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It might be just me, but i thought fanservice also implied things like nostalgia?

Anyway, I really don't see (even with the ranters point raised) how this fanservice is good. Honestly, even as a guy, anything with nudity always seems to be a desperite attempt to make the movie look better. I first watched Akira a few months back which, was already boring to begin with, then it just had to through in nudity, all I was thinking for the next 10 minutes was, "Did they really need that?" Not long after, I decided to hit stop because I couldn't care what would happen next.

Fanservice nudity really only lessens a shows integrity. There is nothing good about; the makers realize its core audience are sweaty male nerds, so all it tries to deliver is anyway to help that audience. I don't know about you, but any interest I have (from a characteristic stanpoint) in the shows female's are lost once they go into nude.

Bottom Line: If nudity isn't needed to make the show better, it isn't needed at all.

Abarenbo Shogun wrote:

I mean, how can you explain the fact that the 50 Cent game got more advertising time, yet most gamers i've talked to hate the game and will only buy it used and not fuel the egomania of a hack rapper??

I guess I'm a different breed. Typically, if I hate something, I don't buy it used, I don't buy it at all.

dentedonion wrote:

It's nice to hear another female perspective on male fanservice. Maybe I interpreted the series incorrectly, but I always assumed that Grenadier was just a parody of fanservice in general by endowing its protagonist with oversized breasts.

Grenadier's fanservice is more an exploitation of other series' barrier-breaking bustier bouncing than parody, IMO. Kind of like, "Well, since everyone else is being so shamelessly fanservice-oriented, let's take that concept, carry it to an extreme AND give that jiggling an actual purpose: loading a gun." I personally enjoyed that series in large part because of its tongue-in-cheek take on fanservice and other elements.

soumarukaji wrote:

let it be known, whether it has been stated already on this forum or not, that not all guys are horny morons looking for panty shots and large breasts.

No, but I think any heterosexual man would have some percentage of appreciation for fanservice when it shows up. Heck, that's normal, you're supposed to appreciate the opposite sex! It's no different than watching VHD: Bloodlust and thinking to myself that D has a really nice bod. Very Happy

He has nice hair, too, I'm a sucker for men with long (nice) hair.

halochief_90 wrote:

Anyway, I really don't see (even with the ranters point raised) how this fanservice is good.
Fanservice nudity really only lessens a shows integrity.
Bottom Line: If nudity isn't needed to make the show better, it isn't needed at all.

I didn't weigh in on whether fanservice is good or bad, which is a personal opinion. I was weighing in on how you explain to someone who thinks it IS bad that there are objective reasons for its existance (marketing, etc.) and that they should direct their displeasure accordingly, refrain from making moral judgements about the people who watch anime containing fanservice and look at the bigger picture. Fanservice also is MUCH more than mere nudity. As I explained with Cowboy Bebop, fanservice can serve a dual purpose of moving the plot forward while also spicing things up for the audience. This doesn't mean Faye's outfits are not fanservice just because they happen to make sense, but it doesn't mean they're shallow and expendable extras tacked willy nilly onto the series.

I don't like the way this person tends to see the world through the typical cliched glasses, where all men are sexual deviants, and all women are clean, dandy saints. There's ALOT of fanservice out there for the female otaku. Mainly involving Bishounen, and Shoutakon. It's just slightly different. As seen in Seinfeld "there's good naked, and bad naked". Most females have no wish to stare at guys walking around naked for no reason, the male body(in it's entirety) isn't beautiful, as is the female body. But damn if my female friends don't get a kick, or damn near get off on seeing guys with their shirt's off in Gravi, Ouran, Weib, etc. Or watching the scenes in Fake, Kizuna, etc.

The women's hentai market may be much smaller, but the ratio of male fans:male fanservice, and female fans:female fanservice is probably pretty close. There are many more male otaku, thus much more fanservice catered to males. But there are a ton of series out there that strip the guys of their shirts, top layer of pants, body hair, etc to sell to the female market. And they love it.

halochief_90 wrote:

Anyway, I really don't see (even with the ranters point raised) how this fanservice is good. Honestly, even as a guy, anything with nudity always seems to be a desperite attempt to make the movie look better. I first watched Akira a few months back which, was already boring to begin with, then it just had to through in nudity, all I was thinking for the next 10 minutes was, "Did they really need that?" Not long after, I decided to hit stop because I couldn't care what would happen next.

Wow. You turned off THE defining anime movie, one of the greatest films ever made from a creator in any country, because there was a flash (less than 2 seconds) of boobs?

That's just....staggering. That's like storming out of "Schindler's List" because it has a sex scene in it--one that is much longer, and much more sexual than the scene in Akira.

I should point out that that is the only instance of nudity in the entire movie. Two seconds. In a 2 hour movie. And it's not even sexy nudity, either....I first saw the movie at the hormonally-raging age of 12, and that scene wasn't arousing--it was shocking, which was exactly what Otomo intended.

It serves a purpose, as well, I should note, as it implies just how despicable these motorcycle gangs are (i.e. they aren't just hooligans who destroy property and drag race their motorcycles, but are horrible enough to attempt to rape a woman while her boyfriend watches), and Tetsuo's reaction afterwards speaks to the personality of the character.

Akira is an amazing movie, full of complex themes that still entertain and puzzle this viewer, 15 years and a good 30 or 40 viewings after the first time I watched it. I highly suggest giving it another chance.

halochief_90 wrote:

Anyway, I really don't see (even with the ranters point raised) how this fanservice is good. Honestly, even as a guy, anything with nudity always seems to be a desperite attempt to make the movie look better. I first watched Akira a few months back which, was already boring to begin with, then it just had to through in nudity, all I was thinking for the next 10 minutes was, "Did they really need that?" Not long after, I decided to hit stop because I couldn't care what would happen next.

Have you considered seeking professional help?

Zac wrote:

halochief_90 wrote:

Anyway, I really don't see (even with the ranters point raised) how this fanservice is good. Honestly, even as a guy, anything with nudity always seems to be a desperite attempt to make the movie look better. I first watched Akira a few months back which, was already boring to begin with, then it just had to through in nudity, all I was thinking for the next 10 minutes was, "Did they really need that?" Not long after, I decided to hit stop because I couldn't care what would happen next.

Have you considered seeking professional help?

The nudity in Akira was during spoiler[ the attempted rape scene] so therefore that would classify as needed to strengthen the act. But I can see halochief_90's other points where the fanservice is only put in as a crutch to support a weak plot so much so that it becomes the only reason to watch that title. Like any soft porn the plot is only there to get the girl in a situation where she could and will show off a part of her anatomy in a titilating way. Once this is seen the plot becomes irrelevant. This situation nearly ruined Chrono Crusade for me, but thankfully it was kept to only once, and that once was still completely unnecessary to tell the story.

Quote:

Grenadier's fanservice is more an exploitation of other series' barrier-breaking bustier bouncing than parody, IMO. Kind of like, "Well, since everyone else is being so shamelessly fanservice-oriented, let's take that concept, carry it to an extreme AND give that jiggling an actual purpose: loading a gun." I personally enjoyed that series in large part because of its tongue-in-cheek take on fanservice and other elements.

That's probably a more accurate way of putting it. The only word i could think of was parody heh heh Very Happy

Either way it was a funny show!

jgreen wrote:

Wow. You turned off THE defining anime movie, one of the greatest films ever made from a creator in any country, because there was a flash (less than 2 seconds) of boobs?

Look, I also said; "Akira was boring to begin with". It was a series of events thorughout the movie that led to me to turning it off: the characters were dull, the dub was aweful, the animation felt old, and I didn't really care for the storyline. You gotta admit by some degree the movie is dated and that just because it was awesome in 1988, doesn't mean 18 years later it will be just as good. I know I'm not the only guy on this site that didn't care for Akira. Also note that I didn't turn the movie off until about half an hour after the rape scene. Now that I've thought about it though, I guess "the flash" wasn't completly unneeded (but that doesn't mean nudity is nessessarily the answer). I will probably give the movie another shot, but only if it's the DVD with the new dub.

Zilveari wrote:

I don't like the way this person tends to see the world through the typical cliched glasses, where all men are sexual deviants, and all women are clean, dandy saints.

This typical clicheness represents the perspective of those who have kneejerk reactions to fanservice, not my personal views. Woman are not clean, dandy saints, if I thought that, I would be horrified by fanservice and never watch any series that contained even a flicker of a pantyshot. I'm so UNCLEAN, as it were, that I can sit Nightshift Nurses (three times and counting) and find it completely hilarious while at the same time teasing my (ex) boyfriend about missing out on the experience. Yeesh. I think I said too much.

ANYWAYS...the fanservice wouldn't exist if guys cared not a whit about it, so becoming all fussy and insisting that guys aren't interested in that sort of thing makes no sense. Being of the modest female persuasion, I don't like being the object of men's fanservicey thought processes, so I understandably wish they weren't like that, but hey, guys are guys, I don't have to like it, but I have to accept it. Same goes for fanservice: my personal opinion is neither here nor there, since its underlying causes are not the kinds of things that can be given moral weight.

Can I just say how prevalent Fanservice is in American Cinema? We don't have it in television, because the FCC obviously would explode to see what people "wanted", but you all know, just as well as I do, 99.99999% of all shower scenes are spontaneously thrown in in hopes for maybe the 2,000 people who'll show up because <insert name> is naked.

It's marketing at its lowest, and at its highest. Giving the fan what they want and stomping out your own creative juices, or maybe since we're in the entertainment buisness it's our right to serve the fan, who knows.

I certainly find fanservice a problem. First off anime and mange isn't very well-known in Norway (they just started translating and selling JUMP last summer). Now excessive cleavage isn't a big prob, Grenadier just made me laugh with the insane size of the boobies. What disturbs me is shots in an upward angle of girls pantsies, the big boobs are on persons that at least looks a bit mature, while these pantsy pictures are of high-school girls or even younger, and it makes people wonder if i'm a psycho-pervert for actually watching this.

I've managed to make some of my friends fairly interested in anime, that doesn't include any of the girls "we'll just leave you guys to watch those weird cartoons" our girlfriends says and takes off Confused

. But i wouldn't show my friends a show with tons of pantsy shoots fanservice, whenever they see me watching something like that they do ask questions of why i'm watching it and it's hard to give an answer. So usually it's just series like bleach, ergo proxy, noir, wolf's rain, cowboy bebop (yes no big reactions to fay's boobs). So I end up watching those animes at other times, kinda feels like i'm sneaking myself away to watch porno or something Sad

I'll add, i really liked Melody Of Oblivion, until the last 4-5 episodes when all of a sudden they're going into space, gets naked and rubs on this lotion thingy to breath in space....i was left dumbfounded, why on earth would they need to make a scene like that?

k0la wrote:

I certainly find fanservice a problem. First off anime and mange isn't very well-known in Norway (they just started translating and selling JUMP last summer). Now excessive cleavage isn't a big prob, Grenadier just made me laugh with the insane size of the boobies. What disturbs me is shots in an upward angle of girls pantsies, the big boobs are on persons that at least looks a bit mature, while these pantsy pictures are of high-school girls or even younger, and it makes people wonder if i'm a psycho-pervert for actually watching this.

I've managed to make some of my friends fairly interested in anime, that doesn't include any of the girls "we'll just leave you guys to watch those weird cartoons" our girlfriends says and takes off Confused

. But i wouldn't show my friends a show with tons of pantsy shoots fanservice, whenever they see me watching something like that they do ask questions of why i'm watching it and it's hard to give an answer. So usually it's just series like bleach, ergo proxy, noir, wolf's rain, cowboy bebop (yes no big reactions to fay's boobs). So I end up watching those animes at other times, kinda feels like i'm sneaking myself away to watch porno or something Sad

One has to remember for whom these titles originally are made for. The Japanese recluse who has no social skills and therefore has no girlfriend to interact with in any way. These are the only close contact they will likely ever get to a sexual partner and experience what it is, or would be like to have a girl, or boyfriend depending on perference. There are lots, as has been published in their popular press of late, enough so that they have hugh spending capital to invest on this genre so that is why there is so much at various levels of sleezyness. Yes you have to be either very brave, or very foolish to invite your friends of both genders to view these without getting some rather strange looks in response. But really if you're not a sexually deprived recluse as described, what's the point anyway? If you like them yourself, then just watch them yourself. There are other more general titles out there to share with friends that shouldn't leave you labeled a "psycho-pervert".

Mohawk52 wrote:

k0la wrote:

I certainly find fanservice a problem. First off anime and mange isn't very well-known in Norway (they just started translating and selling JUMP last summer). Now excessive cleavage isn't a big prob, Grenadier just made me laugh with the insane size of the boobies. What disturbs me is shots in an upward angle of girls pantsies, the big boobs are on persons that at least looks a bit mature, while these pantsy pictures are of high-school girls or even younger, and it makes people wonder if i'm a psycho-pervert for actually watching this.

I've managed to make some of my friends fairly interested in anime, that doesn't include any of the girls "we'll just leave you guys to watch those weird cartoons" our girlfriends says and takes off Confused

. But i wouldn't show my friends a show with tons of pantsy shoots fanservice, whenever they see me watching something like that they do ask questions of why i'm watching it and it's hard to give an answer. So usually it's just series like bleach, ergo proxy, noir, wolf's rain, cowboy bebop (yes no big reactions to fay's boobs). So I end up watching those animes at other times, kinda feels like i'm sneaking myself away to watch porno or something Sad

One has to remember for whom these titles originally are made for. The Japanese recluse who has no social skills and therefore has no girlfriend to interact with in any way. These are the only close contact they will likely ever get to a sexual partner and experience what it is, or would be like to have a girl, or boyfriend depending on perference. There are lots, as has been published in their popular press of late, enough so that they have hugh spending capital to invest on this genre so that is why there is so much at various levels of sleezyness. Yes you have to be either very brave, or very foolish to invite your friends of both genders to view these without getting some rather strange looks in response. But really if you're not a sexually deprived recluse as described, what's the point anyway? If you like them yourself, then just watch them yourself. There are other more general titles out there to share with friends that shouldn't leave you labeled a "psycho-pervert".

Yeah i know that some animes aim at groups like this and they rarely have a storyline of interest so i don't bother. But there are animes that have good storylines, normally dressed girls with normal physical attributes, still yet for some reason a panties shoot will find it's way in at least once every episode, very often it's included when camera is zooming over an area introducing the scenery of a new scene. Seems so unneccesary. I can enjoy some animes with lots of fanservice too, like "maburaho", but it suits the anime, cause that's all it's trying to be an anime with lots of girls to fantasize about and some humour, but doesn't belong in animes trying to have a serious plot.

sabriyahm wrote:

FYI I'm a girl and I'm sorry but I can't help but wish there were a lot less fanservice in anime. Maybe it's because I watch anime and don't read much manga (unless it's a continuation of an anime I loved like Kenshin).
[...]
More and more shows I've stopped watching after the first disc in disgust. As I get older and older and see 30 on the horizon, I am starting to feel that anime isn't really for all ages. I feel like I am getting too old to watch shows about giant waving breasts. [...] After a girl out grows the magical girl phase what is there for her?

I'm sorry to hear you feel that way, sabriyahm. Perhaps you are watching the wrong shows? You know, most anime is "pop" entertainment, which doesn't mean it's bad, but it's more likely to have panty shots, oversized breasts, etc. because that's so mainstream in Japan, esp. in anime. "Pop" entertainment is inherently light and fluffy fare, not really substantial enough for adults unless you like switching off your brain when you switch on the TV. You don't listen to bubblegum pop music anymore, so why watch pop TV?

You should be looking off the beaten path for the more mature stuff. I don't mean mature as in "Akira", where people get mashed into gravy, but mature in tone and story. (And I have to say in halochief's defense that the animated adaptation of "Akira" was a muddled mess of a movie that gets *way* more credit than it deserves.)

Have you watched "Ghost in the Shell"? The original movie has a fair amount of exploitative nudity, but the property overall is quite serious and intelligent. After watching the first movie, watch either the second one, "Innocence", or one of the two "Stand-Alone Complex" TV series (I recommend season 1).

What about "Trigun"? No fanservice there. The women are no more well-endowed than Kaoru-dono of "Kenshin". A true black sheep in the world of anime, it's more popular here by far than it ever was in Japan.

What about the Gundam universe? Girls tend to find the old Tomino series tragically boring, but have you seen "Gundam Wing", which features a strong female lead, or "The 08th MS Team", which deals as much with love as it does war?

I don't know what anime adult women usually watch, but I think the above shows are pretty appealing to both genders. Have you seen those already? I'm no otaku. I'd bet others here could list other less-known series that adults can enjoy.

P.S.: If you can appreciate eerie psychological stuff, "Paranoia Agent" is fantastic.

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