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Revision to Fansubber Ethical Code?


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Ghost



Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 26
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2003 4:45 am Reply with quote
shintopriestess wrote:
Actually I'm not trying to flame but post an alternate thought to what appears one sided discussion.

All this thread even appears to say or do is again have people make their thoughts be rules for fansubbers. The thing is fansubbers have better things to do than follow this thread. To be frank I'm only posting back remarks to this because its very funny that these fansub related threads are still continuing here.

Other sites that posted the AJ thread that was started here dropped it about two days before it was locked an ANN is still carrying on with it and this thread seems to only really have about 5 people stating one side of the coin.

Others are just growing bored having their opinions which the 'people for ethical revisions to fansubbers' smash or debate to a point no one wishs to continue talking about.

It's really a simple thing to state.

If you dont fansub, you really have no right to come and tell others how to do what they do. Its like a wood worker telling a metal smith what he thinks the metal smith can do to make his job better. He lacks understanding or experience. As far as translating manga on the internet ( i know someone will touch this ), well anyone can invest a few hours a day, get some japanese and kanji dictionaries and do it too and stop when they dont like how others use their work.


I agree. First of all, the fact is they're anime reviewers who wrote an article on how fansubs ethics should be and who are pro-industry, therefore narrow-minded. Secondly, failing to comprehend why fansubbers are upset is indeed the root of the problem. Lastly, lacking experience in fansubbing makes their credibility not withstanding.

When I read comments such as this one from like "The fansub community (which must truly be ghetto in the least accurate and savory sense) currently more or less functions on an unwritten constitution of sorts". It only reinforces fansubbers' comments on the rampant ignorancy or should I say in this case, stupidity some folks have when they don't bother to even try to understand both sides. They just accept what others say as the gospel truth.

They can say as much as they want, just thank them for the free fansub plugs.

-Ghost-
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shintopriestess



Joined: 11 Jun 2003
Posts: 26
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2003 9:46 am Reply with quote
Laughing


Scary when simple logic of "Talk what you know" is applied.

Twisted Evil Can I be devils advocate??? Twisted Evil

Arrow Ghost is the real Ghost in the Machine Question
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jmays
ANN Associate Editor


Joined: 29 Jul 2002
Posts: 1390
Location: St. Louis, MO
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2003 10:04 am Reply with quote
Ghost wrote:
I agree. First of all, the fact is they're anime reviewers who wrote an article on how fansubs ethics should be and who are pro-industry, therefore narrow-minded. Secondly, failing to comprehend why fansubbers are upset is indeed the root of the problem. Lastly, lacking experience in fansubbing makes their credibility not withstanding.

When I read comments such as this one from like "The fansub community (which must truly be ghetto in the least accurate and savory sense) currently more or less functions on an unwritten constitution of sorts". It only reinforces fansubbers' comments on the rampant ignorancy or should I say in this case, stupidity some folks have when they don't bother to even try to understand both sides. They just accept what others say as the gospel truth.

They can say as much as they want, just thank them for the free fansub plugs.

Let's see. You've attacked a few people's competence and disregarded others simply because they contribute to ANN. I'm still looking for something about the topic itself.

And let me make sure I get this right: if you support the industry in any way, you're narrow-minded. And if someone like you doesn't, that means you're open-minded. Hm.

Please, if you must continue talking about this, argue the topic. Respond to, say, Dan or Cookie's post with something more than, "This is just another example of stupid, ignorant, closed-minded ANN staff." The character or circumstances of any person has nothing to do with the validity of a given fansub ethics code.

And it's not very persuasive.
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Dan42
Chief Encyclopedist


Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 3619
Location: Montreal
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2003 11:00 am Reply with quote
shintopriestess, Ghost, please don't resort to personal attacks. It really *does* seem you want to start a flame war. As Miagi said, you're only caliing "ignorant" and "stupid" those who disagree with you. That's not intelligent debate.

I don't wish to continue talking about the price of subs/dubs, as this has nothing to do with the topic of fansub ethics. shintopriestess, since you don't know how the economy works and how economies of scale work, well there's nothing I can do about that. I only stated something that pretty much *everyone* knows. If you want to continue about sub/dub prices, start another thread.

shintopriestess wrote:
Actually I'm not trying to flame but post an alternate thought to what appears one sided discussion.
You are very one sided in your own arguments, and your "alternate thoughts" seem very contemptuous to me.

shintopriestess wrote:
All this thread even appears to say or do is again have people make their thoughts be rules for fansubbers.
Did you even READ what I wrote? I just specifically wrote that we don't want to force anyone to do anything. Are you doing this on purpose?

shintopriestess wrote:
Other sites that posted the AJ thread that was started here dropped it about two days before it was locked an ANN is still carrying on with it and this thread seems to only really have about 5 people stating one side of the coin.
Ok, so on one side you accuse us of continuing the AJ thread (which was dropped 4 days ago) and at the same time you accuse us of locking that thread for no good reason. What the hell do you want with us?

shintopriestess wrote:
If you dont fansub, you really have no right to come and tell others how to do what they do. Its like a wood worker telling a metal smith what he thinks the metal smith can do to make his job better. He lacks understanding or experience.
No, this situation is completely different. According to *your* arguments, a court of law would have no business condemning a thief since they don't have first-hand experience about thieving practices.

shintopriestess wrote:
As far as translating manga on the internet ( i know someone will touch this ), well anyone can invest a few hours a day, get some japanese and kanji dictionaries and do it too and stop when they dont like how others use their work.

Its still a matter of choice and saying you translate manga doesnt mean you know jack on fansubs.
Oh, so you're just going to dimiss those who produce fan translations of manga? They're not worthy of discussing fansub ethics? They're not good enough for you? Only people who have been directly involved in the production of fansubs are pure enough to discuss this? Sorry, but I find you pretty darn conceited, you know... Sorry about the "personal attack" but I really don't know how else to interpret your insulting comments.
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shintopriestess



Joined: 11 Jun 2003
Posts: 26
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2003 1:15 pm Reply with quote
Rolling Eyes

Well I nearly snorted my soda out reading this but if I was going to flame I would state it. As for economics, maybe your right I dont know. Right now I do sales for IT, worked software sales for another company, assisted comic dealers at cons selling books and products and working freelance in local comic stores. So with my history I guess your right I have no working knowledge on the supply and demand of the product.

Now lets add onto this I've been collecting comics since I was around 9 and I'm 28. I've been up to my *censor* in the comic industry selling, convincing people whats hot and whats not. So please dont assume what my intelligence on economics because Confused Well to address your other statement....

From Dan42:
"Ok, so on one side you accuse us of continuing the AJ thread (which was dropped 4 days ago) and at the same time you accuse us of locking that thread for no good reason. What the hell do you want with us?"

Now as far as continuing the threads lets see what was posted at the end of the two threads focusing on FANSUBBING which in each thread AJ somehow gets mentioned.

This topic should have died back on this remark:
"But, beyond this, it really is time to get on with things, I have no intention of letting the fansub discussion dominate this forum on any sort of long term basis."

But it didn't.. it jumped to the next available thread.

The last posting stating:
"This thread has gone pretty much the way of the AJ thread: some people don't care about the industry and some people do, and nobody's going to move from their entrenched beliefs. So I'm going to lock it.

If you want to continue discussing an alternate code of ethics, do it in this thread"

Now both you and Chris saw this. So did the posters and it should have been killed their. But it didn't it was pushed to another thread.

I mean its cool and all that an article posted by ANN has lead to such a wonderfull debate on BOTH YIN AND YANG trying to prove and justify their beliefs but its over... done.

As was posted prior to the original start of this mess:
"Fansub and sub/dub arguments are just the same as religious/political discussions. Nobody gives ground, nobody changes their mind, nobody says, "aha, you may be right, let me rethink my position". There's plenty of other places where people can dicsuss it, it doesn't need to infect each and every forum out there."

I mean Tempest see's it so does the other Chris. This debate which is all this is now really should have closed and everyone moved on.

As for me wanting anything from ANN I come here for the news articles thats really all this site gives me thats useful. As I put in previous postings ANN's news skills are top notch on getting info. But the article, the constant threads on the subject is a pandora's box which 'hope' of forcing or making fansubbers rethink their actions has already been stated constantly as GONE.

Now please chill out.

As far as me being one sided... BS.

I have said clearly many times I buy the US DVD's, toys as much as I can and when I can. So much that suncoast knows me by name and lets me do special reserves I buy alot of US anime dvd's and translated manga. Your jabs really are just that.. jabs and not really good ones because I walk the middle and support both but with limits that allow me to enjoy fansubs and also support the japanese culture in the US.

TTFN

Evil or Very Mad Twisted Evil Evil or Very Mad
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Ghost



Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 26
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2003 3:44 pm Reply with quote
Miagi wrote:


Let's see. You've attacked a few people's competence and disregarded others simply because they contribute to ANN. I'm still looking for something about the topic itself.

And let me make sure I get this right: if you support the industry in any way, you're narrow-minded. And if someone like you doesn't, that means you're open-minded. Hm.

Please, if you must continue talking about this, argue the topic. Respond to, say, Dan or Cookie's post with something more than, "This is just another example of stupid, ignorant, closed-minded ANN staff." The character or circumstances of any person has nothing to do with the validity of a given fansub ethics code.

And it's not very persuasive.


Excuse me, again, when you right an article based on no experience whatsoever, people are going to question you. It's up to you on how you respond. It's your ANN staff who, when questioned, are the ones who are hostile. I admit debates can be heated and I like to engage them, but when responses include: "Grow up" and "LMAO" ...Not only to me, and others who have mentioned it on other forums.

Hmm... this a perfect example of not getting it. We are well aware that sites such as AoD, AI and ANN are pro-industry, and no one here is questioning or debating that. What were questioning is because they're pro-industry how can they write article on a topic when they have very little to no experience. This is where the narrow-mindedness comes in. Moreover, because of the naivete and ego, by writing a follow-up article, will bring more hostility and bring more interest to fansubs and which is the case here now.


"It only reinforces fansubbers' comments on the rampant ignorancy or should I say in this case, stupidity some folks have when they don't bother to even try to understand both sides". That's what I said. ...Get the facts straight before you respond and don't put words into peoples' mouth. I just quoted the statement "The fansub community (which must truly be ghetto in the least accurate and savory sense) currently more or less functions on an unwritten constitution of sorts". This was from the very first page in this thread from one of the posters. To me, as I said was ignorant and flamming. If I wanted to respond to any ANN staff member as I'm responding to you, I'll just do it.


-Ghost-


Last edited by Ghost on Mon Jun 16, 2003 3:57 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Ghost



Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 26
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2003 3:49 pm Reply with quote
Dan42 wrote:
shintopriestess, Ghost, please don't resort to personal attacks. It really *does* seem you want to start a flame war. As Miagi said, you're only caliing "ignorant" and "stupid" those who disagree with you. That's not intelligent debate.


I've already answered this. I suggest you tell the ANN staff members to read carefully before they respond.

Thank you.
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Tempest
ANN Publisher & CEO


Joined: 29 Dec 2001
Posts: 9534
Location: Do not message me for support.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2003 4:26 pm Reply with quote
Enough.
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