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And it's easy for me to say this: If you're offended by these sorts of groups, just don't visit the site. Easy as pie.

It's not that I'm offended by the group. In fact, I think it's wonderful that there's an organization with a mission to addict Christians to anime. What I don't really understand is why they have to ban anime series if their content is even somewhat controversial. And it’s no masterpiece by a long shot, but in the thread for Bokusatsu Tenshi Dokuro-chan, the reviewer even said that for anyone to like this series is blasphemous and quoted a bunch of Bible verses that supposedly condemn Dokuro.

Here we go:

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I am stating what a Christian should say: This anime is against God for many reasons, including blasphemy. It has content that SHOULD NOT be shown to young viewers: it gives them the message that it's alright to kill because God kills. God does NOT kill, God LOVES and SAVES!

Saying that this review is unfair and having someone else clarify that has insulted me greatly, and has given me no respect. I am outraged by we as Christians who are SUPPOSED to be obeying EVERYTHING the Bible says, ESPECIALLY what God says and then we think "oh this is okay...a little bit of pedophilia is okay...a little bit of prostitution is okay...a little bit of lust is okay..." WRONG, it is entirely against God:

ROM 12:1 Therefore, I urge you, brothers(including sisters), in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God--this is your spiritual act of worship.

2 Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be
transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing and perfect will.

3 For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of
yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with
sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you.

6 We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man's
gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his faith.

7 If it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach;

8 if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is contributing to the
needs of others, let him give generously; if it is leadership, let him
govern diligently; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully.

9 Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.

10 Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above
yourselves.

11 Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the
Lord.

12 Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer.

13 Share with God's people who are in need. Practice hospitality.

14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse.

15 Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn.

16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to
associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited.

17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in
the eyes of everybody.

18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with
everyone.

19 Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it
is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord.

20 On the contrary: "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty,
give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on
his head."

21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

With the statment of being unfair:

Romans 2:1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.

Whoever says they're being unfair for saying something that most Christians would say and is with the will of God is also being unfair by saying that statment against them in the first place.

Romans 13:8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law.

EDIT: Whoops, guess I missed some of it. Here's the rest:
9 The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

10 Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of
the law.

11 And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you
to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed.

12 The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside
the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light.

[u]13 Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in orgies and
drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy.

14 Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think
about how to gratify the desires of the sinful nature.[u]

We HAVE to remember what God is trying to say to us!

[b]Romans 14:20 Brothers, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults.

16:13 Be on your guard; stand firm in the faith; be men of courage; be
strong.

14 Do everything in love.

I should not have to explain this one.

It's funny, the apparent "message" in Dokuro-chan of "angels killing" being equal to "God loves to kill" never even occured to me until this guy mentioned it. I seriously don't think they were trying to get that message accross in any way... the show was just meant to be funny (which it is, very much so).

Maybe it's just me... but the entire idea that someone cannot enjoy a piece of fiction because they believe so strongly in some of the laws of their religion bothers me in a way that is probably illegal in some states. I went to church for many years with my parents growing up, and was open to the idea of some sort of intelligent design until I read an article detailing how ID is no different or any less arbitrary than any other belief in god. While I still strongly support many of the beliefs of christianity, I do so now for different reasons.

I find it equally sad that the moderators on that site simply bad discussion of topics they find questionable. I can completely understand why a mod would lock a topic if it errupted into a flame fest or outright ban a user based on their comments, but to simply ban the entire discussion of said show? Short-sighted and lacking in faith in the users, or just plain laziness on the mods part Rolling Eyes

; neither one is acceptable in my book. If a few users make immature actions, does that really make it right to condemn everyone to a fate that they have not earned? I don't think so. I think the site would promote its goals (of promoting a truly responsible viewing of anime) a LOT more from allowing conversation on the controversial pieces (discussing its strengths/weaknesses) and simply locking any immature posts, than from banning all discussion on the topic as a whole. Banning all discussion on an entire topic is simply contradictory to the idea of mainting a "constructive atmosphere", ever been in a class where you didn't feel comfortable raising your hand out of fear of something? If you have (and you probably have at one point), you know what I'm talking about: you are NOT comfortable adding your opinion to the discussion unless you are agreeing with someone else (reminds me of the post where Wolverine Princess pointed the guy who liked Inu Yasha and wanted a one-sided discussion to the 4kids forums).

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BTW, I like the group, and it's pretty cool that they're making anime groups for all sorts of people. And it's easy for me to say this: If you're offended by these sorts of groups, just don't visit the site. Easy as pie. Very Happy

Well, I agree that I'm glad that people are trying to overcome many of the inherent biases and to enjoy an avenue normally clad in misconception (especially among the orthodox). But, this thread is about what WE think of said group, and I strongly dislike them, maybe even to the point of hate. Especially when they seem as prone to complete deliberate misinterpretation of a show (i.e. Dokuro-chan) for the purpose of promoting their own beliefs. How hard is it to enjoy something within the context with which it is intended? I don't know about you, but when I watch Naruto, I don't think: "zomgz, I am a physicist... and that isn't possible, this is absolutely retarded. I should brutally murder or verbally harass everyone who watches this show"

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we don't evolve to maximize our lifespan, but to maximize our fitness which is how many genes we pass on, either directly or indirectly

Don't be silly, of course we didn't evolve this way. We were created as not-so-nice-people who raped and/or killed each other for enjoyment. And those lions? That's not evolution/logic at work, that's because lion babies aren't the same as human babies. A human killing human babies? Evil, to the core, they will go to hell for sure. A lion killing lion babies? A non-issue; lion babies aren't people, it only matters if a human baby is killed.

I must say though, I am more than a little surprised that Chrono Crusade isn't on that list. If I had to name any one show that fits the description of a heretic the best(heretic being someone who believes in christianity, just not the exact doctrine of christianity that the observer happens to believe in), it would be that show.

It does surprise me that such groups as the major christianity sects can attempt to claim such open-mindedness one second, and then just outright ban even discussion on certain topics the next second. I don't have a minor in religious studies, but the complete fascination I have with people's belief in things most freely admit are probably not true, has led me to take enough to classes to warrent such a degree if they offered it. Unfortunately, despite nearly 2 solid years worth of classes, and many history classes on the policies of christianity throughout the ages, I understand it no better than I did when I first started.

I think that rant on Dokuro-chan was rather ignorant. If god doesn't promote death then why is there an Angel of Death? Ever heard of the 10 plagues or Sodom and Gemora (sp?), or how about the human sacrifices in the old testament? If this guy is saying that the bible says god doesn't kill, he wasn't read enough of it. He kills for sins, and in Dokuro-chan the kid made a very big sin, he went against god's natural flow of things by making it so none of the females die of old age, so of course god will send someone to kill him.

I don't necessarily think its 'wonderful' that theres a group out there trying to promote a heavily censored selection of anime to hardline christians. I think the actual emotion is more like disinterest. I personally don't really feel some desire to go out and wildly promote anime to all who'll listen. I recommend things I like to my friends, but I genuinely don't care if group A (be it christians or truckers or feminists) does or doesn't like anime.

I think its a shame that they cannot enjoy fiction in an open way, and I find the 'book-burning' atmosphere rather scary, however, if it makes them happy, then fair enough for them.

I think worrying over whether the CAA's possible discrimination against homosexuality is also a moot point really. Going by the traditional fundamentalist christian view of homosexuality, it is a sin, and if they are going to blacklist titles for containing sins, then that seems a logical enough result. If you find them censoring anime due to its gay-ness offensive the problem isn't with them, its with the surrounding belief system.

Overall, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

Daemonblue wrote:

I think that rant on Dokuro-chan was rather ignorant. If god doesn't promote death then why is there an Angel of Death? Ever heard of the 10 plagues or Sodom and Gemora (sp?), or how about the human sacrifices in the old testament? If this guy is saying that the bible says god doesn't kill, he wasn't read enough of it. He kills for sins, and in Dokuro-chan the kid made a very big sin, he went against god's natural flow of things by making it so none of the females die of old age, so of course god will send someone to kill him.

… No offense, but this is the problem that arises when you begin to take the bible as being totally and literally true, without exceptions. By only pointing out all of the “God is love” sections of the bible, you “spin” it per-se, but that isn’t the point of the post.

I’m a member of a Christian fundamentalist group in Texas, and a pretty hardcore one at that. I can testify though, that there are quite a few people of them that buy manage and anime recently. One I know helped to fansub animes in the 90s before a lot of the major titles that we know and love (Love Hina for example) before they were even released or licensed in the United States. Heck, one of them even got me Kino’s Journey and Sakura Diaries (incest issues) for Christmas. I don’t think that many of them condemn anime outright, but it’s simply a non-issue of types. People don’t particularly discuss it in the open, especially not in a religious context.

But nevermind that. What they are trying to say on this site is that the listed anime, and others that aren’t specifically mentioned shouldn’t be BANNED, but that they are simply banned for discussion on that site due to their explicit, controversial, and heretical content. It’s similar to giving a disclaimer, like:

- “The anime that is given in this list is advised not to be watched by believers, given that it contains content of a heretical nature that is in conflict with the established view of this site”

There are a great deal of anime that can be added to the list, but due to it being a little under the radar, such as Koi Kaze, Chrno Crusade (although it IS on television now), Scrapped Princess (MAJOR religious overtones), and many other animes as well, but these are the only ones that I’ve seen that I can think of off the top of my head. I think they don’t add many of the animes on this list simply because if they really tried to, then the list would be FAR too long to be able to be used for a quick reference, so they simply added the most controversial and visable titles tot the list.

Also, you really can’t portray all Christians as being “fire and brimstone” evangelical fundamentalists. I’ve watched anime seriously since I was six years old, including many controversial titles. Yes, I’ve watched yaoi, but I didn’t inhale, and I passed out about 3 minutes after the opening credits. I intend on looking up a few yuri titles this year based on a discussion that I had at a con this summer. The difference is that I watch them as a mode for entertainment. I love anime (I’m a bit of a degenerate), and as long as you know what you are getting into, then you can use your own discretion about it.

selenta wrote:

Maybe it's just me... but the entire idea that someone cannot enjoy a piece of fiction because they believe so strongly in some of the laws of their religion bothers me in a way that is probably illegal in some states.

You jumped the gun and missed the point. And yet, there's about 3 more paragraphs of this in your post.

Those series were banned from forum discussion because they were flame-starters. The fact is, the reviews on the site are guidelines for steering away from series that might offend you. The reviewers don't take any authority on deciding what you may and may not watch. Plenty of series that I would normally think to get a bad review end up with decent ratings. Hellsing got an 8/10, which totally caught me off guard Shocked

.

This forum isn't the only forum on the internet that bans questionable topics, it's just discretion to stay friendly to their demographic, and you have a huge problem with that?

If you ask me their list simply isn't long enough.

I think we should enter the forums and bring up topics such as 'Omg i love Agent Aika' or 'Why has Cream Lemon not been licensed yet'.

Area88 wrote:

If you ask me their list simply isn't long enough.

I think we should enter the forums and bring up topics such as 'Omg i love Agent Aika' or 'Why has Cream Lemon not been licensed yet'.

I say we leave them alone.

cheezisgoooood wrote:

I say we leave them alone.

Btw i was only joking. I should have put (sarchasm) to make it obvious.

I agree, tormenting is wrong.

It quite annoys me that these people miss their own religion's point completely.

Many scholars of the Bible agreed to the interpretation that homosexuality is not the prime crime in which the destruction of Sodom and Gomorra was brought in the tale; rather, that they forced visitors to engage in sexual activities against their wills--a sin by most people's, Christian or not, perspective. It's also interesting as many other ancient religions also had similar misgivings: Zeus, the most powerful God in the ancient Greek religion, was a protector of guests, for example. The misconception of fundamentalists is as foolish as the old misconception of "Jews killed Jesus," which sadly brought so much in terms of pain, prejudice, atrocities, and terror, to the people who bear the ethnic entity. The infamous genocide the Holocaust was simply a product of centuries-old bigotry, in extreme.

The gist of Christianity was a pacifist one: it was a sect that was an outgrowth of the subjugation of the Jewish people by the powerful Roman Empire. The old Jewish religion was a more-or-less recognizable one for ancient religions, except for the major difference in its monotheism (which was the cause of many animosities between ancient Jews and their neighbors, as the usual ancient practice of adopting different religions' gods to each other, especially in cases of political upheaval, to smoothen the discrepancies of the peoples' different beliefs, were not applicable to the "intolerant" (and I use this word loosely) Jews). However, the Roman conquest was something that simply wasn't reversible by political means--it is only natural that there would arise many sects opposed to the Orthodox Jewish religion and its standing system (why do you think the Pharisees stand so prominently in the New Testament?) and varying means of interpreting the old religion anew, and many advocated reconciliation with the ruling Romans, though superficially so. There's a clear difference in terms of assertiveness of God in the Testaments for a reason. Your fundamental beliefs are supposed to be (ad infinitum?) Love Thy Neighbor and Love Thy God as opposed to Hate Homosexuals and Hate Science/Reason.

What else, a banning of shows that use Christian symbolism for offending their religious views display a certain lack of understanding of the Japanese perspective: theirs is a nation with a very small Christian minority; Christianity is simply a cool and foreign thing, as opposed to something rooted in society as, say the United States. Their addition is almost like the J-pop addition of English phrases at key points, which are amusing from our perspective, as well (Even Haruhi's "on the lonely raaaail" or "futari ni God Bless" are really quite awkwardly funny). To take it as offense is quite naive and very sensitive of them.

Or maybe they already know that but still find that offensive? Confused

I can understand where they come from in terms of trying to reconcile their entertainment with their religious beliefs (it's much better than the age in which Robinson Crusoe was forced to mark itself as a real story instead of fiction to avoid a de-facto Inquisition anyway) but they could at least gain a better understanding of something so fundamental to themselves. We secular infidels sometimes know the Bible much better than them!

I'm wondering when homosexuality became an issue in this topic.

It became a toppic since most of the anime on their banned to discuss list has homosexuality.

Samurai-with-glasses wrote:

It quite annoys me that these people miss their own religion's point completely.

It quite annoys me that many people in this thread don't realize why these series were actually "banned" and then make broad generalizations about Christianity.

ProfessorTaishi wrote:

There are a great deal of anime that can be added to the list, but due to it being a little under the radar, such as Koi Kaze, Chrno Crusade (although it IS on television now), Scrapped Princess (MAJOR religious overtones),

Koi Kaze hasn't been reviewed, but Chrono Crusade got a 17+ rating with an overall rating of 7/10. "Bad religion" was an 8/10 but everything else was only slightly lower with "violence" a 7/10 and nudity and sex both a 6/10. They summed it up with

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"Overall I found this to be a good action anime with an interesting plotline. However, this anime is definitely not for everyone. The fan-service and violence will turn some people off automatically, and others will likely be deterred by the slap-stick humor in the first eight episodes. The religious issues in this anime are severe, with several of the Demonic characters openly blaspheming God, and with deep-rooted religious themes that are a twisted version Christianity. The writers of this anime seem to have had a basic understanding of the Christian faith, but they mixed it with liberal amounts of Buddhism and other eastern religions. This makes Chrono Crusade something to avoid if you do not have a good knowledge of Christianity or if you are disturbed by the messed-up version of Christianity typical in anime."

Scrapped Princess was rated 13+ with 8/10 overall 4/10 for "bad religion". The reviewer stated that the series became one of their favorites.

Dokuro-chan (which was discussed above) got a 4/10 (as opposed to Ninja Scroll's 0/10) in the review, so I assume that all the verses and stuff came from a thread.

Neon Genesis Evangelion, despite being banned for discussion, was rated 18+ (understandable) and was rated 8/10 overall.

Since people were curious what they would think, Hellsing got an 8/10 overall with 9/10 for violence and 7/10 for "bad religion"

Note: Overall rating is a grade for the series, not an overall rating for bad content. Ninja Scroll maxed out most of the bad content but got a 0/10.

I really don't think personal hatred of the series for religious reasons is the issue here.

HitokiriShadow wrote:

It quite annoys me that many people in this thread don't realize why these series were actually "banned" and then make broad generalizations about Christianity.

Hello.

I'm not talking about the banned list: I've scouted the site and the moderators said (nay, written) it's to stop the flamewars, not due to inherent bias on their side. I'm talking about those flaming fundamentalists on the site who argue against everything that differs from their twisted version of Christianity. And what broad generalizations had I painted so carelessly, anyway?

I'm sorry for not making myself clear.

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