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Answerman - All of Your Streams


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YamadaKun



Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 304
Location: Sunny California
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:05 am Reply with quote
I should also mention that aside from being bullshit, some companies have deals. Royalty deals. The licencor has to pay a certain amount of their profits to the studio/producers, who made the anime. I.E If Funimation gets some anime of TMS and they make $5,000,000 of DVD/merchandise sales, they would have to pay, let's say 25% of that earning to TMS, which means TMS would get $1.25 million. In some cases, buying the R1 version will still pocket money for the original studio, who made the damn thing. This is more evidence reverse importation is shit and has no weight to it. Also, forcing locked subs=/=deterrent, because they don't have money to buy the 7500 yen volume of some anime, which has 3 episodes and they can only afford, what's viable. They won't move to the original JP version, just because they can't watch the US version, without reading English text. Just plain idiotic.
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ColonelYao47



Joined: 01 Jan 2013
Posts: 274
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:05 am Reply with quote
Don't be sorry. This is probably just me but I enjoy talking about the dynamics of consumer behavior. If there was a series that I passionately care about (to the point of borderline obsession), I probably want the best possible release that money can buy. If I don't know about a series, I'm more inclined to stream or buy a Funimation-style release.

This is why I think the Garden of Sinners DVD box set is the one Aniplex USA product that was handled poorly. There are no legal ways to easily access this series. Casual fans or people who haven't experienced this franchise will think $150 is much too high of a price to commit, especially when so much content is available at streaming sites. I know this because I feel this way even though I REALLY want to check it out. On the other hand, hardcore fans will be turned off by the late, "inferior" release. Even as a passive observer, I'm intrigued by all the extra stuff with the first Blu-Ray box set. If Rakkyo becomes my all-time favorite series, naturally I would want that limited item. My hope is they'll do a new release (when they include the new 3D movie) that will address both ends of the fan spectrum.
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relentlessflame



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 188
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:33 am Reply with quote
YamadaKun wrote:
I.E If Funimation gets some anime of TMS and they make $5,000,000 of DVD/merchandise sales, they would have to pay, let's say 25% of that earning to TMS, which means TMS would get $1.25 million. In some cases, buying the R1 version will still pocket money for the original studio, who made the damn thing. This is more evidence reverse importation is shit and has no weight to it.

But if you re-read the original article, Justin's key assertion is that the collector market size is relatively fixed, and you know that the R1 releases are much less expensive than the R2 releases. In addition, R1 releases involve an extra middleman who has to take a cut for their work. If the same amount of people pay less money for a product and there are more people who need to take a cut, the amount of revenue will be lower, even if they're paying a percentage in royalties. Sure, "some" is better than "none", but "more" is also better than "less". Which ties to the next point...


YamadaKun wrote:
Also, forcing locked subs=/=deterrent, because they don't have money to buy the 7500 yen volume of some anime, which has 3 episodes and they can only afford, what's viable. They won't move to the original JP version, just because they can't watch the US version, without reading English text. Just plain idiotic.

People who could never afford the product in the first place were never potential customers for that release, so whatever they do is gravy (to some degree, anyway). But, if you devalue the product to the collectors who would otherwise be able and willing to pay the higher price, then you have a problem.

If you want to use an analogy, it's like how crowd-funded projects (i.e. Kickstarter) have rewards depending on the amount you donate. People who contribute more usually get better rewards than people who contribute less. And to a certain degree, given that the world is increasingly connected, there needs to be something to keep that distinction in place as long as the anime industry is relying so much on their top-spenders to fund things.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:46 am Reply with quote
Just what we need, another person who is so full of himself. As if Mesonoxian Eve wasn't enough already.

YamadaKun wrote:
Reverse importation is bullshit and has never happened.


Reverse importation may not be a chronic problem but it has happened. Saying it has categorically never happened is just moronic, because there's always an exception for everything.

YamadaKun wrote:
If I go to Amazon.JP and search for some popular anime that happens to be released in both countries, I'll notice that the R1 rank will in the 10000s, while the JP anime will be in the 10s or 100s. Yeah, reverse importation is such a worry, right guys?


Of course it is a worry. The reason why the Japanese versions are so much higher-ranked is because of steps specifically designed to stop reverse importation. Steps such as forcing overseas distributors to wait several months or years before releasing their own versions, having online American retailers refuse to ship to Japan, that sort of thing. If those steps weren't taken, then more people would reverse import.

What you're basically doing is akin to pointing at low crime statistics and claiming that police and the justice system aren't needed, when in fact it is because of the police and the courts being there that crime is low in the first place.

YamadaKun wrote:
In some cases, buying the R1 version will still pocket money for the original studio, who made the damn thing. This is more evidence reverse importation is shit and has no weight to it.


But the Japanese production committee won't get as much money from Japanese consumers reverse importing the American version as they would from Japanese consumers buying the Japanese version. You would know this if you knew basic mathematics.

If a Japanese consumer buys an American release instead of the Japanese release then the Japanese production committee gets less money. The consumer might pay $40 for the American version, and if we assume that half (which is a huge proportion) goes directly back to the Japanese production committee that's $20. Whereas if the same Japanese consumer paid $70 for the Japanese version the Japanese production committee would get that entire $70. With American versions almost always being cheaper than Japanese versions, and with American companies taking their own cut from that smaller amount, reverse importation will always result in less money for the production committee than reaping the entire sum of the more expensive Japanese release.

You'd best shut the hell up before you embarrass yourself any further.
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jr240483



Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 4369
Location: New York City,New York,USA
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:39 am Reply with quote
tasogarenootome wrote:
I've enjoyed the last couple of incarnations of Answerman and it sounds like Justin's version will be just as entertaining. Glad to have you doing this column.

The Hulu vs Netflix question was very interesting. So it also sounds like choosing to watch shows on Hulu could be another way to support a series you like.


Though their is a chance that they may get dropped now that Viz Media have its own streaming channel Neon Allley.



Also I'm susprised that there have anime series to be classified as OEA. first there is OVA ,then OAV , then ONA , now OEA? it definitely gets confusing with all of these classifications.
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 7579
Location: Wales
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:45 am Reply with quote
YamadaKun wrote:
Reverse importation is bullshit and has never happened.

It's silly how many times I have to dig this out, but since no-one ever seems to remember...

This is from someone who, like Justin, has actually worked inside the Anime bubble for years

http://schoolgirlmilkycrisis.com/blog/2011/09/ill-winds/
Jonathan Clements, 2009 wrote:
The first I heard about it was a day later, when a worried anime distributor called to pick my brains. UK online sales of one of his company’s titles, which we shall have to call Schoolgirl Milky Crisis, had suddenly, dramatically spiked. Initial elation turned to concern – why was he suddenly rushing to meet orders so much larger than usual? It turned out that the orders were mainly going abroad, and that’s when he asked me to dig around on the Internet.

It took less than a minute for me to track down the anime speculators and their excited bloggery. Which only made matters worse, because if I could do it, so could the Japanese licence holder. Many Japanese companies are utterly petrified of this sort of thing. You wish your anime were cheaper? They wish it were more expensive, because grey imports give them nightmares.

I believe the title in question was Stand Alone Complex. Don't quote him on that point, blame me.

YamadaKun wrote:
In some cases, buying the R1 version will still pocket money for the original studio

R1 licenses will always generate some money for the committee. Even if it flops, they still get their minimum guarantee but, to quote from the same article "Domestic sales will always come first for the Japanese, as foreign money, in these credit-crunchy times, is back to being just gravy".

configspace wrote:
One has to ask, why then did all the US licensees eventually move to box sets from singles? If it was profitable with expensive singles or lower volume sets, why then did they do it?

Has anyone emailed this to Justin yet?
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Blarg Monster



Joined: 12 Apr 2012
Posts: 27
Location: Some place called the Land of...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:50 pm Reply with quote
Zac's Post: Just ask Justin.. he knows everything you are talking about.

Everyone else: I WILL NOT BOW TO THE AUTHORITY! MY POST HAS BACKUP, IT'S CORRECT, I DON'T NEED TO HEAR THE ACTUAL ANSWERS!
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relentlessflame



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 188
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:24 pm Reply with quote
Blarg Monster wrote:
Zac's Post: Just ask Justin.. he knows everything you are talking about.

Everyone else: I WILL NOT BOW TO THE AUTHORITY! MY POST HAS BACKUP, IT'S CORRECT, I DON'T NEED TO HEAR THE ACTUAL ANSWERS!

The lesson learned here is [citation needed], I suppose. Although I absolutely believe that I've studied this subject extensively enough to make some reasonable statements within certain bounds, hopefully this new Answerman series will provide a lot of expert statements that can be quoted and considered "objective evidence" for any disagreements that arise in the future. At least then people have to argue against Justin's credentials and won't just assume you're an arrogant idiot without testing what you're saying for reasonableness.
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Kakugo



Joined: 29 Nov 2007
Posts: 163
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:35 pm Reply with quote
Good to have you in the Answer Throne, Justin. May your reign be long, your judgment swift, and less than 20% of questions be about Rosario + Vampire. Smile


YamadaKun wrote:
I.E If Funimation gets some anime of TMS and they make $5,000,000 of DVD/merchandise sales, they would have to pay, let's say 25% of that earning to TMS, which means TMS would get $1.25 million.


...okay, with all due respect, the numbers you're suggesting are in excess of 110,000 units, even if we assume FUNimation is getting $45 wholesale for every box set sold (and if Amazon sells them on pre-order for less than $40, that's clearly not the case). Maybe Dragonball and Robotech pulled those numbers back in the day. Something like the new Fujiko TV series would be lucky to pull 10% of those numbers.

I am very curious how much those royalties are, though. I've heard of 25% royalties without a minimum guarantee - I have little doubt that paying an extra $5,000 up front per episode can keep those royalties down. Also keep in mind FUNimation (and the like) are still paying to dub the show, market it, compile bonus features, manufacture packaging packaging and everything else they have to do with it. None of that's free, so even if they're pocketing 75% of it, a good chunk of that goes into merely producing the release itself. How much of a percentage does FUNimation have to typically keep before they even break even on producing an English dubbed version of a title?
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Tempest
I Run this place.
ANN Publisher


Joined: 29 Dec 2001
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:37 pm Reply with quote
CrownKlown wrote:
Why is reverse importation so feared then, if as you say there are no broad spectrum of consumers and they pay what they pay?


While Japanese consumers are willing to pay higher prices, it doesn't mean they won't pay a lower price when it's available.

So if an anime series is available for $2 / episode on BD in the USA, and it's available for $10+ / episode in Japan, a Japanese consumer who was willing to pay the $10+ might decide to buy the import instead. And the net revenue to the Japanese licensor is much, much lower on the US DVD since the gross profit is much lower in the first place, and then the US licensee takes their 50%.

So every time a Japanese consumer buys an imported US DVD/BD, instead of a Japanese disc, the Japanese publishers lose money.

On the other hand, every time a Japanese consumer buys the US disc when (s)he would not have bought the Japanese disc, the Japanese licensor might make a bit more money (provided their share of the profit on that series has now surpassed the initial minimum guaranty).

The general assumption is that the amount of extra money made from reverse importation is much lower than the amount of money lost from reverse importation.

-t
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Spotlesseden



Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: earth
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:35 pm Reply with quote
Agent355 wrote:
Hulu vs Netflix is interesting, and makes me rethink my stance on Hulu membership. As much as I hate the idea of paying a monthly membership fee and still seeing those annoying ads, if they really measure each show's viewership based on ad revenue (regardless of whether the viewer is a subscriber or not), it makes sense. And if Netflix doesn't even let companies know what shows do well, watching shows on Hulu instead seems like a way to communicate with anime companies.


watch in Netflix is a better way to support the anime industry than Hulu. If anime get alot of views, Netflix are willing to get pay more and get more. Netflix also know some users are mainly signup for anime. they have those data.
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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 5821
Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:21 am Reply with quote
relentlessflame wrote:
As long as R1 releases continue to have the reputation of being late, poorer-quality versions of the original (or that the amount saved is not worth the hassle), that function is served.....


Don't mind the R1 being later, or not having the booklets, cards or other speciality items. But poorer-quality is crap.

If collectors want to spend the money, to have same day as Japan, the fancy boxes and booklets, more power to you.

But if you are going to downgrade the quality of the actual R1 DVD and BD, there is no reason for anyone to buy a lower quality release. Might as well stick with the HD fansubs.
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jr240483



Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 4369
Location: New York City,New York,USA
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:08 am Reply with quote
TarsTarkas wrote:
relentlessflame wrote:
As long as R1 releases continue to have the reputation of being late, poorer-quality versions of the original (or that the amount saved is not worth the hassle), that function is served.....


Don't mind the R1 being later, or not having the booklets, cards or other speciality items. But poorer-quality is crap.

If collectors want to spend the money, to have same day as Japan, the fancy boxes and booklets, more power to you.

But if you are going to downgrade the quality of the actual R1 DVD and BD, there is no reason for anyone to buy a lower quality release. Might as well stick with the HD fansubs.


Unfortunately if everyone does that , it will hurt the sales for the companies that made them. its why anime companies are hell bent on removing fansubs , fandubs , and abridged series cause its hurts the industry in general.
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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 5821
Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:37 am Reply with quote
jr0904 wrote:
TarsTarkas wrote:
relentlessflame wrote:
As long as R1 releases continue to have the reputation of being late, poorer-quality versions of the original (or that the amount saved is not worth the hassle), that function is served.....


Don't mind the R1 being later, or not having the booklets, cards or other speciality items. But poorer-quality is crap.

If collectors want to spend the money, to have same day as Japan, the fancy boxes and booklets, more power to you.

But if you are going to downgrade the quality of the actual R1 DVD and BD, there is no reason for anyone to buy a lower quality release. Might as well stick with the HD fansubs.


Unfortunately if everyone does that , it will hurt the sales for the companies that made them. its why anime companies are hell bent on removing fansubs , fandubs , and abridged series cause its hurts the industry in general.


Well, don't purposefully make low quality DVD's and BD's. That would seem to be the answer.
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LordRobin



Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Posts: 354
Location: Akron, OH
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:49 am Reply with quote
The question about Hulu seemed to be referring to Hulu Plus, since the asker mentioned watching it on his Roku. Aren't Hulu and Hulu Plus two related but different things? The content acquisition method Justin describes makes perfect sense for Hulu, the free website. But Hulu Plus takes in subscriber revenue. Do they really share none of that revenue with the content providers? And the content providers are fine with that?

I'm not a subscriber to Hulu Plus, but I was under the impression that it's more than just "the Hulu website, except on TV and you gotta pay for it". Am I wrong?

------RM
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