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NEWS: Virginia Man Found Guilty of Downloading Child Porn


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Kazuki-san



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2251
Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:16 am Reply with quote
angel_lover wrote:

The sky may not be falling yet, but as the late Justice William O. Douglas warned, don't you think it's getting a little dark in here?

Perhaps. But what people fail to realize is this will go on until the balance of power shifts in our government, as it inevitably does and will. Then the laws will be revised to the point where they really have no teeth. Eventually the power will shift back the other way, and the same process will start all over again.
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fxg97873



Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 211
Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:25 am Reply with quote
Kazuki-san wrote:
angel_lover wrote:

The sky may not be falling yet, but as the late Justice William O. Douglas warned, don't you think it's getting a little dark in here?

Perhaps. But what people fail to realize is this will go on until the balance of power shifts in our government, as it inevitably does and will. Then the laws will be revised to the point where they really have no teeth. Eventually the power will shift back the other way, and the same process will start all over again.


Yes, but it will be up to somebody to promote those revisions and to shift the balance of power.

This brings me to my point:
Obviously both the fans and companies have invested millions of dollars (billions?) into anime, manga and doujinshi.

Who there in Washington is looking out for our interest and investments?
Currently we take for granted that we are able to own what we own, see what we see and (for doujinshi artists) create what they create.

But it could all be taken away the next the day if we do not have somebody representing us. We need a voice.

The anime, manga and doujinshi demographic tends to already be at a disadvantage due its general age group (the lack of voting kind).



I am going to start engaging the fans and different anime and manga companies to promote the formation of specialized groups to represent our interests in Washington

Anime and Manga companies have millions of dollars at stake with their current and past properties. The Japanese companies should also be engaged as they rely on licensing fees and sales from the U.S. to continue their industry.

One thing everyone in this thread must understand is that whether you agreed with each other or not, Japanese anime and manga is created to have mass appeal and its norms are culturally different. So even if you find some themes reprehensible, there is an extremely high chance that those themes are showing up in everyone's favorite anime. Maybe it's just for a few seconds each episode...but it could be enough to render most shows un-importable.
(that or they are imported and end up looking like 4kids One Pice and WB's Cardcaptors)


We are a minority but a very vocal one...with an almost religious zeal so we do have that going for us (According to anime-cons.com, we have over one hundred anime conventions in the U.S. so I am pretty sure we will be able to interact and mobilize our "base")

In any case, I would like to have more dialog on this and I will start a separate thread on it. I would like to not only engage the anime companies but perhaps create an interest group from interested members of the anime community.

This way we can have a voice representing us that will promote and ensure the special cultural interchange of ideas, art and entertainment that we currently have between Japan.

Fernando Gonzalez Jr.
Houston, TX
fernandogonzalez [at] mac.com
mk2000
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JHawkNH



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 42
Location: Minnesota
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:49 am Reply with quote
Kazuki-san wrote:
angel_lover wrote:

The sky may not be falling yet, but as the late Justice William O. Douglas warned, don't you think it's getting a little dark in here?

Perhaps. But what people fail to realize is this will go on until the balance of power shifts in our government, as it inevitably does and will. Then the laws will be revised to the point where they really have no teeth. Eventually the power will shift back the other way, and the same process will start all over again.


I have to agree with Kazuki-san on his point. Law is about balancing the right of people against the need to protect people. Sometimes the law goes to far one way, or not far enough. But in the end the law usually stays somewhere in the middle.

Those who claim that any law that could be precived as too strict will lead a Police State are as bad as the one who claim that every one who veiws pornography will turn into a rapist or molester. Both are taking the most extream possiblity and stating it as if it was a fact that it will happen.

I do not claim to be an expert in this, but to my knowledge of these type of cases is that the probation states that the convicted will not access any pornographic material. So even if he had a Playboy hidden under his desk, he still would have been charged with a violation of his probation. Even though it is perfectly legal for anyone else over 18 to own one. It didn't mather that it was underage drawings, it was pornographic drawnings.
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fxg97873



Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 211
Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:22 pm Reply with quote
JHawkNH wrote:
Kazuki-san wrote:
angel_lover wrote:

The sky may not be falling yet, but as the late Justice William O. Douglas warned, don't you think it's getting a little dark in here?

Perhaps. But what people fail to realize is this will go on until the balance of power shifts in our government, as it inevitably does and will. Then the laws will be revised to the point where they really have no teeth. Eventually the power will shift back the other way, and the same process will start all over again.


I have to agree with Kazuki-san on his point. Law is about balancing the right of people against the need to protect people. Sometimes the law goes to far one way, or not far enough. But in the end the law usually stays somewhere in the middle.

Those who claim that any law that could be precived as too strict will lead a Police State are as bad as the one who claim that every one who veiws pornography will turn into a rapist or molester. Both are taking the most extream possiblity and stating it as if it was a fact that it will happen.


True. I admit a bit of fear mongering on my part but it was mostly a violent reaction to the idea that my precious Japanese entertainment medium might be at risk (that and I don't want to feel like a criminal everytime I turn on cute but somewhat questionable series from CLAMP like Chobits and Cardcaptor Sakura)

Quote:

I do not claim to be an expert in this, but to my knowledge of these type of cases is that the probation states that the convicted will not access any pornographic material. So even if he had a Playboy hidden under his desk, he still would have been charged with a violation of his probation. Even though it is perfectly legal for anyone else over 18 to own one. It didn't mather that it was underage drawings, it was pornographic drawnings.


Yes, this is very true but I still think it's a good idea for fans and anime companies to at least create Washington watch groups to keep an eye on the use of current laws and the creation of new ones. Most businesses and special interest groups do this and I'm pretty sure we should too.

Fernando Gonzalez Jr.
mk2000
fernandogonzalez [at] mac.com


Last edited by fxg97873 on Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ryuujin00



Joined: 03 Dec 2005
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:12 pm Reply with quote
Here's the original article that the news blurb came from, it shows 1. this guy is an absolute moron 2. the news writer was going for the shock factor and got it by leaving out some pretty important details.
=====

A 53-year-old Richmond man yesterday became the first person convicted under a 2003 federal statute that makes obscene cartoon drawings as well as photographs an illegal form of child pornography.

Dwight Whorley could be sentenced to more than 1,000 years in prison because a jury found him guilty of 74 counts of child pornography charges in U.S. District Court. Those counts include the obscene cartoons and charges of sending and receiving obscene e-mails describing sexual abuse of children.

Whorley used a computer at a Virginia Employment Commission office in Richmond on March 30, 2004, to view obscene Japanese anime cartoons that depict female children being forced into sexual intercourse with adult males.

The new statute is "designed to increase protection against the sexual exploitation of minors," the U.S. attorney's office said. It makes it a federal crime to produce, distribute, receive or possess for distribution "obscene drawings, cartoons, sculptures, paintings or any other obscene visual representation of the sexual abuse of children."

Whorley was under court-supervised release after serving time on previous child pornography convictions when he was charged under the current indictment. Authorities said he was arrested in April 2004 after he printed out some of the obscene cartoons in the VEC office and someone noticed.

The indictment accused Whorley of 20 counts of receiving obscene materials, 20 counts of receiving obscene visual representations of sexual abuse of children, 14 counts of receiving child pornography and 20 counts of sending and receiving obscene e-mails describing sexual abuse of children.

Whorley's maximum possible sentence is 1,160 years in prison and a fine of $18.5 million. Judge Henry E. Hudson scheduled sentencing for March 10.

Besides viewing the cartoons on March 30, Whorley used a VEC computer on two earlier dates in March 2004 to receive digital photographs of children engaging in sexually explicit conduct, the U.S. attorney's office said. The 20 obscene e-mail messages described, among other things, parents sexually molesting their children.

Whorley's previous conviction on federal child-pornography charges was in 1999. He was sentenced to 46 months in prison to be followed by three years of court-supervised probation.

In January 2003, he had served his sentence and was on supervised release when he violated the terms of his probation and was taken back into custody, according to the U.S. attorney's office.

He was sentenced to an additional 12 months to serve and was released in January 2004. Whorley again violated probation and was arrested in April 2004, which led authorities to the current prosecution.

Whorley was prosecuted by Assistant U.S. Attorney Sara E. Flannery and Damon A. King, a trial attorney with the U.S. Department of Justice's Child Exploitation and Obscenity Section. The case was investigated by the FBI and the justice department.

"With this conviction, we have removed a dangerous repeat sex offender from the community for a long time," said Paul J. McNulty, acting deputy attorney general as well as U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia.

Assistant Attorney General Alice S. Fisher of the criminal division in the U.S. Department of Justice called Whorley "a relentless trafficker of child pornography."

She said the justice department "will continue to protect citizens from obscene pictures of child pornography by punishing those who violate our law and engage in these abhorrent offenses."
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Kazuki-san



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2251
Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:59 pm Reply with quote
fxg97873 wrote:

Who there in Washington is looking out for our interest and investments?


Truthfully? Nobody. That went out the window a long long time ago. What gets promoted and put into law is what the base majority wants and/or what rich, powerful companies (i.e. those who line lawmakers wallets) want done. That's why it generally matters not what someone promises to do before they are elected, as they will (usually) do what is most popular at the time (as far as getting them re-elected goes).

fxg97873 wrote:
The anime, manga and doujinshi demographic tends to already be at a disadvantage due its general age group (the lack of voting kind).


Even those above voting age, when taken in the context of them being a group with similar views (which they aren't necessarily), they are still irrelevant on the national level as a voting block.

fxg97873 wrote:
Anime and Manga companies have millions of dollars at stake with their current and past properties. The Japanese companies should also be engaged as they rely on licensing fees and sales from the U.S. to continue their industry.

Once again, as a subsect of companies they lack the pull necessary to inact change.
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Fallcon



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 13
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:29 pm Reply with quote
no one is really geting this.

I'm trying to freaking say is.

Well owning manga or anime with any kinda of underaged nudity get you charged. Because i'm sure it would bring down more than half of the manga and anime companys.

Because alot of the big companys have some with nudity in them. So ask yourself next time you are buying some manga or anime, what many have nudity or not.

"Are people who see me reading this, going to think i'm a kitty porn watcher?"

What is not true, but even still. More cases like this kind could happen to just anyone who buys manga or anime what have under age nudity, because we will be seen as like this person. And i know if it goes that far, alot more people will be serving time in jail.
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Kazuki-san



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2251
Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:59 pm Reply with quote
Fallcon wrote:

Well owning manga or anime with any kinda of underaged nudity get you charged. Because i'm sure it would bring down more than half of the manga and anime companys.


No, like I've already said. I really don't feel like breaking the law down section-by-section at the moment, but the first qualifier to being charged is that you must "knowingly" purchase/receive the material. Just randomly going to the store and buying it without being aware of that type of content does not count. (Which is one of the reasons this law was used on a person with a previous child porn conviction, it's easier to assert that he was knowingly downloading material depicting underage sex acts) Second, it says nothing about nudity. So, a naked image of Rei does not fall under this law. Ever. It only involves depiction of sexual acts. The second qualifier, which also must be met is that it must be found obscene, using the Miller test described above. Or if it involves Sub-Sec. a Sub-Sub-Sec 2, it must fail the SLAPS test.

If you were for some horrible reason to fall victim to Sub-Sec b, which has the same requirments as Sub-Sec a, you have more then one way to wiggle your way out of it.

Title 18, Chapter 71, Section 1466a, Sub-Section e wrote:

(e) Affirmative Defense.— It shall be an affirmative defense to a charge of violating subsection (b) that the defendant—
(1) possessed less than 3 such visual depictions; and
(2) promptly and in good faith, and without retaining or allowing any person, other than a law enforcement agency, to access any such visual depiction—
(A) took reasonable steps to destroy each such visual depiction; or
(B) reported the matter to a law enforcement agency and afforded that agency access to each such visual depiction.


For anyone who is not aware, an affirmative defense is one that, if credible, bars criminal or civil liability from being applicable to the defendant. In other words, the defendant can't be convicted of whatever charge the affirmative defense is applicable to.
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fxg97873



Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 211
Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:36 am Reply with quote
Well, for those of you interested, I am trying to create a name for this Special Anime Interest Group. I have put down a list of possible candidate names but I welcome any suggestions. It is in the Anime section of the forums.

Fernando Gonzalez Jr.
Houston, TX
mk2000
fernandogonzalez [at] mac.com
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fxg97873



Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 211
Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 2:59 am Reply with quote
Well, rather than rely on the subjectiveness and rehash of the media, below is the official U.S Department of Justice release of the conviction:
http://www.usdoj.gov:80/usao/vae/ArchivePress/DecemberPDFArchive/05/20051201WhorleyNP.pdf

Anyhow, everybody burn your copy of Kite Special Edition (uncut)...

------------
Fernando Gonzalez Jr.
Houston, TX
mk2000
fernandogonzalez [at] mac.com
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fansubs



Joined: 28 Nov 2005
Posts: 21
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:36 am Reply with quote
So if you look at something bad you go to prison more then some one who actually does the deed (in this case child porn)

Typical American thinking.the countries is full of narrow minded morons
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remember love



Joined: 24 Sep 2005
Posts: 764
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:38 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Typical American thinking.the countries is full of narrow minded morons

I resent that.

Quote:
So if you look at something bad you go to prison more then some one who actually does the deed (in this case child porn)
And no I'm pretty sure they don't. The guy here has over 70 charges which adds up penalty time for prison. If he had over 70 charges for the actualy abuse of children he would have a lot longer sentence.
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