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dragonrider_cody
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 2541
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 Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:50 pm
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| KSweeley wrote: |
| Charred Knight wrote: |
| dragonrider_cody wrote: | | Am I the only person that finds it a little depressing that R1's largest anime distributor was sold for only $24 million? Wow! I guess that shows how much the market has shrank, considering Navarre paid over a hundred million for them.
Hell, back in 2006 20% of ADV was sold for only a little less. But on the bright side, it means there will likely be few changes. But considering how tough the home entertainment market is getting, let's hope these investors are patient. |
The market collapsed in 2007, Geneon is gone, ADV (as section 23), and Bandai Ent, are barely hanging on, and we are never going to see the return of the major tv series again. |
Actually Geneon is not gone, they are alive and well in Japan, owned by Comcast since Comcast acquired NBCUniversal and Geneon is part of Universal Studios: http://www.nbcuni.com/management/executives-by-business/cunningham
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UPIE continues to pursue opportunities for international growth, including the acquisition of a majority stake in Geneon in 2009 to form Geneon Universal Entertainment, the leading Hollywood major in market share in Japan.
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And Geneon Universal had a panel at Anime Expo 2010: animenewsnetwork.com/convention/2010/geneon-universal-industry-panel
This Q & A Session with a Geneon Universal person confirmed that Geneon is "back" in the U.S.: http://www.mania.com/ax-2010-geneon-universal-entertainment-panel_article_123772.html
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Q: Geneon USA was formerly closed, does this mean you are back?
A: From now on Geneon itself, will be participating in distributing with like FUNimation and stuff, so they are back
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So it looks like Geneon is working with FUNimation here in the U.S. |
Wrong Geneon, or should I say different Geneon. The current Geneon Universal is different from the previous Geneon that had distributed DVDs here in the US. In fact, when Geneon was sold to NBC Universal, it was never determined whether it's former US subsidiary was included in the sale or not. Foreign subsidiaries are separate entities and it was never noted whether the former Geneon USA was part of the new NBC unit or whether Dentsu had held onto the unit while it wound down operations. Prior to that sale, only a few office personal were left at Geneon while it's TV deals and distribution deal with Funimation finished up. Considering the unit was basically shutting down, there is a good chance it was never transferred (as it basically had no value.)
The new Geneon is currently licensing titles out once again in North America (after having stopped when their North American unit began to wind down it's business.) Funimation picked up several titles, because it had put in the highest bids, but they are not their exclusive distributor. They even stated they would be working with other distributors. High School of the Dead is a Geneon title and that is being released by Sentai.
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dragonrider_cody
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 2541
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Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:59 pm
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| jsevakis wrote: |
| _V_ wrote: | | 3 - Most importantly, FUNimation no longer has the protective cushion of Navarre anymore; Navarre isn't going to be there to keep pumping money into them.
4 - will the new investors continue to pump money into FUNimation, or are they on their own now?
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Source please. There has never been anything in their quarterly reports to suggest this is the case; in fact, at times it might have been the opposite, with Funi cashflow keeping other parts of Navarre going. |
Well don't forget that Funi's cash flow has never been particularly high. People here often make the mistake of mixing up "cash-flow" and "profits". They are too entirely different things. Blockbuster was a huge source of cash flow for Viacom when they owned it, though it never attributed heavily to it's profits (and if fact caused the company to take a huge write off as it's value dropped). Funimation was one of Navarre's more profitable units, but it's cash flow was considerably lower than the majority of it's other units. That likely played into the decision to sell off the unit as well.
There haven't been any issues with this in recent years, but there had been years past where Funimation was blamed for the decreases in revenue in Navarre's publishing businesses. One has to wonder what shape Funimation would be in had it not had Navarre's deep pockets when the anime market had it's first considerable drop. Funimation has been profitable recently, but it hasn't always thrived while part of Navarre, especially during the early years of the acquisition.
Also, I'm curious why people are impressed they paid with cash. There are two ways these deals are done, cash or stock (ownership stakes.) How else did you expect them to pay? Credit cards? Food stamps? It's cash regardless of whether it's from investors or whether a loan was taken out.
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Charred Knight
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3085
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Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:00 pm
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| jsevakis wrote: |
| _V_ wrote: | | 3 - Most importantly, FUNimation no longer has the protective cushion of Navarre anymore; Navarre isn't going to be there to keep pumping money into them.
4 - will the new investors continue to pump money into FUNimation, or are they on their own now?
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Source please. There has never been anything in their quarterly reports to suggest this is the case; in fact, at times it might have been the opposite, with Funi cashflow keeping other parts of Navarre going. |
Are you honestly suggesting that the million dollar profits where in fact profits, and not candy drop mountains that exist in my dreams.
| KSweeley wrote: |
| Quote: | |
Q: Geneon USA was formerly closed, does this mean you are back?
A: From now on Geneon itself, will be participating in distributing with like FUNimation and stuff, so they are back
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So it looks like Geneon is working with FUNimation here in the U.S. |
I was talking about Geneon USA, which was an american distribution company that was closed in 2007. Geneon Universal used Funimation to distribute their remaining licenses, but they will not be licensing anymore anime for the United States.
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GrilledEelHamatsu
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 703
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Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:58 pm
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| Charred Knight wrote: |
| dragonrider_cody wrote: | | Am I the only person that finds it a little depressing that R1's largest anime distributor was sold for only $24 million? Wow! I guess that shows how much the market has shrank, considering Navarre paid over a hundred million for them.
Hell, back in 2006 20% of ADV was sold for only a little less. But on the bright side, it means there will likely be few changes. But considering how tough the home entertainment market is getting, let's hope these investors are patient. |
The market collapsed in 2007, Geneon is gone, ADV (as section 23), and Bandai Ent, are barely hanging on, and we are never going to see the return of the major tv series again. |
You sound very pesimistic. Cheer up!The economy is improving. Japan's economic recovery from the Tsunami will be a breeze, and R1 labels like Section23/ADV, TRSF,Funimation,Bandai, and MB are doing just fine. The R1 market is basically back into the 1999-2000 era. Also with the advent of digital streaming, in addition to that, Electronic giants in Japan are looking to do away with all DVD disc media. Companies like, Toshiba,Pioneer,SHARP and Hitachi are all hard at work on inventing a flash memory card video and media format designed to phase out BD and DVD and JVC is rumored to be working on a Disc media format smaller in size than BD, but will be the only one that uses a even higher HD res than 1080p around 1446p, the format is codenamed "Laser Red". All of these products will see light of day next year when I forsee another anime R1/R2 boom especially since I think Japan's economy is going to surpass China's in the next decade.
Also Nintendo and Mircosoft's next systems GALAXY and Xbox 3(both which will be publicly annouced at E3) along with SEGA's speculated "NEPTUNE"(SEGA will annouce next gen hardware in May, but won't reveal the project until September http://sammysatomi.webs.com) will all do away with disc media in favor of flash media. So you see, there's hope, flash media is cheaper.
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JuicyB
Joined: 08 Mar 2010
Posts: 278
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:05 am
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| GrilledEelHamatsu wrote: | Also Nintendo and Mircosoft's next systems GALAXY and Xbox 3(both which will be publicly annouced at E3) along with SEGA's speculated "NEPTUNE"(SEGA will annouce next gen hardware in May, but won't reveal the project until September http://sammysatomi.webs.com) will all do away with disc media in favor of flash media. |
Last edited by JuicyB on Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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GrilledEelHamatsu
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 703
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:06 am
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| ZipZapZopTitania wrote: | Okay, thank you, God...I was so scared something awful was going to happen to my beloved FUNi...whew. So everything stays the same.
I freaking love you, Gen Fukunaga! Please, just...just don't leave FUNi...ever...EVER...  |
Calm down, you sound like your treating Funimation as a deity.
Anyway,I take it your anti Sentai. I've seen some of your biased post about them.
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GrilledEelHamatsu
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 703
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:07 am
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| ZipZapZopTitania wrote: | Okay, thank you, God...I was so scared something awful was going to happen to my beloved FUNi...whew. So everything stays the same.
I freaking love you, Gen Fukunaga! Please, just...just don't leave FUNi...ever...EVER... |
Calm down, you sound like your treating Funimation as a deity.
Anyway,I take it your anti Sentai. I've seen some of your biased post about them.
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Vapors
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Posts: 139
Location: Bay Area
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:07 am
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One thing I am curious about that no one seems to be thinking about is who are the 3 other names mentioned that helped buy Funi and what is their goal for the company?
I mean, one is a billionaire, so what does he see in Funi that was worth taking the time to invest his captial? Most anime fans by now recognize that the anime market has shrunk and doesn't appear to be growing (if it is, its growing very slowly). Gen is said to be a minority shareholder in the press release, so while he will still be CEO of the company and making the business decisions, he ultimately has to answer to the other shareholders in the group.
I'm sure ANN is gonna talk to Gen and hopefully there is some clarity about what the new majority investors have in store for their latest investment.
At least this part is over now and for the time being Funi can go on being Funi and we can continue to enjoy the anime they provide.
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GrilledEelHamatsu
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 703
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:19 am
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| JuicyB wrote: |
| GrilledEelHamatsu wrote: | Also Nintendo and Mircosoft's next systems GALAXY and Xbox 3(both which will be publicly annouced at E3) along with SEGA's speculated "NEPTUNE"(SEGA will annouce next gen hardware in May, but won't reveal the project until September http://sammysatomi.webs.com) will all do away with disc media in favor of flash media. |
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Both Nintendo and MS are going to publicly annouce thier new console projects at this year's E3. Every industry expert is saying the same thing.
Your going eat your words and skecptism about SEGA, they are planning to reveal some interesting things next month. No joke.
SEGA also filed a new game tablet trademark called "KIDSPAD" under thier SEGA TOYS division last month, they will publicly annouce this thing next month as well.
Sorry for getting off topic, anyway Flash media is the wave of the future. Its cheaper to produce,can hold more capacity then DVD, pirate free, can produce HD resolution better than DVD and BD, you'll all soon see why its going to catch on and why by 2015 we'll be watching all anime on a flash media card that will keep our pockets full.
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enurtsol
Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14761
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:22 am
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| GrilledEelHamatsu wrote: | | All of these products will see light of day next year when I forsee another anime R1/R2 boom especially since I think Japan's economy is going to surpass China's in the next decade. |
Wait what? Not with China's 1.3 billion people getting richer and Japan's shrinking population. 
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Echo_City
Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Posts: 1236
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:54 am
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| Quote: | | 1 - so Gen Fukunaga is in control of day-to-day affairs again? Did he ever leave (in 2005)? Will he be more active now? |
Does anyone else remember a quote from Gen Fukunaga a while back, when he stated that he himself, despite having ample resources and alleged drive, would not buy Funimation back as it would impede other investments that he and his "investment group" were involved in?
(I knew I should have bookmarked it, it was on ANN, of course)
| Quote: | | nor is Sega going to announce a console |
Sega capitulated on the console market, abandoning the Dreamcast without a full fight. Then they subjugated themselves to their competitors, and rode their coat-tails and ate their scraps to survive ever since. They've let sonic go to pot, a capital offense IMO. 
| Quote: | | In a somewhat related note, there are better than 400 billionaires in the US? Goddamn. Spare a few hundred c-notes to help a brother out? |
They already are. They're buying your anime companies. Also, trickle-down economics. Unless they hoard it in a box under their very huge mattress, their money is making you those c-notes. However, I wouldn't be adverse to getting on their dole if they had one. Just sayin'
| Quote: | | Part of me thinks it's a good thing that Funi is now the pet project of a billionaire anime fan. |
If only. The billionaire probably isn't really aware of what Funimation is, he just sees its earning potential, and leaves the details to his subordinates who handle the brunt of investing. Not that such practice is a bad thing. Or maybe the billionaire needs to incur a loss for tax purposes, and is hoping Funi will be that loss? Pretty dark, but it's possible.
| Quote: | | Calm down, you sound like your treating Funimation as a deity. |
Yeah, maybe Cloacina. Though perhaps Discordia/Strife as they pain me so. They release some titles I want, they help out the conventions that I go to, and they help keep anime alive. At the same time, they have no "soul". Maybe it's the perceived difference between Greenfield & Fukunaga? (Dedicated fan who does it out of passion versus callous, calculating businessman who seems aloof. Don't remember Gen rocking the con circuit, or signing my goods  )
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nhat
Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 922
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:15 am
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| dragonrider_cody wrote: | | Am I the only person that finds it a little depressing that R1's largest anime distributor was sold for only $24 million? Wow! I guess that shows how much the market has shrank, considering Navarre paid over a hundred million for them.
Hell, back in 2006 20% of ADV was sold for only a little less. But on the bright side, it means there will likely be few changes. But considering how tough the home entertainment market is getting, let's hope these investors are patient. |
yeah $24 million is a lot for just a single person but for a business that have hundreds of people and logistics, it's not really that much especially when it's suppose to be the #1 anime distributor in the country.
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Guren Alchemist4
Joined: 22 Aug 2010
Posts: 347
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:42 am
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I just hope Funimation can keep going cause they are pretty much the only anime company that is bring series to the States in a consistent basis. Now that they got this out of the way, they can finally announce when they plan to release the fourth season of One Piece cause they really had me worried earlier today when I couldn't find a concrete release date.
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WhosAsking
Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 79
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:53 am
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| Kit-Tsukasa wrote: |
| Charred Knight wrote: |
| dragonrider_cody wrote: | | Am I the only person that finds it a little depressing that R1's largest anime distributor was sold for only $24 million? Wow! I guess that shows how much the market has shrank, considering Navarre paid over a hundred million for them.
Hell, back in 2006 20% of ADV was sold for only a little less. But on the bright side, it means there will likely be few changes. But considering how tough the home entertainment market is getting, let's hope these investors are patient. |
The market collapsed in 2007, Geneon is gone, ADV (as section 23), and Bandai Ent, are barely hanging on, and we are never going to see the return of the major tv series again. |
Not sure if anyone mentioned this, but you forgot Right Stuf and Media Blasters. Media Blasters has gotten quiet lately though and Right Stuf is really just making its cash off being a major distributor while picking up a few licenses here and there.
NIS is just getting started, so we'll have to wait and see how that turns out.
Selling for $24 million sounds relatively reasonable considering Navarre mentioned that no "good" buyer was willing to buy Funimation. Considering Funimation was on a "spending spree" and Navarre bought them at an overvalued price, this huge deduction makes logical sense. |
I'll give you RightStuf (especially through Nozomi), but I think Media Blasters is in the same boat as Bandai and the the pieces of the old ADV (S23, Sentai, etc.): just hanging on. The only other big name in anime/manga in the US is Viz.
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WhosAsking
Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 79
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:06 am
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| GrilledEelHamatsu wrote: | |
Sorry for getting off topic, anyway Flash media is the wave of the future. Its cheaper to produce,can hold more capacity then DVD, pirate free, can produce HD resolution better than DVD and BD, you'll all soon see why its going to catch on and why by 2015 we'll be watching all anime on a flash media card that will keep our pockets full. |
As one who knows the technical issues associated with flash technology (basically, it's a lot more difficult to mass-produce flash memory than an optical disc--the latter can simply be pressed for about $1 per 25/50GB disc while NAND flash is still hovering around $1 per GB), I don't see optical discs going away anytime soon.
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