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NEWS: U.S. SyFy Channel Lists No More Anime After June 9


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Deadwing



Joined: 18 May 2006
Posts: 174
Location: North Augusta, SC
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 4:21 pm Reply with quote
ZeroGee wrote:
It's a matter of business. Not evil.
They want to maximize profit and reduce cost. When the cost of production increases, they maximize profit by minimizing production costs. This is why you see more reality shows on almost all networks because they cost little to produce. And why all SYFY's "original" movies consist of reused plots. It's cheaper for them. They get ad revenue, but in the long run lose viewers because their shit becomes incredibley boring as hell.
It's a vicious circle.
As far as anime goes, it costs money not only to produce and license, it costs even more to translate and pay voice actors. So if it doesnt get a lot of viewers, it doesnt make them money.

Yep. Short-term profits. That's all modern TV execs think of. Execs of yesteryear were far less myopic. For example, it's been noted that if execs from 20, 30, or 40 years ago were like the ones today, then shows like M*A*S*H, Cheers, and Seinfeld would never have gone on to become the hits they were since their ratings were terrible early in their runs. Shows that get those kind of ratings nowadays get cancelled before their first season even gets through airing. And of course as you noted short-term thinking results in things like reality TV.

Teriyaki Terrier wrote:

Exactly. Either the anime has been butchered so badly due to ultra American censorship or has been edited so there plenty of time for commercials that usually aren't that interesting to start with. Or my personal favorite, the show is shifted around so much, you have a better chance guessing the weather for the next week.

Let's take a look at the channels that still show anime;

Cartoon Network. Well after Toonami was shut down and eradicated, CN has not been the same. To be honest, the finale version of Toonami was not the same Toonami I knew for several years, but they still had great shows none the less. It's little sad, but when Toonami ended, it felt like the good times ended as well. I am not sure how long they will continue to aire anime, but these days, it's so strictly edited, it's anyone's guess.

Let's not forget how instrumental anime on TV, especially Toonami, was at popularizing anime in America. Sure, they had to cut shows for content and/or time (only Sci-Fi's Saturday Anime showed things relatively uncut back in the late 90s), but it was a small price to pay. Shows like DBZ, Sailor Moon, and later on Naruto were huge gateway series for many kids, teens, and young adults in the late 90s and early to mid 00s.

Quote:
4kids: They are done for. I could go on more about them, but straight up, they likely will shut down very soon most likely.

Eh. I couldn't care less. Every anime they touched turned to crap anyway, though on the plus side they did provide some gateway series for many young anime fans, and I have heard that a couple of their non-anime properties were okay.

Quote:
Disney. I think when Naruto Shippuden ends, so will the Disney running anime. Frankly, although Disney is not like 4kids, some of the edits they have done with the series seemed a bit much. Let's also not forget how much censorship has been used in the Disney Naruto series as well. Honestly, I think Disney is relying on popularity and that type of trick usually only works once if your really lucky, and twice by pure chance.

Shippuden will take several years to end its run, possibly longer depending on how long the manga runs and if Disney's contract to air it lasts until the very end. Now, I'm still puzzled on how they cut Naruto to TV-Y7 levels of content (blood & swearing get cut, and the "Never Say Die" trope in in full effect), yet it still gets the TV-PG rating. Naruto deserved the TV-PG rating when it first aired on Toonami back in 2005, but Disney's airing of Shippuden is Y7 at worst.

Quote:
Nickelodeon. Out of every company I listed, they have the best chance of actually maybe becoming the next anime station if they play their cards right and really think before they leap into action. Now, Nick still does edits, but at least they don't go super overboard and censor so much of the show it's unwatchable, so for that I give them some credit. Not a lot, but a tiny bit.

The only things I've watched on Nick since the turn of the century have been Invader Zim and Avatar. I watched Nick religiously from the time I was a kid back in the 80s all the way up to my high school years in the mid to late 90s. By the very late 90s, they were barely showing anything I enjoyed, and reruns of older shows stopped. I'd probably watch the Nicktoons channel, but Comcast doesn't carry it here in the Augusta area. Sad

Quote:
But times have changed and eventually, TV may be a thing of past and the internet may be the next generation TV.

I doubt that. Only 27% of households have broadband internet while 58% of households have cable, and IPTV-capable TVs (e.g., certain Panasonic Vieras that utilize Viera Connect) are still very new. Cable still has a good number of years left before the internet has a chance to challenge its dominance.
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kokoro1



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 21
Location: Mobile, Alabama
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 7:57 pm Reply with quote
Deadwing wrote:
Let's not forget how instrumental anime on TV, especially Toonami, was at popularizing anime in America. Sure, they had to cut shows for content and/or time (only Sci-Fi's Saturday Anime showed things relatively uncut back in the late 90s), but it was a small price to pay. Shows like DBZ, Sailor Moon, and later on Naruto were huge gateway series for many kids, teens, and young adults in the late 90s and early to mid 00s.


I remember 4 years ago they had a bomb threat in Boston and they kicked the former CN president out and replaced with a personlwho likes live-action shows.

Quote:
The only things I've watched on Nick since the turn of the century have been Invader Zim and Avatar. I watched Nick religiously from the time I was a kid back in the 80s all the way up to my high school years in the mid to late 90s. By the very late 90s, they were barely showing anything I enjoyed, and reruns of older shows stopped. I'd probably watch the Nicktoons channel, but Comcast doesn't carry it here in the Augusta area.


Well, our Comcast from here doesn't carry Nicktoons until June 2006 when we wanted it on our line-up so bad so I can enjoy more reruns of Yakkity Yak and other.
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14746
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 8:45 pm Reply with quote
Deadwing wrote:
ZeroGee wrote:

As far as anime goes, it costs money not only to produce and license, it costs even more to translate and pay voice actors. So if it doesnt get a lot of viewers, it doesnt make them money.

Yep. Short-term profits. That's all modern TV execs think of. Execs of yesteryear were far less myopic. For example, it's been noted that if execs from 20, 30, or 40 years ago were like the ones today, then shows like M*A*S*H, Cheers, and Seinfeld would never have gone on to become the hits they were since their ratings were terrible early in their runs.


It's about the money. The more money involved, the higher the stakes, the less forgiving the beancounters. If you're now gonna charge $1M for 30-sec ad, if advertisers are now paying $1M per ad, everyone wants their viewers from the get-go.
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writerpatrick



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 670
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 6:49 pm Reply with quote
One of the problems is that anime fans don't wait for anime to show up on TV anymore. By the time it does they've already either watched it online, bought or rented the DVDs, or downloaded the fansubs. It causes stations to cut back for lack of viewers but as stations cut back it force fans to turn to other sources. So it's a downward spiral.
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Deadwing



Joined: 18 May 2006
Posts: 174
Location: North Augusta, SC
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 7:20 pm Reply with quote
enurtsol wrote:
It's about the money. The more money involved, the higher the stakes, the less forgiving the beancounters. If you're now gonna charge $1M for 30-sec ad, if advertisers are now paying $1M per ad, everyone wants their viewers from the get-go.

The stakes aren't as high as you think. The average cost of a 30-second ad on primetime network TV (which garners the highest ratings and hence the higest ad costs) is, adjusted for inflation, no higher now than ten or twenty years ago. According to Adweek, the average cost of a primetime ad last season (2009-2010) was about $200,000 for Fox and less than half that for NBC, CBS, and ABC (source). The same source says that cable ads cost much lower, with the average being just under $10,000 per ad and the highest cost being $19,300 for ads on ESPN. Over the last ten years, the cost of an ad on primetime network TV has experienced somewhat of a downward trend, with the highest number being ads during ER in the 2000-2001 season, which cost $620,000 in 2000 dollars, or nearly $810,000 in 2011 dollars (source). While finding older numbers is a bit harder, an Entertainment Weekly article from 1991 focused on Tim Burton's Batman film stated that the average cost of an ad in primetime was $120,000, or about $200,000 in 2011 dollars (source).

So, if the stakes aren't higher, then why are execs of today far less forgiving of those from decades past, willing to can a show even before it's first season is finished, either for having less-than-desired ratings, or not getting the right demo, or some other reason altogether? Like you said, it's about the money (though it's not about the ads). TV networks, being businesses, are of course focused primarily focused on the bottom line, which is just that. But like I said, it's probably because they're more concerned over the short-term than the long-term. They're myopic and, like most Americans (and other peoples of the developed world), increasingly demanding of instant gratification. They want high ratings, and they want them yesterday. Internal politics probably contributes to how execs treat a show. Perhaps, just perhaps, execs from two, three, or four decades ago were more likely to think about the long term or more inclined to do things for the art (though the money was still the primary motivator), and thus were more likely to give a show a chance. Like I said, there's no way in hell that shows like M*A*S*H, Cheers, and Seinfeld would have become the hits they were if execs of the past were like the execs of today. They all wouldv'e likely been cancelled after the first season. Shows that take multiple seasons to get off the ground are anathema for 21st century TV. Getting Screwed by the Network is far more prevalent now than it was in decades past.
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yuna49



Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Posts: 3804
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 10:23 pm Reply with quote
Deadwing wrote:
The average cost of a 30-second ad on primetime network TV (which garners the highest ratings and hence the higest ad costs) is, adjusted for inflation, no higher now than ten or twenty years ago.

But since viewership has fallen over the period, the cost of an "impression" has risen. Primetime network ads reach fewer households today than they did a decade ago, so the cost per thousand households has risen.

See, for instance, http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2010/04/12/where-did-the-primetime-broadcast-tv-audience-go/47976/.

Some of this downward trend in ratings (measured as a percentage of households with TVs) has been offset by population growth, but not all.
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Deadwing



Joined: 18 May 2006
Posts: 174
Location: North Augusta, SC
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:28 am Reply with quote
Don't forget the costs of ad space, though. It has not remained flat. As I said, finding older figures for the cost of having an ad on primetime is harder than finding figures for more recent years, the few sources I've been able to find yield inflation-adjusted numbers of anywhere from about $150-200,000 per ad on average in the early to mid 90s, compared to just over $100,000 for last season. So, while in both percentage and absolute terms audience numbers for primetime broadcast TV have been dwindling, the cost of ad space on it has been dwindling along with it. Ergo, the cost per 1000 households has at most stayed flat and probably declined over the past 20 years.

So again, the stakes are not higher today than they were 20+ years ago, and therefore there must be some other reason why the TV execs of today are far less forgiving.
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The Abided



Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 28
PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:46 pm Reply with quote
I wish they'd at least finish airing the first season of Star Blazers, to finish the arc. Even if they gave it a very late air time (maybe at like 5 am, like CN used to do when they gave up on a series in the middle of its airing), people could DVR it or something. But as someone already noted, based on the end date being the 9th, and the start date of the block 4 years ago being June 11th, there are probably contractual reasons for that not occurring. Oh well, i guess ill just have to stream the final 10 episodes...
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jr240483



Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 4369
Location: New York City,New York,USA
PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:42 am Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
Catseyetiger wrote:
Anime seems to have died on tv.
sad!


Can't say I'm mad; it was always either butchered severely due to American censors being so strict or edited for tons of commercials and shifted around a lot (SyFy)


Well the edits were not that bad on Sci Fi. and edits on AS were not as severe. But at least the edits were not as bad unlike the ones from the horror that is 4kids as well as from Corus Ent's sister site. Though it;s sad to see they go cause my first anime I watched on TV was on Sci Fi during Sat mornings during the 80's

Also good news is the Durarara!! will be on AS.

Now all that's left is for to 4 crap kids to finally kick the bucket,

Naruto Shippuden to be rescued by the claws of crappy disney xd before they ruin it , ( same with DBZ Kai ) ,

find a way to leaglly get rid of those illegal streamers , fansubbers and their web sites cause their bleeding the industry dry ,

and for the two sides ( US & Japan Licensors ) to fiancially find a way to get anime to the US faster that benefits both sides. Though it maybe wishful thinking on my part , but if these 4 things happens , ( starting with the end od 4 crap kids ) their is a slight possibility that anime in the US might make a comback.
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14746
PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:22 am Reply with quote
jr0904 wrote:
Though it;s sad to see they go cause my first anime I watched on TV was on Sci Fi during Sat mornings during the 80's


Sci-Fi channel came into existence 1992. Laughing


jr0904 wrote:

Naruto Shippuden to be rescued by the claws of crappy disney xd before they ruin it , ( same with DBZ Kai ) ,


It's the other way around. Nobody else wanted to air Shippuden and DBZ Kai. Those stations rescued them from the void of dead air.
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ArsenicSteel



Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 2370
PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:20 am Reply with quote
writerpatrick wrote:
One of the problems is that anime fans don't wait for anime to show up on TV anymore. By the time it does they've already either watched it online, bought or rented the DVDs, or downloaded the fansubs. It causes stations to cut back for lack of viewers but as stations cut back it force fans to turn to other sources. So it's a downward spiral.


That would be the price all stations ultimately pay for when shows are second-hand airings.
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kokoro1



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 21
Location: Mobile, Alabama
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:05 am Reply with quote
Today's the last week of anime on Syfy... So sad...

Be replaced with American Ninja Warrior.
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The Abided



Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 28
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:46 pm Reply with quote
Sad indeed, it was good while it lasted...
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LagannImpact



Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Posts: 574
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:54 pm Reply with quote
kokoro1 wrote:
Today's the last week of anime on Syfy... So sad...

Be replaced with the same random unintelligible crap Syfy airs 24 hours a day.


Quote fixed! It was funny two years ago when Sci Fi changed its name to the Polish word for crap, but now it's just become ironic, as that's exactly what that channel plays. Very Happy
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