Forum - View topicAnswerman - All of Your Streams
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Fencedude5609
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Why should I work it out? Your original post was crap, for reasons that have been adequately explained in the very article we are discussing and contained a sentence that literally made no sense on any logical or coherent level |
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reanimator
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It's still there. Jetro published 31 page report (in Japanese) and the picture is based from page 14 of the original report. |
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CrownKlown
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I wouldn't say the dvd is dying. Or physical anime that is. Sentai and Funi alone release license well over ten shows each a year, which is like infinity compared to the early days of anime when you had Dragon Ball, and maybe a few other shows. Sure not ever show will come out here, and the releases may have slowed some, but I am still amazed walking into a store and seeing some rather mediocre shows being released.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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I just want to point out that Mesonoxian Eve's posts are precisely why we bring someone in with actual first-hand experience in all of these fields with additional direct access to professionals who work in said fields to answer these questions, and it isn't based on gut instinct, what "seems right" to someone who has never ever worked in the industry at all, or any other kind of bullshit hearsay.
Misinformation spreads much faster and much more effectively than the truth. Then you get people who "feel" like their uninformed, usually totally wrong opinion about something that does have an objective truth to it is objectively right and then they spread that around. Then the conversation devolves into a bunch of people who have really no clue what they're talking about - or have just enough information that they're incorrectly interpreting - arguing over who's more right about this thing that anyone who actually works in the industry they're arguing about can set the record straight for them inside of a few minutes. Of course, egos will prevent people from just listening to the person who actually is the working expert, but by providing one who can give you the straight dope on this stuff, maybe we can curtail the sheer amount of bad information, straight-up falsehoods and unfortunately-adopted "common wisdom" that might not actually be true. |
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relentlessflame
Posts: 188 |
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I know this part wasn't directed at anyone in particular, but I mean this in complete sincerity: if I incorrectly interpreted any information or there is anything I said that can have the record set straight about, I absolutely covet that chance. Mostly I was only attempting to cast doubt on the theory proposed, but the way this is stated is like we're all just idiots. I strive to learn and improve. Like I said, I know this wasn't directed at anyone particular, but I'm just throwing it out there: I absolutely want any theory I offer to be challenged by those who know better than I do. False information is a common enemy. |
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StormSky92
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I wonder if "Answerman" is going to be replaced every 4 or 5 years by a new person. It's going be a title like "The Doctor". What number Answerman is Justin? I only remember Brian doing it before him, but I know there were several others before him.
Last edited by StormSky92 on Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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OK. Why are you posting theories? You have direct access to someone who can answer your questions, both on these forums and via email. Ask Justin, he can tell you if you're right or wrong. You don't really need to have theories about what he says, or come up with your own explanations based on your feelings about how things should or might work, or any of that. Justin does not present "theories", he's telling you how it works because he actually works with this stuff first hand. Blind skepticism isn't a virtue. Skepticism needs to be based on something, some reasonable doubt, something based on facts and figures that you have. Saying "I know you work with this stuff for a living and are telling me to my face that this is how it works, and I've never spent a day of my life working with any of this stuff at all, but let me tell you my theory on how it actually works" is egotism. Arrogance. An unwillingness to let go of misinformation and bad analysis. Yeah I do think it's kind of stupid. Mostly arrogant, but kind of stupid. Listen to people who know things. |
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relentlessflame
Posts: 188 |
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I think that's a bit harsh. You're assuming that I'm basing my comment on nothing but speaking out of my butt and that I'm not listening, and that I was saying something to contradict Justin in any way. (Did you read what I said and still come to that conclusion?) Rather, I've been reading and researching objective evidence, and listening to people like Justin and others in the industry for years. I think that everything I said is consistent with what has been said by these people, and that I'm not introducing any "misinformation" or bad "analysis" -- only piecing together the information I've been told by experts. But I'm not claiming to have all the answers, and in piecing things together I may be missing something. I want to listen to people who know things, and I want them to talk back. That's why I'm posting on the forum -- to have a conversation about what I've learned and to learn from others. And my whole point of making that comment was to show that my intention was not to be arrogant -- even though you take it that way. Basically, what you're saying is that if you're not Justin or another person in the industry, you don't have any business talking about these issues at all, ever, even when other people post things that the visible evidence calls into question. Since Justin isn't around to argue back against misinformation all the time, should not the rest of us who are trying our best to be educated try to cast doubt where we can? I feel like I didn't deserve this rant from you, but I guess I brought it upon myself for making the statement. I consider myself put in my place now and will keep on listening, as I always have strived to do. |
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Juno016
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But that's no fun. D: *cough* I see where Eve is coming from, though. He's saying that the graph showed that overall sales of both individual DVD's and collectors DVD sets are down, but that the cheaper collectors DVD sets have "successfully" lessened the fall to something manageable. To debate his claim, you need to find something that illustrates whether or not collector set-released shows have started earning more than individual DVD-released shows or not. I can't say whether that is the case or not, but I'm at least aware of how the DVD sets have become demanded enough to be the standard. They're probably a lot more profitable in the West than individual DVD sales, and if so, are more likely to be the ones keeping the physical industry from being neglected altogether, despite the decline. Considering the people who are interested in physical releases over things like Hulu and Netflix and other streaming sites are collectors, collectors DVD sets may be the best bet to keep the physical industry to a stable ground so it won't completely disappear. That said, Zac is right. Justin's here, now. It's okay to debate things in the forums, but it's probably a little more productive to just ask him if we're not coming to a consensus. And if we want what will most likely be the truth. |
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Fencedude5609
Posts: 5088 |
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Uhhh...? relentlessflame does "know things". He's one of the top people in "fandom" I know who's spent time actually learning about this stuff. Similarly, I know Eve is talking out his ass, because I've discussed these very same things with people who know what they are talking about, and have the data to back it up. As relentlessflame alluded to, the data in the graph I posted comes from a report published by [url=]JETRO[/url], the Japanese External Trade Organization, and was compiled by ultimatemegax, who definitely knows what he's talking about. (I believe relentlessflame has a link to the report, I do not have one off-hand). Part of the problem is you basically assume all of us "fans" have no idea what we are talking about, which is incredibly far from the truth. One thing I was hoping for from the new Answerman would be for certain people among the regulars here to actually pay attention to the realities of the anime market, instead of just pulling things out of their butt. Sadly, that does appear to not be the case. |
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configspace
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One has to ask, why then did all the US licensees eventually move to box sets from singles? If it was profitable with expensive singles or lower volume sets, why then did they do it?
If Japanese prices are the road to success, why then doesn't Aniplex of America sell everything as imports? Why do even they have multiple pricing tiers? There was already a universal downtrend from the anime bust, then the economic bust starting at the end of 2008 into 2009-2010, which affected all video and consumption in general. Could it be that if they had not done that, we would not see a flat revenue trend we see now but a further continuance downwards, if ALL publishers took the JP strategy for ALL titles? Personally speaking, if the US licensees did not switch to box sets I simply would not be able to buy as many titles as I do now, which is most of them. The higher the price, the closer it becomes to the situation like in Japan where the spread in sales between the handful at the top and the rest is gigantic. Just looking at the sales figures of the rest who aren't in the top 20 (out of at least 120+ per year) 3k or 2k copies per vol and less, means there's an average of a measly 3k or 2k people or less, that can afford to buy the show out of hundreds of thousands, if not millions of viewers. With prices so high, cutting it in half may not have an effect. It's like taking a $120,000 car and selling it for $60,000. You'll get a few more buyers, but not enough to recoup lost profits. The problem is most buyers in your base are like people who drive Camry's. Those same people who could not afford the ultra high end Mercedes still cannot afford the upper mid end Mercedes. But then, when you get down to the "Camry" level, then you start seeing movement. If you look at amazon.co.jp, you'll see popularity of US anime imports. Almost every single person comments about the amazingly low price, low enough to offset the skimpy extras. Now I do agree and realize, that many times, yes, for big ticket items they will loose money by lowering price since they are already getting a large marketshare i.e. people willing to save up and buy their 2 or 3 titles a year. But the problem is: what about the rest of the titles (most of them) that are not anywhere close to recouping costs from their initial sales alone? This gets to my point: why is every title is priced nearly the same? You can't price something purely from the labor cost. You have to take into account customer sentiment and just as importantly customer income. You're some B rank show. Good, but you can't compete with Bake/Nise/etc-monogatari. The $500 that most of your customers manage to scrap together, they would rather spend on the *-monogatari show. So how then do you compete? You've got a million viewers and yet you've priced your good-but-comparatively inferior show exactly the same as your competitors at $500, so you end up ~2k buyers out of those million viewers. Does it always make sense then, to price everything the same? Coming back to what I mentioned above, I basically have rough budget. That means in the US a ton of titles get my money. In Japan that would only be a handful. The rest would lose out, even though I would like to buy them but can't. (again, we see those who are patient, are willing to buy the US imports on amazon.co.jp) |
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relentlessflame
Posts: 188 |
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I edited this in my earlier post (that has possibly been discredited, so take it for what it's worth) but what I've heard multiple industry officials say was that, among other reasons, it was due to pressure from retailers after the anime bubble burst and available shelf space shrunk considerably. Based on this, it stands to reason that "Japanese pricing" (generally large quantities of high-priced singles) would not have been considered viable as long as they were relying on retailers to provide them with space in stores, as there was not that much space available (and anime was no longer pushing enough volume to make it worthwhile for the stores to stock it all). I recall this being discussed on multiple ANNcast episodes and in various industry interviews discussing the burst of the anime bubble. (Particularly, I recall an interview with a former Bandai Entertainment exec that was interesting, among others.)
What I can offer as consumer-facing evidence (as someone who has been importing Japanese anime releases for about 8 years now) is that, even in Japan, prices for certain shows tier down over time with boxset re-releases. Not all shows get boxsets, of course, but some do, and provided that it isn't the first time that it's released on a medium (like a DVD show being released on BD for the first time), the subsequent re-releases tend to be cheaper. What I've observed that Aniplex of America has done is take a similar approach in the U.S. The closer the release is to the original Japanese release, the closer it is to Japanese pricing. So the evidence suggests that the premium (in their view) is for "timeliness", and for fidelity to what the Japanese customers got. It stands to reason that Aniplex is aware that North Americans are used to paying less for anime right now, and that they would seek to find a little bit of a compromise (even if many argue that it isn't enough). They generally seem to be following a principle of "not leaving money on the table", and trying to take the premium off the top first, and keep going for lower price points as time goes on to reach as many customers as possible (and people who are willing to pay more first). Personally speaking, I lost most interest in the North American anime market when it shifted away from high-value collector's singles to lower-budget "cheap" releases and boxsets. That's why I shifted mostly to importing Japanese releases, which seemed to provide a more significant value than just the show itself (which I had typically already seen). It does mean that I collect less shows than I might if it were cheaper, but my collection is significantly large anyway so I'm okay with this. |
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WWAanimefan
Posts: 60 Location: Everett WA USA |
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I am trying to figure out a way to put this as I write this so please forgive me. I really blew it on the last post. I thought that Justin had done this column in the past. Oops. Sorry. I guess I have been following this site for so long I cannot keep my facts straight.
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YamadaKun
 Posts: 304 Location: Sunny California |
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Reverse importation is bullshit and has never happened. If I go to Amazon.JP and search for some popular anime that happens to be released in both countries, I'll notice that the R1 rank will in the 10000s, while the JP anime will be in the 10s or 100s. Yeah, reverse importation is such a worry, right guys? Just like who Code Geass/Code Geass R2 sold over 1 million combined, despite being like $50 for one volume. Yeah, the Japanese have the urge to buy cheaper US releases, with no voice actor promos(or at least voice actors they care about/understand), no extras and just bare bones, amirite? No, I'm not right! Reverse importation is a stupid myth, that has yet to be proven. I'm from the US and I like certain Disney movies for my Blu-Ray player. The Diamond Edition costs $60. I also go to Hong Kong often and I could get that much cheaper, but WHY? The Original Diamond Edition is worth the $60. The inferior HK version is not. Lion King was like $40 a pop and it sold like 3 million in a week. I don't think most Americans would import from anywhere else.
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relentlessflame
Posts: 188 |
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Well, as a small point of order, I think we need to be clear whether the R1 is being sold officially by Amazon in the JP Store, or just by someone in the marketplace. If it's through the marketplace, then there probably isn't enough quantity available to rank. But it's also often possible for the products to be ordered from the Amazon US website and shipped internationally and that wouldn't count in that ranking either. So I think the evidence you're offering is at least subjective. But all that aside, let me just say clearly that I don't know how many people "reverse import" (although I do "import"). But I can say one thing that I think may be relevant to the perspective of the Japanese companies, and that's my opinion as a buyer. If I spend $400-700 collecting the Limited Collectors Edition of a series, my expectation is that the release will have some amount of collector's value. If I saw the exact same product being sold officially for a fraction of the cost very shortly thereafter, I would feel a bit slighted. It may not be enough for me to turn around start "reverse importing" right away, but it might seed a little bit of doubt the next time, and may make me feel a little bitter towards the company. I know that this is exactly what happened with ADV Films in the R1 market back in the days before the collapse; they started to release cheaper boxsets almost immediately after last single came out, and these were often just the singles collected in a box and sold for less. And sooner or later collectors started saying "wait a minute..." This was one of the many things that I remember precipitated the push towards boxsets; because people just started thinking "well, they're just going to release a box right after anyway". (I remember many of the conversations on AoD Forums at the time.) So anyway, all that to say that whether people actually "reverse import" or not is perhaps not the issue. Equally valuable is taking some sort of gesture to make sure the customers paying more feel like they're valued. You may think that's stupid, discriminatory, "class-ist" or all sorts of other things... but when your business is based in part on the loyalty of your most devoted and highest-paying audience, that's something you probably don't want to mess with lightly. As long as R1 releases continue to have the reputation of being late, poorer-quality versions of the original (or that the amount saved is not worth the hassle), that function is served. Again, this is just my opinion as an importer/collector myself, and I'm not trying to say it's shared by everyone... but I've witnessed and participated in enough discussions among other importers (and read enough comments from collectors in Japan) that I think the viewpoint is not uncommon. It also tends to match the behaviour the Japanese publishers tend to display towards their customers, as I discussed in the previous post: preserving the collector's value by not undercutting their own products too quickly. (I'm sorry for continuing to participate in this thread, but this is one issue where I feel I can legitimately offer a relevant personal perspective.) |
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