Forum - View topicFreezing (TV) (both seasons).
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23749 |
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Yes, it is. Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it's not there. Again, the whole thing of a younger brother having that sort of control over an older sister kind of seems like bullshit. "She was the daughter of a mistress and therefore Luis could get away with it" is an anime rationale but it doesn't really hold water. Yeah, the whole thing is stupidly contrived but I guess it's pointless to argue that with someone who isn't capable of seeing that.
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FenixFiesta
Posts: 2581 |
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That is the real issue, this IS a series about big titty girls that fight monsters, it never had a place to try to tackle a serious issue like molestation in the first place. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23749 |
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I don't totally disagree. Based on what they've done with it, I would have been happier if they simply hadn't bothered at all. However, there are times when shows like Freezing can use something like this to good effect, but this wasn't one of those times.
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18175 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Blood-, plenty of groundwork for these kind of reactions by Satellizer was laid in the first series. As tough as nails as she is in a fight, she has always been portrayed as weak and vulnerable when it comes to interacting with others on a personal level.
And why is it BS that Louis could be the controller just because he's the same age or younger? Families where teenagers or even younger children hold sway over adult parents in the family power structure are hardly an unknown phenomenon, and I'm sure that you could dig up accounts of people being victimized by like-aged or younger siblings or cousins if one went looking for them. (I'm very sure that I have seen news accounts to that effect over the years.) Hence I find it entirely credible that Louis could pull it off, especially if he had something like family status to sink his hooks deeply into her in the beginning. Like FenixFiesta said, this series may have its issues, but the credibility of this part of the storyline is not one of them. |
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TarsTarkas
 Posts: 5823 Location: Virginia, United States |
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I was walking in the Ellipse in D.C., going to work when I saw a young boy gut punch his father in broad daylight. You had mom, dad, and son there. The family reacted like this was nothing. I got a D.C. park ranger to investigate and continued on to work.
This was no sissy punch. The father doubled up, and fell to the ground. The adults were in there 30's. So I can believe that the young can terrorize their own family. The father and mother didn't even rebuke their son, sort of reacted like this was the normal state of affairs. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23749 |
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So apparently, whatever happened to Satelli as a young girl trumps anything that has happened to her as a young woman. She's a warrior, but yeah, that doesn't matter at all. After all, she's a female, right? So a female, if she's been victimized in her youth, will INSTANTLY revert back to victimhood regardless of what empowerment she may have experienced after childhood. Yes, it would be BIZARRE if she carried any of her warrior experiences with her, right? Wow, that's just totally unthinkable. And it's not like the show REVELLED in detailing her humiliation, right? Oh not at all. Her nude scenes where Luis was groping her weren't meant to be salacious. Not one little bit. After all, the material was so well-written and thoughtfully handled that no one could possibly get any whiff of squicky, manipulative, button-pushing horseshit. eta: I've left my somewhat peeved tone in, but I did smooth out some of the rougher edges of my original post to try and be less snotty. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18175 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Why do you find it so utterly beyond belief that she could still be deeply traumatized by those experiences even though she's become a warrior? Clearly she has never comes to terms with them, and clearly the tough exterior she molded was to shield her from any similar potential circumstances. Besides, even the most battle-hardened warrior can still show signs of PTSD even years later. (And I think you could classify the flashbacks of a molestation victim as a form of PTSD.) I had a teacher in high school who was a Vietnam vet who supposedly would still dive for cover if he heard a car backfire even though he'd been out of the service for more than a decade. He clearly never got over it, so why is it such a big deal to you that Satellizer hasn't gotten over her hang-ups?
Yes, the episode did do that, but so what? Distasteful writing doesn't necessarily mean bad writing. Besides, it has nothing to do with the credibility of Satellizer's reactions. |
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MrTerrorist
Posts: 1348 |
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So they did show "that" storyline.
spoiler[Despite how uncomfortable watching this episode, i'm kinda glad they kept this story in the anime. Kudos for making the audience understand why Satellizer is traumatized about Louis. While some might be put off with the abuse Louis was doing to Satellizer, at least it wasn't like the Cross Make Doujins. (Shudders with dread thinking about them)] |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23749 |
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We already know, from the first season, that part of Satelli's trauma is that if any male touches her, she instinctively lashes out and injures that person quite badly. I find that a credible reaction to her victimization. We know that one of the ways the bond between Kazuya and Satelli is established is that he does not trigger this automatic "fight" response. Okay, fair enough.
The show completely ignores this aspect and asks us to accept that neither her automatic fight response will be triggered nor has her experience as a warrior fighting people/creatures that are several magnitudes stronger than Luis have any bearing. Just instant reversion. Setting aside whether or not that is "realistic" in real life, it doesn't make sense within the context of this series, in my opinion. To me, the "reason" Satelli reverts to a puppet is that the show wanted to ladle on the humiliation/degradation of her so that we, the audience, will hate Luis even more than we did before. Clearly, his just desserts are coming. Personally, I think they overdid that aspect. Certainly they pushed me to the point where I was more disgusted with them the writers than I was with Luis the character (because it was just too ridiculous for me to take him seriously). For me, when that happens, I know I am not in the presence of good writing. |
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FenixFiesta
Posts: 2581 |
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With regards to the anime adaptation, Luis made it very clear that if Satellizer didn't comply with his harassment, that the El Bridget family would definitely NOT be helping out with the E Pandora situation.
spoiler[Even with Satellizer's "compliance" she effectively said "you can use my body, but you can never have my soul" which struck Luis in a manner that made him storm out of the room.] |
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jl07045
 Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
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The reason why Satella reverts so quickly is because her overcompensation can't do shit against the original abuser since she hasn't faced her trauma. It doesn't matter that she has more power than Louis now, seeing him triggers a regression into that small, abused, helpless child. Sure anime likes overkill, but the theory is correct, so don't confuse execution of the concept with the validity of it. Since the theory works it makes sense in the context of the show, because the show hasn't given us a reason to believe that human psychology works different in that universe. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23749 |
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So you're an expert are you, jl07045? You have enough empirical knowledge at your finger tips that a battle-hardened soldier will revert to a child-like victimized semi-catatonic state instantly? Well, not much I can say if there are people who actually find that scenario credible. And even if you do find it credible, it still doesn't address my issue of how I feel that concept was badly executed. Anyone who can watch that episode and go, "yep, that was good writing!" Yeah, that kind of blows me away, I can't lie.
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jl07045
Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
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Your issue has been addressed by three different people already and both Key and I made distinctions between the psychology involved and how it was executed in the story. As to my expert status I can' t be bothered to look it up, because I'm talking from personal experience. If you're really interested about this, you can find info about how trauma triggers and 4F response in abuse victims work instead of being blown away. Last edited by jl07045 on Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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FenixFiesta
Posts: 2581 |
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@Blood, I believe everyone reading the thread understands that you are annoyed that the situation is "being played for drama", however the pretext for this situation was set up in Season 1 with shades about Satellizer having a traumatic past, with an effort specifically tailored so that the reader sympathizes for her, so as far as the series is concerned being emotionally manipulative is NOT a new concept by any means.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23749 |
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Oh, I agree with you FenixFiesta, that crude emotional manipulation (i.e. bad writing) is nothing new for the Freezing franchise. I never claimed it was. This line of discussion basically stems from Key asking me to explain why I found the last episode to be an example of bad writing.
Anyway, I've already repeated myself enough, so I won't be adding anything else on that topic unless there is a fresh aspect to it that happens to come up. |
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