suppose we still have to consider Hajime's viewpoint being brought up but she doesn't seem to feel strongly about it either side. She obviously doesn't like Gel's methods but she was never really concerned about the CROWDS getting banned either. As she's stated before there is nothing wrong with conflict and opposition in ideas. It's how we can better understand each other as humans beings. But forcing those ideas on people without their consent is what bothers her. Overall really liking the show and hoping it provides more satisfying commentary. Oh and uh................................spoiler[am I the only one who thinks Hajime is hot?] Weird considering how I didn't feel this way before 
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
 Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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Hajime *is* hot, so no, I don't think you're weird for thinking that way.
As for Gel's budget... I don't think it will last. Gel doesn't really understand what he's doing. He's read the minds of lots of people (nearly all of whom have no idea how to run a country) and produced a gestalt of what they apparently want. But I don't think that a society that is actually run that way would work over the long haul, so I think that there will be Problems that will begin to crop up very soon. When they do, Gel is gonna have to get increasingly hardcore to keep his mantra (everyone's heart is one) in place. Tsubasa is basically a retard. She is probably supposed to represent the "4" of the 2-4-2, but to me she represents the Politically Correct crowd. But of all the annoying things she does (and there are a great many of them), the most annoying to me is when she claims to know the world better than Rui, while at the *same time* says how she "doesn't understand" things. The only reason I don't think she's utterly worthless and contemptible is because J.J. *did* draw out her NOTE, so he obviously believes she will be pivotal in the future -- hopefully the scales will fall from her eyes at some point. |
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12skippy21
 Posts: 785 Location: York, England |
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Mostly agree with your post except the above snippet, never underestimate the power of human stupidity. One of the main condensending articles concerning our outgoing labour leader, Ed Milliband, was that he could not eat a bacon sandwich correctly. 
Recently, a House of Lords member quit after undercover video footage showed him snorting cocaine of a prostitute. I mean, how cliche can you get. I also remember old Gordon Brown saying something offensive to a challenging woman under his breath which the microphone picked up on. British politics is full of morons, hence why our country is going down the shitter. Though on the other hand, yes, Hajime is hot.
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鏡
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I think Katze was a much more complicated character than this, and still is (since he hasn't really changed much despite his new home). The way he was described as a "broken child" and his malicious revelry in the artifice of being a Gatchaman through the use of his Gatchaman powers implied that he's someone who isn't so much evil as he is intensely disillusioned or bitter. The idea is that Katze became frustrated with JJ's opaque, godlike status, so frustrated that he concluded the entire idea of being a "gatchaman" was just an empty farce used to delude the Gatchaman into being willing tools of JJ, and that an actual recognition of the reality of human/alien nature would be a recognition of individuality and the selfishness it necessarily produces, as the polar opposite of JJ's selfless morality. Basically you can do a really simple Nietzschean analysis of Katze's character where he revolted against JJ's arbitrary master-laws by valorizing their opposites, and thereby made himself master of himself once more and freed himself from JJ's moral obligations by declaring them poorly-founded and immoral. This is why he's always correlating these acts of destruction with fun, and mocking the Gatchaman's efforts as the blind gropings of infants: he sees Gatchaman as idiot slave-children brainwashed by JJ's actually empty, anti-life morality. His desire to kill JJ is pure ressentiment, and Hajime would try to convince him that it's unwarranted. His fight vs Joe in S1 really epitomizes this whole disposition, and made him one of my favourite characters in the show. His VA is incredible as well. This is all summarized in his riddle to Hajime in season 1, where he sees the actual true source of human value in their capacity for suffering and natural disposition to relish in it, which Hajime recognizes as true but not an exhaustive description of the sources of value available to humans; that humans can be self-interested and enjoy destruction and conquering on one hand but can be selfless and moral on the other. |
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leatherhead333
Posts: 1187 Location: Kansas |
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Very true. Still, I think they've built up her character properly for this outcome to sort of make sense. Since the very moment she became a Gatchaman she's had the world watching her and pressuring her to the point of wanting to help whoever she can. Now that many people around her want the same thing she has deluded herself to the point of ignoring the opinions of anyone else. She's always been self righteous to a point but it's definitely spiraled out of control and they've showed how she's gradually went down the rabbit hole. I think by the end of the day she'll be the one who will have to fix her own mistakes.
Oh I'm not denying that it happens still. There was a case a while ago where a guy on a T.V show went into a room and talked about the people he killed for some reason (he didn't know he was still be filmed). It's just that it rarely ever does happen anymore. I assume that most people wouldn't call their audience stupid unless they thought they weren't being watched or were at home. The Prime Minister has been interviewed many times considering this would be his second term if he won. I just don't see him doing that. Just a peeve for me I guess.
Fair enough. I admit I made a bit of a generalization that wasn't exactly fair to his character. I kinda forgot a bit about the first season since it's been so long. I just remembered Katze for his outlandish personality and not much else came up. I blame my brain for being anime overloaded 
*fist pumps* 
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鏡
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Insight 08 - Well that was a pretty terrible turn for Rui's character writing. All of his Gatchaman allies are ripe for agreeing with his former viewpoint now so it's really a shame they took him in that direction instead of having him watch over and help rally the Gatchaman, but maybe that will come later. I guess it's justifiable within the context of the show's events so far that it would come to this, it's just really unfortunate for someone who was probably my favourite character in the show up until this point. His agreeing with Rizumu also seemed like a pretty huge blow. I guess I just really dislike where the show has taken his character this season in general.
On the other hand Hajiime's conversations with Tsubasa and Katze continue to be very well-written and illuminating. It's interesting to watch Tsubasa radicalize in the simple face of Hajime's placidity, and Hajime's comment that Tsubasa was more of a Gatchaman than Hajime herself was pretty poignant. I wonder what the answer to Katze's riddle is~~~ I was thinking "belief" at first but that seems too on-the-nose. spoiler[The kuu-sama are basically failures of infinity from Evangelion 3.0~] |
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Stark700
 Posts: 11762 Location: Earth |
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I had a bad feeling about the kuu-sama from the beginning. They act all friendly and tries to blend in society but the ending shows otherwise. Kinda curious how society will be more aware of this....
Quite a twisted turn imo too. |
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12skippy21
Posts: 785 Location: York, England |
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Another great episode. I know I would be on Kuu-samas hit list but I give kudo's to Hajime's characterisation. They have written a great character here and I cannot think of any others like her, imagined or real.
I always like to compare themes from shows like this to present day events but I feel this was more like the world in the 90s with the hopeful optimism post Cold War. As reviewers have said though, everyone has a different variation of the greater good as we all know some are more equal than others. An interesting counterpoint, and one that as bearing from the show, uncontrolled migration and economic strife will likely slowly lead to the rise of the 'right wing' in Europe while the primarily 'left wing' governments in place currently will have to find a way to counteract this. Open discussion versus media manipulation, an interesting time to be a media analyst. Whatever happens it will not end well as apathy controls the hen house (in the UK at least). Would be interested how people from other countries interpret the messages. |
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Aylinn
 Posts: 1684 |
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I think, if anything, Gatchaman criticizes Japanese conformity and is about the problems of Japan rather than about the world’s problems. And more than anything it criticizes Tsubasa’s impulsive actions and her lack of attempt at trying to think deeper, which is getting her into troubles. She definitely displays no insight, unlike Hajime who clearly is thinking about the situation by asking questions and observing rather than acting hastily without need, under the influence of emotions.
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15457 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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Season 2, Episode 8
Something that goes down easy and is hard to come out. Would that be food? Are those things going to eat people that don't agree with them? They are awfully quick to think it they are like Gel, but he seems confused about them to. Actually I really don't think they are some creature that is simply like Gel, they are like Gel because so many other people are being like Gel. They is actually an amalgamation like them that despite saying it is inclusive, is brainwashing people to share their feelings onto others, and shunning those that don't. The threat is not even entirely the monsters themselves, but the people who have the pink/red bubbles. I continue to really like Hajime's character, and I thought that it was a particularly interesting moment with Tsubasa. She thinks that Hajime has to be a corrupted bad guy simply because she listens to Katze. It reminds me of times I got a little annoyed when people turn against someone's opinions if maybe they associate with something in some small way they see as evil. Especially in political talks where supporters of parties generalise the people of the other side, like say they supported this one idea that turned out really bad, that idea itself is bad, and they are too. |
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DuskyPredator
Posts: 15457 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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Season 2, Episode 10
A great episode. As a little aside I am not sure what I have heard of on the war with Japan that idea that it was the people just following the atmosphere that grew and it was such a bad thing. The breathing exercises were totally meant for one to clear their mind so they can then think clearly. Indeed some of the worst things in history can come from people just going along with what others are thinking, something that everyone is afraid of being alone or different. |
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Stark700
Posts: 11762 Location: Earth |
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My favorite part this week was the classic Gatchamannnnnnn
Seems like we are getting to the action elements again. Honestly, those Kuu-samas are starting to freak me out. |
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Stark700
Posts: 11762 Location: Earth |
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Gatchaman Crowds Insight episode 12
Mm, so the decision is to kill Gel-chan? Well now that's something... The action picked up once again this week and it was overall neat. About time the Kuu-samas are being repelled. I'm excited for the finale now especially after hearing what Hajime had to say. |
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Aylinn
Posts: 1684 |
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A fake showdown was an interesting solution to the problem. I wonder how Hajime did it and my theory is that she used Berg Katze's power. He could change his appearance in the first season in order to pretend to be someone else, so it is probable.
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killjoy_the
 Posts: 2459 |
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And now this begs the question: if Kuu-sama implode, the people they swallowed up come back. But if they explode, does the same happen? Did the Gatchaman just kill some people by accident? Were the Kuu-sama they fought with conveniently not the ones that swallowed people up?
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