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NEWS: AnimeMusicVideos.Org Served with Cease & Desist Order


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remember love



Joined: 24 Sep 2005
Posts: 764
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:37 am Reply with quote
dragoon130 wrote:
I think this is a load of bull. After I read this I went and serched all 3 bands and still got the same number of amv's that I got in august. If it did happen AMV.org put them back up as soon as the record lable pricks were happy. Anyway them demanding it is technically against the law considering the fact the amv it's self is owned by the maker the song just happens to be included. it would be like some record lable saying that they don't want the songs in a movie cause they aint getting paid. so by law they had no right to say it was wrong.


First off, Those songs in the movie were given permission to use them. They don't just place any song in a movie that they want they have to get direct permisson to do so. Movies require alot of permissions for copyright material. Even a Coke-Cola can needs permission to be in there even though it's basically free advertisement.

Secondly, The amvs are there but you can't download them. The links are basically broken to say.

Third AMVs, are copy-right infringement when we allow people to download them. Making them for ourselves for only personaly use is not against the copy-right but when we have them on the internet for people to download them or copy them then we are breaking the copy-right laws.
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OneHotAlchemist



Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Posts: 85
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:23 am Reply with quote
This just reeks of idiocy.

While the songs are indeed copyrighted, its more of a form of free advertising.

Its unlikely anyone's going to rip the audio off of a movie. Its not like its going to replace their record sales.

Its simply the record company jumping at anything and everything involving online music, curse the repurcussions.
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remember love



Joined: 24 Sep 2005
Posts: 764
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:33 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Its unlikely anyone's going to rip the audio off of a movie. Its not like its going to replace their record sales.


Unlikely but possible. They are a company and they can't take chances. If there is a slightest chance of someone being able or even doing so at ripping the music off the video then they have to stop it.
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OneHotAlchemist



Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Posts: 85
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:36 am Reply with quote
remember love wrote:
Quote:
Its unlikely anyone's going to rip the audio off of a movie. Its not like its going to replace their record sales.


Unlikely but possible. They are a company and they can't take chances. If there is a slightest chance of someone being able or even doing so at ripping the music off the video then they have to stop it.


That's the irony of it. Last I checked, filesharing is still alive and kicking. If someone really wanted a song, they're gonna download the mp3. Until they solve that problem, attacking your free advertising isn't going to do much but hurt you.
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remember love



Joined: 24 Sep 2005
Posts: 764
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:40 am Reply with quote
OneHotAlchemist wrote:
remember love wrote:
Quote:
Its unlikely anyone's going to rip the audio off of a movie. Its not like its going to replace their record sales.


Unlikely but possible. They are a company and they can't take chances. If there is a slightest chance of someone being able or even doing so at ripping the music off the video then they have to stop it.


That's the irony of it. Last I checked, filesharing is still alive and kicking. If someone really wanted a song, they're gonna download the mp3. Until they solve that problem, attacking your free advertising isn't going to do much but hurt you.


Alot of the arguements for people and filesharing were also the same as it's free advertisement. A lot of people stated that if they like the music they would buy the CD....of course I think we all or at least myself know that is pure bullcrap now that alot of people have mp3 players and Ipods where we don't need cds as much. But now that alot of the filesharing have you pay money to use them, the record companys did back off them to a degree. I'm not sure but I do believe there are still lawsuits being issued out for heavy downloaders on the filesharing programs that are still free.
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OneHotAlchemist



Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Posts: 85
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:48 am Reply with quote
remember love wrote:
OneHotAlchemist wrote:
remember love wrote:
Quote:
Its unlikely anyone's going to rip the audio off of a movie. Its not like its going to replace their record sales.


Unlikely but possible. They are a company and they can't take chances. If there is a slightest chance of someone being able or even doing so at ripping the music off the video then they have to stop it.


That's the irony of it. Last I checked, filesharing is still alive and kicking. If someone really wanted a song, they're gonna download the mp3. Until they solve that problem, attacking your free advertising isn't going to do much but hurt you.


Alot of the arguements for people and filesharing were also the same as it's free advertisement. A lot of people stated that if they like the music they would buy the CD....of course I think we all or at least myself know that is pure bullcrap now that alot of people have mp3 players and Ipods where we don't need cds as much. But now that alot of the filesharing have you pay money to use them, the record companys did back off them to a degree. I'm not sure but I do believe there are still lawsuits being issued out for heavy downloaders on the filesharing programs that are still free.


Correct, there are some lawsuits against heavy downloaders. However, the majority of people remain unaffected. (gee, I like that song).

The difference between the "free advertising" with an AMV and with an MP3 is that an mp3 is the actial product. It can be a pain to rip an audio track off of an AMV and clean it up for use as an mp3. Its not like you can take an amv and put it into your ipod (well ipod video excluded), and listen to it whenever you want. That's the crux of the problem. Perhaps the record companies shouldn't even play songs on the radio anymore, since someone could copy it from there and distribute it.
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Kazuki-san



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2251
Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:41 am Reply with quote
remember love wrote:
I'm not sure but I do believe there are still lawsuits being issued out for heavy downloaders on the filesharing programs that are still free.


OneHotAlchemist wrote:
Correct, there are some lawsuits against heavy downloaders. However, the majority of people remain unaffected. (gee, I like that song).

Last I checked, which was not recently, suits were being brought not against heavy downloaders, but those that share a large number of songs (i.e. heavy uploaders).

OneHotAlchemist wrote:
The difference between the "free advertising" with an AMV and with an MP3 is that an mp3 is the actial product. It can be a pain to rip an audio track off of an AMV and clean it up for use as an mp3.


Irregardless of what was alluded to in the original thread on AMV.org, the company is not concerned with someone ripping the audio off of a music video to serve as their replacement for a cd. What they are concerned with is the lack of licensing fees, royalties and the like that they are rightfully (or would you rather me say legally?) entitled to before someone is allowed to use the music they hold a copyright to in such a manner. Sure, no one would argue that this is not free advertisment, nobody in this case is profiting from it, at least on the AMV.org end of things. Nevertheless, it is the right of the copyright holder to stop the use of their explicit rights without permission by another, and they are doing so in this case.


Last edited by Kazuki-san on Mon Nov 21, 2005 12:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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animalia555



Joined: 12 Jun 2004
Posts: 467
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 12:11 pm Reply with quote
I know it is perfectly legal for the company to do this but it still stinks like a skunk eating garlic.

One more nostalgic part of anime fandom goes *blows rasberry*


Last edited by animalia555 on Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:22 pm; edited 5 times in total
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Tempest
I Run this place.
ANN Publisher


Joined: 29 Dec 2001
Posts: 10419
Location: Do not message me for support.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 12:32 pm Reply with quote
dragoon130 wrote:
I think this is a load of bull. After I read this I went and serched all 3 bands and still got the same number of amv's that I got in august.


There are no longer any links to downloads for those AMVs. If you search for "Evanescence" you'll notice a big red NONE beside all 1700+ results.

Quote:
Anyway them demanding it is technically against the law considering


Uhh, no. It is completely within the rights of the owner of a copyrighted work to request that work be removed froma website. In fact, it's within their right to sue anyone who is seen as propagating the illegal distribution or duplication of that song or derivative works containing that song. The copyright owner is not always the author / singer. The creator of a work can transfer the rights to another entity. That other entity may also be acting as an agent for the creator.

Quote:
like some record lable saying that they don't want the songs in a movie cause they aint getting paid.


The copyright owners (perhaps the creator, perhaps the recod label, perhaps someone else) do get paid for that. If they weren't paid, they wouldn't permit it.

[Edit: Ooops, Remember Love beat me to these points, everything he said is correct.]

-t
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JHawkNH



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 42
Location: Minnesota
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 2:18 pm Reply with quote
I know I have found many of the songs and bands that I listen to now thanks to AMV's. Maybe the best option we have now is an email campaine and a boycott of the bands, in hopes for setting an example and trying to keep other bands and music companies from following suit.
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remember love



Joined: 24 Sep 2005
Posts: 764
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 2:32 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Last I checked, which was not recently, suits were being brought not against heavy downloaders, but those that share a large number of songs (i.e. heavy uploaders).

Sorry, I meant uploaders, my mistake.

Quote:
I know I have found many of the songs and bands that I listen to now thanks to AMV's. Maybe the best option we have now is an email campaine and a boycott of the bands, in hopes for setting an example and trying to keep other bands and music companies from following suit.


No. Doing so will only make more bands aware of AMV.org and then they'll have their songs off the site. Also, boycott won't work because it'd only be a selected number of people and won't make a lick of a difference. You'll be doing more damage then helping. As a result we just got to allow this to happen nothing we can do..it's there legal right to do so. Though like I said if I were a Band I would allow it as for free advertisement but I'm not the band and I understand why they would want to take off their music. So, I am not angry about what's happening. So, JHawk just leave it be.

Quote:
[Edit: Ooops, Remember Love beat me to these points, everything he said is correct.]


That's a first isn't it? Laughing
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Coderjoe



Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Posts: 53
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:51 pm Reply with quote
JHawkNH wrote:
I know I have found many of the songs and bands that I listen to now thanks to AMV's. Maybe the best option we have now is an email campaine and a boycott of the bands, in hopes for setting an example and trying to keep other bands and music companies from following suit.

This would not be a good idea. This will raise the recording industry's awareness of AMVs and the Org, which is, more likely than not, going to cause a flurry of C&D letters or worse. Note that while copyright law does not require copyright owners to vigorously defend their works, the recording industry believes that it is not in their best interest to allow people to copy their songs at all because they want to make money off of it any way they can. If it were possible, the recording industry (and the movie industry, for that matter) would LOVE it if they could have a leakproof pipe from their studios into your brain, along with pay per play licensing.
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The Xenos



Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Boston
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:53 pm Reply with quote
I just remembered that the whole reason I iterested in Seether was because a friend wanted to make an AMV to one of their songs. Someone beat him to it, but not quite what the wanted to do.

Anyway, I know it's technically illegal, but I think the label is shooting themseves in the foot. As I said, I honestly have bought many CDs because I first heard a band on an AMV and really liked them.

-Xenos
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SoloButterfly



Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 239
Location: Masaki Residence
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:32 pm Reply with quote
*sigh* well..another bit of my online joy has been murdered today. I understand why it's happened, but I can still join in the chorus of voices that wish it wasn't so.

I, like many others who've already proclaimed it, discovered many new bands (and anime for that matter) by AMVs. If worse comes to worse AMV could be just a database of AMVs. I've seen it happen to some of my old anime mp3 haunts.

As an artist myself I can see how a company or a band wouldn't want their work used in ways that are against their own views. But one must face that everyone approaches things with their own view point and no one will ever view the exact same thing the exact same way. On the flip side though, having someone be inspired by something you did would be very flattering, even if their interpretation was radically different from what you intended.

It's fandom, and it's too bad that there are increasingly fewer and fewer legal ways to be a creative fan. Fanfiction may very well be next like some have said. I recall J.K. Rowling being very upset with some of the fanfiction that has been brought on by her popular series.

But once you put your ideas out there into the world, you're going to have to accept that they are going to be taken in by others and most likely reinterpretated and you should take it as a compliment that you are truly creative when you have inspired others to share and discuss their own interpretations. I guess it's just too bad we live in a world that requires money. If it were possible to create and share and survive off of just a warm feeling everytime someone shared what you had created then we'd be in a happier place. And now I think it's time I had a crash landing back into reality.
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kiwidomingobleu



Joined: 05 Mar 2004
Posts: 9
Location: Dayton, Ohio
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:22 pm Reply with quote
Just don't buy from wind-up records anymore

Let them know that doing something like that doesn't come without consequences from the fans. Of course if their sales were to fall they'd probably blame it on people downloading the songs of Kazaa or something
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