Forum - View topicNEWS: Article on Anime Bootlegs
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Pyoko
Posts: 56 |
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That seems kind of unnecessary, as if I recall correctly, uncut, subbed, boxsets of Naruto were announced at the same time as the dubbed, cut DVDs. Would you really want to pay twice (and once to someone who didn't deserve it) just to get the episodes a couple of months earlier? Anyway, this might not apply to you specifically, but the problem with this reasoning regarding bootlegs (and fansubs) is that you can say "I'll get it when the legit DVDs are released anyway" and believe it yourself, but when that time actually comes I think it's very easy to slip into the "I've already seen it"/"I don't really feel like paying for it again" mentality. It has happened to me a couple of times, (the former of course, I would never touch a bootleg) and that's why I try to only sample shows that I think have a decent chance of getting licensed. |
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beelzebozo
 Posts: 308 Location: Aurora, Colorado |
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There is no good reason to buy HK DVDs. None. Nada. Zip. The three bad reasons are: 1) You are cheap: For some reason you think that what you want to pay trumps the ability for American companies to pay for the rights, production and manufacturing of the American versions, as well as earn a living. 2) You are lazy You either don't want to take the time to learn Japanese, or you don't want to do the extra work to earn money to pay for all of the legitimate versions you want. 3) You are selfish 'Cause it's all about you. Your anime, your way. Nevermind the ability of the studios to create more. Nevermind being willing to give up something to be able to afford your all the anime you want. Never even bother to consider just buying what you really want, not everything you sort-of like. And you got to have it now, not in 6 months when the licensed version arrives. I'm going to exlude downloads for the reason that it opens up a whole other can of worms. But at least when you download, someone is not earning money off the stolen goods. [EDIT] Sorry, that was a little gruff. I just had a bad customer experience and I'm a little peeved 
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cyphr99
 Posts: 1 Location: Denver, CO, USA |
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Personally, I think it is cool that Westword even did this article. I'm not too sure if it is really going to open any eyes in its readership though…
I do think the article may help out Roger's store some by letting people know that his shop is there. Is seems that casual anime viewer doesn’t know that either of the legit anime shops in the Denver area exist. I think the problem with bootlegs doesn't end with the shops that deal with them directly. I have gone into many a Gamestop or EB Games and see anime bootlegs outnumbering the legit stuff by something like 3 to 1. I think that not only the customer, but the naïve reseller needs to be educated about what they are buying/selling… |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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That's naive. The fans say "oh I didn't know I was buying bootlegs". Really there's a number for whom that is true (and for MOST fo them, it's because they don't question) and there's a SIGNIFICANT number who really don't care. Granted, there's a small number being "ripped off" by boots sold as legit. (by that I mean a boot sold at same price in same quantity as legit) But I think most people see: Vendor A: Anime DVD, vol 1 = $25 Vendor B: Anime DVD, whole series = $20 And just say, hey, what all you got Vendor B? Or do you think all those people who download straight rips of American DVDs have no idea what they're grabbing? I have questions about the marketting of anime in the US, mainly whether its sustainable to build a market based around main stream selling of what is REALLY a "niche" product. (honestly, you're selling DVDs of seasons of a tv show, how many people buy those sorts of things for US shows? really the number is pretty good I'm sure, but it's nowhere NEAR the number that will watch it once for free on TV, if you WERE able to completely cut fansubs I'm curious how it would affect sales, I could see them staying relatively flat based on the lack of promotion being offset by increased buys, but I dunno) Anyway, point being there are LOTS of people that just look for the best "deal". How many people still buy Nikes even after being told 5 yr olds in China are dying in sweatshops to make their shoes? How many people still shop Walmart even though they're destroying the family business? Tell everyone they're buying bootlegs, they'll nods sagely, commiserate about how that evil vendor is destroying the industry, and then when you're not looking they'll go buy the next set. There are some fans that want to be holier than thou enough that they'll seek out the legits explicitly. There's a few more that are so dedicated to a specific title/creator/studio that they'll buy legits for that, and then there are a bunch that'll just grab whatever is closest/easiest, if it's the legits, cool, if not *shrug*. But a fair number of people are just giving lip service when they talk about how "yeah, those bootleggers suck". |
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gundamfan80
 Posts: 28 Location: Michigan |
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I think people who buy bootlegs deserve the worst ass cancer an angry god can give them
 . if you want cheap anime it only takes a little research, I get all of mine from www.dvdpacific.com , legit dvds at insanly low prices (I promise all are legit I buy from them all the time and never got one that wasn't). so screw the damn bootleggers and suport the creators so they can keep bringing us great anime!
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hikaru004
 Posts: 2306 |
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I have to agree with HeeroTX. There are alot of people that are going for the cheapest way to see a series, be it fansubs or bootlegs. They really don't care about giving money to organized crime, running legit businesses out of business, hurting the anime industry etc.
This article may have just given Henderson free publicity and more clients. |
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beelzebozo
Posts: 308 Location: Aurora, Colorado |
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Well, it was a chance we had to take if it eventually leds to him going out of business, either by the government being embarassed into finally doing something or by other pressures. And also, there is a difference between illegal and immoral. Shopping at Walmart or buying Nike shoes may not be morally sound, but they are not illegal. Buying pirated software or bootlegged anime is not just immoral, but are also illegal. |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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It's also illegal in most states for kids to buy liquor and cigarettes, and yet they do THAT every day too. And much like buying bootlegs, they'll tell whoever that THEY'RE not the ones doing that and then go out on the weekend and do exactly that. I'm not saying it's the RIGHT thing to do, but when people use "it's too expensive" as a reason why they're entitled to "free" fansubs instead of buying the official release, I don't think "it's illegal" is going deter them from buying cheap bootlegs. Or maybe it'll just convince them to pay more focus to the fansubs again. *shrug*
If you see an improvement in business over this, congrats, I hope less people DO go out and buy bootlegs, I'm just being realistic based on what I've seen. Again, I'm not saying it's GOOD or RIGHT, I'm just disputing people saying that bootlegs are only being bought because vendors like that guy are totally fooling the buyers. |
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GSAttack
 Posts: 20 |
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I've read most of the posts on this topic and have some comments to make about it:
As for the last line of that article, bootlegging is not going to lower the price of the licensed DVD's. A Japanese DVD containing 2 episodes (region 2, no subtitles) can cost $35US easily. The U.S. companies put 3 to 4 episodes on the DVD and you can usually buy it for around $19.99 at time of release. The only thing U.S. companies might be able to do to help us fans out is offer the season boxsets up front. I agree with the try before you buy so you don't spend money on a series you don't much care for but that is what rental companies are for...I belong to one. Bootlegs are not the answer for this either. I have never had a problem with fansubbing because true subbers follow the undocumented code which is to cease the fansubbing once the series has been licensed. However, bootlegs continue even after the U.S. release of the DVD's and are just pure garbage. Even if they are cheaper to buy they are still a total waste of money. The real problem is there are not enough networks that show anime to satisfy the demand for it. Regarding the U.S. release of series like Naruto, I agree. It irritates me that U.S. companies edit shows for broadcast to a younger audience and then release DVD's with the same edited episodes and only an English audio track. That alone is going to sway older anime fans towards bootlegs which have unedited episodes on them. They should consider offering unedited DVD's simultaneously with the edited ones (much like the movie companies are now doing with theatrical vs unrated movie DVD's). To the post about InuYasha on CN, VIZ has been releasing 2 volumes every other month for more than a year now and the airing of the episodes on Adult Swim has nothing to do with the release dates of the DVD's. |
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anime_man01
 Posts: 15 Location: the other side of the asylum on the hill.. |
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i did that post... i was actually referring to c/n airing it at their leasure and us having to wait till its aired before the dvd is released... typically its the other way around... "media"[series, movie, etc..] released on dvd, then aired on tv if the ratings are there... not,"lets show some eps here, some eps there, oh lets move around the schedule some here, ah, weve done enough for now so we can let out the dvds..." b/s if you ask me.... drawing out something like that will deter people and turn them off to long series.. i believe in my policy.. watch it some.....watch the rest...(series) not just half way through and can it, but due to "filler" eps in inuyasha, its easy to loose intrest and give up... i have a few friends that actually gave up on the series because of the delays and have said that they might get it when its all released... oh well... i just stand by the idea that if youre a networkand theres a series on dvd thats popular, you air it... not the other way around.... the fans will still watch... |
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6867 Location: Kazune City |
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Naruto -will- be released in dual audio, maybe starting in the summer. And, it's not fair to complain about "craptacular" subs from R1 companies in general. when it's mainly 4kids releasing those kinds of discs.
I confess, I've bought bootlegs in the past...the first few I bought unknowingly, after stumbling across a site while searching for the second season of Full Metal Panic! (spring 2004). Since then, I decided to be a cheapsakte and knowingly bought a few more, including some from the online version of the shop mentioned in the article. However, I can proudly say that I haven't bought any bootlegs in over a year--over time, I've given away those bootlegs or sold them at a loss, and have bought or am in the process of buying the legit versions, even those expensive Fushigi Yuugi box sets. (Now, if they would only re-release Ai yori aoshi + Enishi in a thinpack or something...) I've said this before on posts like this: if you absolutely must have anime for free, then download fansubs, download DVD rips, download anything, but don't give money to Chinese / SE Asian pirates or guys like this Henderson character. I've heard that the new tendency on non DVD rip bootlegs is to take fansubs and re-author them to DVD, thus avoiding Engrish subtitles. So why pay for something that you can download for (close to) free? Plus, I don't think there's really a cost excuse for buying bootlegs--prices on average DVDs have gone down, and there are so many thinpacks & box sets out there that you can get anime quite cheaply in the US. Heck, I own sets of Angelic Layer, Pretear, Final Fantasy Unlimited, Shrine of the Morning Mist, Now and Then, Seraphim Call, Sentimental Journey, Here and There, and Kinou's Journey that had prices comparable to or even less than bootleg prices. If you're short on cash, all you need to do is to hold back on the $35 per DVD ultra-hot new series that comes with the special boxes/T-shirts/figures/pencil boards, and buy shorter, older series instead. Or just stick to downloading. Either way, I don't see any excuse to buy bootlegs. |
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GSAttack
Posts: 20 |
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A good example of the danger in skimming through the posts. I misread your original post and thought that you meant CN was holding up the DVD release with their breaks in the series. I can agree with you that the series is difficult to follow on Adult Swim the way they keep breaking it up. Missing episodes makes it even more difficult since they are not available on DVD yet. I really don't think AS was prepared to air such a long running series. They do much better with the ones that are 52 episodes or less. |
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beast
 Posts: 102 Location: High Ground |
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What about HK Bootlegs of series that haven't and won't ever see an American release and can't be downloaded from the Internet?
I'm perfectly ok with buying bootlegs of those. |
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GSAttack
Posts: 20 |
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My intent was not to target all U.S. companies in general. I know 4Kids is the primary company responsible for obtaining licenses to series and then editing them for broadcast to an age group of 7-10. Most of my DVD's have come from VIZ Media and Funimation who have also worked on those 4Kids projects and released the DVD's for them. What I was really complaining about is that edited and unedited versions of the DVD are not made available at the same time. Bandai apparently gets this as a Toonami version and an unedited version of IGPX are both being released on the same day. However, while there is talk about unedited version coming eventually, shows like One Piece and Naruto are only going to be available in edited versions initially. So, what are the die-hard fans suppose to do? Wait for the unedited versions with Japanese audio to be released or turn to the bootleggers? |
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BuffaloStyle
 Posts: 274 Location: Colorado |
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I agree. There was a copy of the Westword on a table in our employee lounge at work today. I struck up a conversation with a couple of my employees about the problems with bootlegs and how they can actually hurt the industry. While my employees found out that their boss is a geek, they also found out that there are a couple of places to buy anime in town due to the article.
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