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INTEREST: Space Pirate Captain Harlock Joins Japan in Anti-Piracy Campaign


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CrowLia



Joined: 24 Feb 2012
Posts: 5324
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:01 am Reply with quote
Putting it into pretty words doesn't make your argument more valid, nor does it magically makes more sense because of it. You can keep living in your idilic world where pirates are evil creatures of evil who steal creators' precious private rights, and this notion of yours that certain sectors of the world/population should not have access to art/culture/knowledge because some person decides so won't stop being ludicrous. If you want to protect the preciousness of your private creation, keep it under your bed, don't put it out there in the world.

Quote:
And companies like Nintendo and Sunrise have shown that they do have the right to prevent people from creating hentai doujinshi of their properties.


You obviously have never heard of rule 34.

Quote:
The chances of camrips are pretty low, so I doubt there's much worry there.


I don't doubt it to be so in Japan, but where I live you can get camripped DVD's the same day the movie is on cinemas -sometimes before, if they get the rips from other countries-. Of course, they're awful and you can hear people laughing in the background so anyone who knows how to buy pirated stuff will wait for the DVD/BD rip to be out Wink


Last edited by CrowLia on Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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mangamuscle



Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 2473
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:04 am Reply with quote
walw6pK4Alo wrote:
Piracy just seems like an inevitability, so you might as well create the best product you can to get people to physically come to the theater and/or want to own it on disc. The chances of camrips are pretty low, so I doubt there's much worry there.


Hear! Hear!

BTW, I once downloaded a camrip and it was godamn awful, the sound had echoes, sometimes people coming or going from their seats were seen, I see no reason whatsoever to waste time in one of those, better go to the theather (yes virgina, even I go to the cinema when a movie warrants it) or wait for the disc release (my nearest blockbuster is walking distance from home).

But sadly if these film flops they will no doubt try to blame some lousy camrip or worse, they will try to pin the blame into someone that uploaded the film and if it was so awful that nobody bought a disc to upload, they will upload it themselves and again if no one is interested in downloading it they will get some people overseas to download it so they can smuglly pin the blame on the "evil torrents users", the blame game is pretty hardcore in Japan and no one wants to shoulder any of the blame of a falied project, specialy if it cost a fortune.

On a side note, am I the only one with no interest whatsoever in live acion out of anime/manga? I thought it was about doing low cost crap (like the Ranma 1/2 TV special) but now I hear they threw millions into this thing? How many anime movies could they have done with all that money! Anime cry
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:12 am Reply with quote
CrowLia wrote:
Quote:
And companies like Nintendo and Sunrise have shown that they do have the right to prevent people from creating hentai doujinshi of their properties.


You obviously have never heard of rule 34.


Rumor is, Nintendo strongarmed an artist into not doing a second bestiality doujinshi of Pokemon. The doujinshi culture (porn or no) seems to be tolerated, but who knows how fragile it really is. It really copyright infringement in the truest sense, they're using copyrighted characters for financial gain.
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mangamuscle



Joined: 23 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:36 am Reply with quote
walw6pK4Alo wrote:
CrowLia wrote:
Quote:
And companies like Nintendo and Sunrise have shown that they do have the right to prevent people from creating hentai doujinshi of their properties.


You obviously have never heard of rule 34.


Rumor is, Nintendo strongarmed an artist into not doing a second bestiality doujinshi of Pokemon. The doujinshi culture (porn or no) seems to be tolerated, but who knows how fragile it really is. It really copyright infringement in the truest sense, they're using copyrighted characters for financial gain.


Unless it is a work of satire, it just happens that Japan does not recognize satire (something like MAD magazine would be illegal in japan) nor any kind of derivative work. I remember seeing a documentary about a guy that did a fanzine (for a lack or a better word) in the USA where mickey mouse has sex and he lost the trial only because he insisted to call the character Mickey Mouse, if he had changed the name the charges would have been dropped because satire is allowed in the USA. Going by the law ALL doujinshi created in japan which include light novel/manga/anime characters (99%?) are ILLEGAL, no ands, ifs or buts, but big companies rarely go against any of them (usually only if they start to make too much profit) because they recognize them as part of the fandom (and who sues and alienates their own customers, oh yeah, american companies).
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CrowLia



Joined: 24 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:43 am Reply with quote
walw6pK4Alo wrote:
CrowLia wrote:
Quote:
And companies like Nintendo and Sunrise have shown that they do have the right to prevent people from creating hentai doujinshi of their properties.


You obviously have never heard of rule 34.


Rumor is, Nintendo strongarmed an artist into not doing a second bestiality doujinshi of Pokemon. The doujinshi culture (porn or no) seems to be tolerated, but who knows how fragile it really is. It really copyright infringement in the truest sense, they're using copyrighted characters for financial gain.


I don't particularly know of Nintendo's case, but talking about Sunrise, I'm pretty certain there's a lot of doujinshi out there, if not openly sold, yes distributed. There's at least a pretty sizable fandom for LelouchxSuzaku and doujinshis to satisfy said fandom.
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 13777
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:49 am Reply with quote
CrowLia wrote:

I don't particularly know of Nintendo's case, but talking about Sunrise, I'm pretty certain there's a lot of doujinshi out there, if not openly sold, yes distributed. There's at least a pretty sizable fandom for LelouchxSuzaku and doujinshis to satisfy said fandom.


Likely much of those are technically illegal - just not enforced.
Like Japan has protection laws for women of the labor force in the books, just many not enforced, so companies get away with technically illegal but commonly accepted behavior.
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lostrune



Joined: 09 Jun 2012
Posts: 277
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:52 am Reply with quote
walw6pK4Alo wrote:
Rumor is, Nintendo strongarmed an artist into not doing a second bestiality doujinshi of Pokemon. The doujinshi culture (porn or no) seems to be tolerated, but who knows how fragile it really is. It really copyright infringement in the truest sense, they're using copyrighted characters for financial gain.


Still released it Laughing There's tons of PokeDoujins at every Comiket and doujin event. Probably just hogwash given the amount of stuff that still comes out, maybe he just couldn't meet the deadline and made up an excuse, if he even said that to begin with or it was just an assumption on the western fandom's part.
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Joe anime



Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 259
Location: Brooklyn,NY
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:59 pm Reply with quote
Fabe wrote:
Joe anime wrote:
Joe anime wrote:
Japan has done everything within their power to bring anime to every part of the world,what your're asking for,they've done.


Let me get this straight, in the place where you live you get most anime movies in theaters at most six months after their are released in japan? Do you get at your amazon all the anime series you can get at amazon.jp at the same price you pay for local TV series (with subs and dubs)? You can download the latest anime music titles (at a lower price) at yout itunes? You get anime video games released a few months after their release in japan?

If the answer is an absolute yes, please let me know where you live. If the answer is an absolute no, then japan has not done the same work they did to sell their cars and electronic products outside of japan, in layman terms, no, they have not done everything within their power to bring anime to every part of the world





https://www.daisuki.net/


Uhh is it just me or is Joe Anime replying to and arguing against his own post?[/quote]


I'm not looking for that kind of attention.
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Joe anime



Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 259
Location: Brooklyn,NY
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:10 pm Reply with quote
CrowLia wrote:
Daisuki may be a step forward, but not every series is available worldwide, their catalogue is limited and the problem with DVD/BD, mangas, music and movies does not seem like something they can solve. Also, their shows are English sub only, so it won't be of any use to people from non-English speaking areas who don't know English.


Hey,some countries don't allow anime,and as far as DVD/BD,mangas,movies and music,people can import them.for some,it'll be easy.others,not so much.at the end of day,Japan has done everything they can to bring anime world wide.
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CrowLia



Joined: 24 Feb 2012
Posts: 5324
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:11 pm Reply with quote
No they haven't. Doing everything possible would be pushing for their programs to be on international television, for the DVDs to be licensed and released in other countries so that people don't [expletive] have to import because importing is [expletive] expensieve, for the music to be sold in worldwide record stores and become available in iTunes or other legal media, for Japanese singers and artists giving concerts all around the world, for manga to be translated and licensed all over the world to be sold in bookstores, for their movies to be released on cinemas overseas -bet this one will never make it out of the island-.

It's no secret Japanese companies can be complete pricks when it comes to their precious licenses and their crippling fear of evil pirates, so much that neither Saint Seiya Omega nor Lost Canvas are available to Latin America on CR even if the franchises sells much better in this region than in the US. They have barely done the minimum effort to sell their stuff to Americans and a few lucky others, not even remotely "all they can do". The fact that Daisuki's motto is that they're the first try at giving anime a global outlook -and how badly it's doing it so far- should be testament of it.
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Kikaioh



Joined: 01 Jun 2009
Posts: 1203
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:41 pm Reply with quote
CrowLia wrote:
Putting it into pretty words doesn't make your argument more valid, nor does it magically makes more sense because of it. You can keep living in your idilic world where pirates are evil creatures of evil who steal creators' precious private rights, and this notion of yours that certain sectors of the world/population should not have access to art/culture/knowledge because some person decides so won't stop being ludicrous. If you want to protect the preciousness of your private creation, keep it under your bed, don't put it out there in the world.


Pretty words? Is that a nice way of saying you didn't understand what I said? Laughing And speaking of words, what's the deal with putting so many in my mouth? I never said or implied any of this "pirates are evil creatures of evil" nonsense, so please stop projecting your personal frustrations onto a non-existant strawman. Rolling Eyes

This isn't about sectors of the world being afforded access to art/culture/knowledge, which is an idealistic notion if ever I heard one (40% of the earth's population doesn't have indoor plumbing and only 30% has access to the Internet, and you're concerned about people not getting enough online entertainment? Really?) This conversation has everything to do with creators being able to have a sense of ownership in their creations, and protecting their right to decide the terms under which other people can enjoy their work. Artists have property rights in their creations just as much as you have ownership rights over a painting you create or a journal you write, and those rights ought to be respected.
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CrowLia



Joined: 24 Feb 2012
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Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:57 pm Reply with quote
I'll just roll my eyes at your ability to incesantly repeat yourself over and over. You laugh at my idealistic thought of people having access to culture/art/knowledge (which somehow you equated to online entertainment, I wonder who's the one that doesn't understand what others say?), but you keep rambling about this ridiculously naïve notion that people enforce copyright laws to protect some "right to decide the terms under which other people can enjoy their work" rather than the money they seem to believe they lose when people pirate their work
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Kikaioh



Joined: 01 Jun 2009
Posts: 1203
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:28 am Reply with quote
CrowLia wrote:
I'll just roll my eyes at your ability to incesantly repeat yourself over and over.


Roll your eyes once, and I'll roll mine twice. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes If you actually addressed the issue of author ownership, instead of completely ignoring it, the conversation would be going somewhere. Do you honestly think that when you paint a picture or write a book, you don't have a right to determine the terms under which other people get to read it and enjoy it? What degree of control do you think is fair to the author of a work, the person who may have spent a lifetime of effort, risk and sacrifice to create something you enjoy?

CrowLia wrote:
You laugh at my idealistic thought of people having access to culture/art/knowledge (which somehow you equated to online entertainment, I wonder who's the one that doesn't understand what others say?)


Well, now that you mention it...

Ahhahahaha! Laughing

...You can take that as a fullfillment of your imagined slights, or an honest-to-goodness chuckle. Wink And isn't the culture/art/knowledge we're talking about anime? And isn't anime entertainment... that's usually pirated online?


CrowLia wrote:
but you keep rambling about this ridiculously naïve notion that people enforce copyright laws to protect some "right to decide the terms under which other people can enjoy their work" rather than the money they seem to believe they lose when people pirate their work


The former is what artists usually care about. The latter plays a part in that, but all too-often becomes a strawman detracting from the heart of the issue.
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CrowLia



Joined: 24 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:07 am Reply with quote
Kikaioh wrote:
What degree of control do you think is fair to the author of a work, the person who may have spent a lifetime of effort, risk and sacrifice to create something you enjoy?


None. Hoping to have control of something you put out in the world is ludicrous. I go back to the Sunrise and Nintendo examples, no matter how hard they've tried to stop people from making doujinshi of their stuff, people still do it.

I'm going to change the discussion to the academic ground to make a better example, even if a little hyperbolic. Let's say A writes a science book in which he puts out his new amazing discovery about neurology. The book is published in Country A, and Country A alone because A doesn't want it to be distributed around the world, he wants to protect his precious private property whatever shit.

Let's say B reads A's book and decides his discoveries would greatly help the field of medicine all around the world. But, since A won't let anyone distribute his book outside of his country, B decides to upload it to the internet. Scientists and students all over the world get access to it and it helps improve the medical field and human life in general because whatever. A is insanely pissed because his private property has been violated, but the world is a better place now.

Basically no, I don't think authors have the right to arbitrarily decide or limit the distribution of their so-called private property. Knowledge should be available to anyone because you don't know who might take that "private" creation and come up with something new and different. It's the flow of knowledge and culture that make the world change the most, wanting to limit it out of some sense of "ownership and control" is essentially being an ass.

Quote:
And isn't the culture/art/knowledge we're talking about anime? And isn't anime entertainment... that's usually pirated online?


Oh but you were the one who insisted on discussing fundamentals. And the fundamentals are that people should have access to culture/art/knowledge, regardless of their nationality or social condition. Call it anime or call it science books.


Quote:
The former is what artists usually care about. The latter plays a part in that, but all too-often becomes a strawman detracting from the heart of the issue.


Seriously, they don't. My Italian highschool teacher once got into trouble for photocopying an Italian textbook and the author was about to sue the teacher because we should've bought it. He didn't care if we had it or not; he cared that we paid for it, period.

So of course, we photocopied a different book Laughing
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Shadowrun20XX



Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 1902
Location: Vegas
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:27 am Reply with quote
Padora's box was opened when the mass public found torrents.

There is nothing, not even the mighty Harlock can do but tell people not to Pirate.
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