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epixeltwin



Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 325
Location: Montreal, Qc, Canada
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:38 am Reply with quote
Zero89 wrote:
Let's say you are the newest dictator of an independent country, how about.... China, (ignore all the other forms of power Wink). You being the 'dictator' and all, you ban all "offensive" forms of free speech...(because it leads to hostility)... Yet you draw people from different countries by spreading the word that you are a country who seeks to better understand religion.... but because Christianity causes heated debates; you eventually outlaw all talk of Christianity... This defeats the purpose of what you proclaimed was the mission of your country... and essentially, you 'lied' to your fellow citizens... Which is "immoral" in my eyes...


I suggest you draw a line between private property and a whole country. Your (unreadable and all mixed up) analogy compares a website (that you can BUY with MONEY), to a land filled with billions of people? Oookk...RIGHT...nice argument.

Let's just say that the people renting/running the server are the ones that set the rules, and if people feel their Virtual, Internet Freedom of speech is harmed, well they can just go to another website.

Oh and about China, the Chinese police monitors everything that chinese internet users do. They cannot consult any site containing topics about freedom, revolution or Tibet. THAT'S some censorship. They can't just go to another internet, because there's only one. And it's not like the owner of a Web Cafe forbade it, since it's a whole PUBLIC issue.
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HitokiriShadow



Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 6251
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:40 am Reply with quote
ryujin jakka wrote:
I have been follwoing this thread for a while now and I have refrained from speaking, but no longer will I idealy sit by and watch this "Christian" give the rest of us Christians Bad name's.

I Like Jesus, I like anime. Gantz, and NGE are the Shit! So is Jesus. The CAA just likes to stomp on free speech. Isn't This supposed to be " One nation under God". A nation created for freedom and Justice and Peace. Let people discuss what they want and Let it go at that!

We are not all THAT INMATURE! Mad



ryujin jakka wrote:
You are babbeling, What are you trying to say! I can't understand!

No YOU did not say SOME CHRISTIANS were INMATURE. I DID!

I am a member of 23 Forum's, Not one has Stomped on my Right to free speech!

I hate Hentai( for other reason's) But whats wrong with It? If it is some one elses cup-o-tea so be it!


-Curtis


Please try and type something coherent. You are babbling, seem to be contradicting yourself (in hilariously ironic ways), and aside from flaming/trolling, I have no idea what you are trying to say.
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Wolverine Princess



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1100
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:01 am Reply with quote
HitokiriShadow wrote:
ryujin jakka wrote:
I have been follwoing this thread for a while now and I have refrained from speaking, but no longer will I idealy sit by and watch this "Christian" give the rest of us Christians Bad name's.

I Like Jesus, I like anime. Gantz, and NGE are the Shit! So is Jesus. The CAA just likes to stomp on free speech. Isn't This supposed to be " One nation under God". A nation created for freedom and Justice and Peace. Let people discuss what they want and Let it go at that!

We are not all THAT INMATURE! Mad



ryujin jakka wrote:
You are babbeling, What are you trying to say! I can't understand!

No YOU did not say SOME CHRISTIANS were INMATURE. I DID!

I am a member of 23 Forum's, Not one has Stomped on my Right to free speech!

I hate Hentai( for other reason's) But whats wrong with It? If it is some one elses cup-o-tea so be it!


-Curtis


Please try and type something coherent. You are babbling, seem to be contradicting yourself (in hilariously ironic ways), and aside from flaming/trolling, I have no idea what you are trying to say.


Here's what I got from his posts.

The first post:
The CAA is giving Christians a bad name because they cannot discuss anything with content that could be perceived as offensive without flame wars. He believes that the bans stomp on the First Amendment.

The second post:
I think ryujin is upset because excel said that some of his favorite anime have "immoral implications". Excel goes on to say that no forum on the internet allows total free speech, and ryujin counters that (although what excel says here is somewhat true --even ANN restricts the "freedom of speech" of spammers, people who post non-contributing one-liners, and people with really, really bad grammar) he has never felt his right to free speech was restricted on any of his twenty three forums that he is a member of. Excel says, "I also never said Christians were immature. Just that some CAA members might possibly be immature." Ryujin says that excel never actually explicitly said that the CAA members are immature and that he is drawing his self-quote out of thin air.

Sometimes my friends ask me to correct their English papers before they turn them in. I have experience decifering gibberish.


Last edited by Wolverine Princess on Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:08 am; edited 2 times in total
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Zero89



Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 147
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:03 am Reply with quote
epixeltwin wrote:
Zero89 wrote:
Let's say you are the newest dictator of an independent country, how about.... China, (ignore all the other forms of power Wink). You being the 'dictator' and all, you ban all "offensive" forms of free speech...(because it leads to hostility)... Yet you draw people from different countries by spreading the word that you are a country who seeks to better understand religion.... but because Christianity causes heated debates; you eventually outlaw all talk of Christianity... This defeats the purpose of what you proclaimed was the mission of your country... and essentially, you 'lied' to your fellow citizens... Which is "immoral" in my eyes...


I suggest you draw a line between private property and a whole country. Your (unreadable and all mixed up) analogy compares a website (that you can BUY with MONEY), to a land filled with billions of people? Oookk...RIGHT...nice argument.


You sir(?) are nit-picking at technical flaults...i.e. The "private property", and "whole country", issue...

You fail to see the concept that I was trying to relate.... Let me try to sum it up for you... There is a person trying to do good, but in trying to do too much good.... The changes they make contradict their overall goal, and these contradictions prevent them from fulfilling their goal as effeciently as possible... It's not entirely what I was trying to get at, but I made that analogy up for a reason. Rolling Eyes

Unload your "teacup of misconceptions" so that you have a chance at understanding what others are saying...

P.S. I did exaggerate to get my point across, as I stated in my post...

Edit:

You can find as much similarities, or as much differences as you want in any anology...

Anology dictionary.com
1. a) Similarity in some respects between things that are otherwise dissimilar.

My analogy's purpose was to try to give OnePieceFANatic a different view... Since he said he'll never understand... It wasn't about being technically right on every aspect of the comparison...

If I offended anyone by naming China, I apologize. Don't take everything in there so seriously... It was there to convey my thoughts, nothing more, nothing less...


Last edited by Zero89 on Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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ryujin jakka



Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 156
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:12 am Reply with quote
You Guy's are right, This topic makes me too Damn mad to think. There are so many thing's i want to say but I realize that they are just inmature and Childish, I belive I have just Loged my Foot in my own mouth, my Apologies. I think I will bow out before I agravate Any one else. Sorry for the Frustration, I do not deal with subjects like this very well. Agin Sorry for loosing my cool.


Peace.


- Curtis
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OnePieceFANatic



Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 104
Location: The Grand Line!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:51 am Reply with quote
Zero89 wrote:
OnePieceFANatic wrote:
Oh well, I quit this pointless argument. I can't see what's morally wrong about putting restrictions on your own website, and saying whatever you want about it, on your own website. I don't think I ever will, because I don't think there's anything wrong with it, and that's not going to change. Ownership is ownership, you have every right to do what you want on your site.

If people went there expecting different, and found there were restrictions, that's really not the sites fault.


Dude, all you've been saying is this: it's their site, let them do as they like...

Here's my analogy for this...

Let's say you are the newest dictator of an independent country, how about.... China, (ignore all the other forms of power Wink). You being the 'dictator' and all, you ban all "offensive" forms of free speech...(because it leads to hostility)... Yet you draw people from different countries by spreading the word that you are a country who seeks to better understand religion.... but because Christianity causes heated debates; you eventually outlaw all talk of Christianity... This defeats the purpose of what you proclaimed was the mission of your country... and essentially, you 'lied' to your fellow citizens... Which is "immoral" in my eyes...

Similarly, by what you just said you could also kill a hundred people a night to pass your boredom... and according to your statement you wouldn't care because it's their country, right? (a huge exaggeration, I know), But my point still proves valid....

How does all this relate to C.A.A.?
This is how they define themselves...

Quote:
CAA is a non-profit, non-denominational organization dedicating to using the anime and manga world to transform lives and impact others for Jesus Christ, whom we believe to be the one and only son of God.
(this comes directly from their site... shouldn't it be dedicated Laughing? As if I'm one to talk. Wink).

It is in my opinion that they could better accomplish their goal by allowing civil discussions on controversial issues... such as NGE.... In fact, they should encourage discussions on controversial shows such as these to "impact" the lives of people... Very few shows are as life-impacting as NGE... And if these are truly their goals, (or goal, whatever), don't you think they're shooting themselves in the foot.

Again, just my opinion though...


Owning a country doesn't mean owning people's lives, so you can't kill them on whim. Ofc, tyrants still do, and for fun too, but I don't think they'd be too surprised when people revolt and tear them to shreds. Owning a forum is different than owning a country, it's not like comparing apples and oranges, because those two already have so many similarities, it's more like comparing an apple to a metal ball. They're both round, yay.

Also, have they banned all talk of Christianity on their site? I don't think so (tho I haven't actually checked), and it's not very useful to assume they will, you can talk about that when it happens. Until then, I don't think it defeats the purpose of the site, which I frankly don't care for.

But if you like comparing things to extremes, one can compare the two forms of moderation. On this site, they remove posts like "ANIME AND MANGA IS FOR GEEKS LOL". They limited free speech, and it's understood it's because the thing that the guy who posted it may start a flame war. It's the same when you ban anything else you think will start a flame war. Kind of like how, on a Jewish forum, you may get banned for starting a topic called "Hitler", or at least have it locked right away. It's still just more and more opinion. That topic didn't have to start a flame war, and neither does the "anime fans=geeks" one, sure it's stupid, but it didn't have to start a flamewar, because a mature person wouldn't respond. But they're not taking risks apparently, because maybe CAA isn't full of mature people. And maybe ANN's users aren't mature enough to ignore that one guy's post up there. This site is pretty much doing the same thing when they limit total freedom of speech.

As for:

Quote:
CAA is a non-profit, non-denominational organization dedicating to using the anime and manga world to transform lives and impact others for Jesus Christ, whom we believe to be the one and only son of God.


My brain sort of filtered out all the Jesus talk on auto-filter. But from what I understood, they said they would use the anime and manga world to transform others into whatever. Anime and manga that they feel won't turn people into whatever, don't need to be used. And they don't have to be. I can't see many faults in that statement relative to what their doing on their site.

Also, NGE isn't life-impacting to all people. I hated the show, and thought it was all nonsense. And it's not because I'm religious either, it's just the show tries to act like it's smart, but it isn't, and alot of the "psychlogical" elements in it are probably only applicable in the anime's world. It's wrapped around in a fragile shell that looks intelligent, but as soon as you poke that with your finger, it crumbles. I thought it was all emo, not even worth discussing, empty, and devoid of a moral of the story that actually means a damn. If I had a forum of my own, I could ban it just for sucking so bad. It may be somewhat selfish of me, but immoral? I don't think so. And all that up there is my opinion, and it's ok for me to have one that's different than the mojority. If I wanted to start a site just for bashing eva, it'd still be ok, and not immoral (just as long as we keep it clean with the language).

Moral of the story: It's not immoral to ban anything on your site.

I understand that lying is immoral, but I don't see any lies frankly.
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Zero89



Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 147
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:53 am Reply with quote
OnePieceFANatic wrote:

Also, NGE isn't life-impacting to all people. I hated the show, and thought it was all nonsense. And it's not because I'm religious either, it's just the show tries to act like it's smart, but it isn't, and alot of the "psychlogical" elements in it are probably only applicable in the anime's world. It's wrapped around in a fragile shell that looks intelligent, but as soon as you poke that with your finger, it crumbles. I thought it was all emo, not even worth discussing, empty, and devoid of a moral of the story that actually means a damn. If I had a forum of my own, I could ban it just for sucking so bad. It may be somewhat selfish of me, but immoral? I don't think so. And all that up there is my opinion, and it's ok for me to have one that's different than the mojority. If I wanted to start a site just for bashing eva, it'd still be ok, and not immoral (just as long as we keep it clean with the language).

Moral of the story: It's not immoral to ban anything on your site.

I understand that lying is immoral, but I don't see any lies frankly.


Where did I say NGE impacted everyone? I'm with you on this... Your interpretation of it was spot on with my feelings toward it. Although I would like to add, that I hated almost every character on that show... I still respect the creator for trying to incorporate the Ego, Super Ego, and the Id to an anime, it was just so whiny, that I couldn't even finish the series... But I have heard many people talk about how "mind-blowing" the show was... and very few shows impact anyone's life... The fact that NGE has impacted even some people's lives makes it one of the most life-impacting anime I've ever heard of... People still talk about it 10 years after it's ending, that says something...

In the end, I agree with you when you say morals are open to opinion... Values differ from person to person, and it would be wrong, (to me at least), to try to change someone's values for the sake of an argument...
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OnePieceFANatic



Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 104
Location: The Grand Line!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:02 am Reply with quote
Well, I'm glad we agree on it Smile.

And it gratifies me to see someone think of eva like I do. It's quite rare Mr. Green
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bennyb



Joined: 06 Jun 2006
Posts: 477
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:14 am Reply with quote
frentymon wrote:
...and then Freeza said "Goku you are strong" and Goku said "Freeza you are strong too" and Freeza raised his left arm and Goku raised his right arm and pulled back his left arm in a Kamehameha stance and then Freeza moved an inch downward and Goku pulled his hands back another inch and and Frieza turned his head in a negative twelve degree angle to the left...


C'mon, I can't be the only person who laughed at this!!!!

People trying to summarize and makes sense of 16 page thread equalz = teh lolz!!

RELIGION = TOUCHY SUBJECT = Something everyone has their own strong opinions about. Learn to deal with it people, co-exist, all that good stuff. Can't we all just be otaku together?
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OnePieceFANatic



Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 104
Location: The Grand Line!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:56 am Reply with quote
Well said bennyb. Told like a true One Piece fan Mr. Green
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camelot187757



Joined: 11 Dec 2005
Posts: 426
Location: The Nacirema Dream (17 and counting Asuka)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 8:51 am Reply with quote
Wolverine Princess wrote:


Quote:
I've done pretty bad as far as putting up defenses or putting up a fight againts temptation. However, as odd as it seems, the one thing that is making want to view it less and less everyday is hentai itself.

You claim that you doen't like evil thoughts or anything, but watching hentai helps supress these thoughts. So you hate thinking about sex, and the only way for you not to think about sex is to watch cartoon depictions of sex. So when your at the mall and you see a good looking girl and your mind wonders to the alleged "innaproprate", your remedy is to pull out your ipod and watch your episodes of Angel Blade??? Now that is just effin stupid.

Quote:
I constantly find stuff that disgust me or sometimes angers me. You know the common mis-conception of hentai is that it doesn't hurt anybody because it's just art. However, Hentai displays lots of different types of "Fantasies". Some of them of beyond sane and could be very destructive if one were to act out these "fantasies".

I find more reasons to hate it but it still is tempting. Why? Becuase it's that tricky. Satan is the father of lies. When you are first tempted you think that you'll find something you really like. In the end, you find stuff you never wanted to lay eyes on and, if you are really unlucky, you'll develope thoughts that were never intended ,by God, to be your way of thinking about sex.
So do you mean you watched a porno and decided to try out that new position you saw when you get the chance? Or did you have a dream about growing a 17 penis and raping a 14 year old girl. All of this because you saw it on T.V.? Try the turn it off method. Abstinence I believe they call it. If you find it disgusting, don't watch it. If you don't want to catch a STD or have a Baby out of wedlock, don't have sex. But don't go oh God I can't believe I saw that sick image, God this is disgusting. The don't efffin look at it.

And well you are half right that hentai not hurting anyone is a misconception. Half being that it can hurt someone as weak-willed as yourself when you don't look at it past art. I watched elmur fudd cartoons when i was younger and I don't have repressed thoughts about getting a sawed-off and going on a killing spree. But then again I don't have the safety net that is religion anymore. So if I do go on said killing spree I can't say that its the devil. Yup that would mean that I would have to be responsible for my own actions and we all know how much that sucks Rolling Eyes

And in case you're thinking about it, its okay for you to get turned on by erotica. It doesn't necessairly mean that there's somethin wrong with you if you stare too long at breasts or think too hard about some girl you met. Same with pornography. If you watch it because you enjoy (looking at) it, thats no different than you enjoying a movie allthough there may be an emense amount of violence in it. Its just entertainment. Sometimes I get sick of rap although I find my self aquiring six or seven new albums a week. In that case I just go without for a few hours.

Satan is the father of lies.... You see this is where me and Christianity draw the line. I'm currently agnostic and I have practiced under Christianity (Babtist) and Islam and I really hate it when people can't admit that maybe its just your own sick ass that is thinking these thoughts. "The Devil made me do it" or soem other weak ass excuse to go off and do and think whatever and then want to point the finger at "the devil" because is the easiest cop out, then do a bid in church and claim that everything is okay because the devil isn't controlling you anymore. You are lying to yourself (ironically a sin) when you think that its the devil doing this when its really you that has the thoughts. Man up. If you like porn then you like porn. If your addicted to porn and don't necessairly like it then pray or meditate and try to reliquinsh the compelling thoughts from your mentality. Forget about the Devil and Satan and focus on mentally helping yourself.


(I Joined the Forum and Posted that This Morning)
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Daemonblue



Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 701
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:35 am Reply with quote
First, if you don't like the comparison to the country of China, then try Vietnam, at one point both north AND south was owned by ONE person.

Second, there are several elements in Evangelion that, unless you know of these things, you don't really catch them. If you go to wikipedia you can check out all of the different disorders. personalities, etc. that each person stood for. And don't forget, the person who came up with Evangelion also had a mental problem not long before he made it.

As for hentai, I agree. Saying "The Devil made me do it" will never hold up in court now will it? So why are they using that kind of excuse for their thoughts? Hmmm... maybe because they don't know better, or they do know better but theydon't want to admit that like almost everyone else they too have earthly desires.

I personally thing the relation to a totalitarian dictatorship was rather appropriate. He only used China as an example, probably because more people know of China that, say, Zimbabwe or many of the other African countries going through those problems.

I also agree that banning discussion on such topics is the easy way out. In a way, it's just like their "The Devil made me do it" excuse, just an easy way to cop out of their responsibilities. Some reason this reminds me of the Salem Witch Trials, you know, that whenever something bad happened the all cried "WITCH!!!!" and falsely burned dozens of people at the stake because they believed that the Devil was controlling them.
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cheezisgoooood



Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 253
Location: Orlando, FL
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:48 am Reply with quote
At this point, I find no reason to read this topic anymore...have fun arguing yourselves into a never-ending cycle until some mod decides to lock it again.
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bennyb



Joined: 06 Jun 2006
Posts: 477
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:55 am Reply with quote
cheezisgoooood wrote:
At this point, I find no reason to read this topic anymore...have fun arguing yourselves into a never-ending cycle until some mod decides to lock it again.


Seconded. I'm bored as all heck but still refuse to sort through all this babble, as there's obviously no easy answer to the argument much less one everyone will agree on.
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OnePieceFANatic



Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 104
Location: The Grand Line!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:11 am Reply with quote
Yeah, I quit too. I said I did a few pages back, but typed another post. Now though, I've said everything I could. So I quit this topic, and for real this time.
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