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Anime in Ultra HD at either 4K/8K resolution in the future?


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Polycell



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:40 am Reply with quote
One-Eye wrote:
I had read previously that something like 40-50% of movie theaters in the US use 4K HD projectors, so it does seem to growing within the entertainment industry.
It's also a completely different technology - the extra resolution there is needed to fully replace 35mm film.
Quote:
Broadcasters are a different story and they may not see an incentive to go to 4K and then there is bandwidth considerations which is something that I think might really hold things back.
There's certainly little doubt about this - the FCC banned MUSE over bandwidth concerns, forcing the US to wait until the digital era to get HDTV. It really depends on how much compression technology advances - h.265's goal of halving the needed bitrate over h.264 will probably work for switched digital cable, but that'd still involve doubling the bandwidth needed, which would probably cause the FCC to throw another one of its progress-halting hisseyfits.
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Mesonoxian Eve



Joined: 10 Jan 2012
Posts: 1858
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:03 am Reply with quote
walw6pK4Alo wrote:
Bandwidth constraints in the US barely allows 720p and 1080i as it is, there's no way TV companies will be able to provide anything greater without undue cost to their subscribers.

This is a fallacy. US broadband is more than sufficient to handle 1080 without problems.

The bottleneck comes from ISPs, as the 6 largest all practice throttling and absolutely refuse to use CDNs by the two biggest reasons for internet traffic: YouTube and Netflix, which accounts for nearly 70% of all internet traffic in the US, especially at peak times.

This has been an ongoing problem in that ISPs want to charge people based on usage, similar to how utilities work, but the FCC hasn't defined the internet traffic as a utility and has no plans to.

So while the rest of the world gets the benefit of faster broadband, ISPs throttle traffic and pretend there's a problem when they're purposely taking no action to remove the bottlenecks.
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FLEABttn



Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 106
Location: ABQ
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:42 am Reply with quote
Mesonoxian Eve wrote:
walw6pK4Alo wrote:
Bandwidth constraints in the US barely allows 720p and 1080i as it is, there's no way TV companies will be able to provide anything greater without undue cost to their subscribers.

This is a fallacy. US broadband is more than sufficient to handle 1080 without problems.


He's not talking about internet speeds and caps.

Virtually every single cable, satellite, and IPTV provider reduces bitrate and/or the horizontal resolution of their video feeds because they lack the overall bandwith (in a signals processing sense) to provide to their customers TV that's uncompressed and the original resolution. Bandwidth (and the lack thereof) is why TV is 720p or 1080i and not 1080p. Mainstream 4k and 8k are out of the question until h265 becomes a real, tangible thing in the consumer space and infrastructure problems are solved. 1080p content is hardly mainstream unless you are particularly into blu-rays or Netflix/YouTube/Amazon VOD (the latter of which have bitrate issues).

There are also very real issues that at a normal TV viewing distance, people with perfect vision aren't going to be able to tell the difference between 1080p and 4k. Someone with 20/20 vision at 9 feet with a 60 inch TV isn't going to benefit from 4k unless they get a couple feet closer, but at that point you're reaching an uncomfortable viewing distance.
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6253
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:29 pm Reply with quote
One-Eye wrote:

Quote:
If the price doesn't fall quickly, 4k is going to take at least a decade, if not more, to be welcomed in the US, and that's a blow if the world's leading entertainment industry doesn't adopt it as a "standard".
I had read previously that something like 40-50% of movie theaters in the US use 4K HD projectors, so it does seem to growing within the entertainment industry. Broadcasters are a different story and they may not see an incentive to go to 4K and then there is bandwidth considerations which is something that I think might really hold things back. But if Sony is recording even tv shows in 4K then there might be content to be purchased in some kind of format.

EricJ wrote:
Mesonoxian Eve wrote:

It may gain more traction in Japan than it will in the US, as I've read several statements from entertainment executives which aren't going to support 4k broadcasts in the US until there's substantial demand from the public, and that's going to be iffy.
Like the birth of HDTV, Japan would have to get a LOT more obsessed with 4K than we are right now.
That's not realisticallyi out of the realm of possibility Rolling Eyes , but somehow, I just keep picturing even THEIR finding it too pointless to pursue.

4K-Mania of the Future is an artificial construct, being pursued by a superstitious industry that just doesn't know how this whole darn thing works.
I did read somewhere that NHK in Japan is pushing for 8K broadcasting as early as the 2020 Tokyo Olympics.


One-eye is correct, there are theaters in the US that are already playing movies at 4K resolution, an article stated this. I wouldn't be surprised if IMAX started using 4K projectors for their movies already.

Also about getting 8K ready, well here's 2 article that might interest you:

Hollywood Reporter-8K Broadcast Planned For Tokyo 2020 Olympics

TVNewscheck-Broadcasting in 8K could start in 2020

There's an interesting article that debate about should we go beyond HD:

International Broadcasters Convention: DO we really need to go beyond HD?

Anyway, this is a good discussion, keep em coming folks. I like the debate on anime going beyond 1080P. Very Happy
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Polycell



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:37 pm Reply with quote
mdo7 wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if IMAX started using 4K projectors for their movies already.
While they have(two of them per screen), it's a downgrade from the 70mm film used in the analog version.
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6253
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:02 pm Reply with quote
Polycell wrote:
mdo7 wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if IMAX started using 4K projectors for their movies already.
While they have(two of them per screen), it's a downgrade from the 70mm film used in the analog version.


Interesting. Anime smallmouth
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Vracer111



Joined: 28 Jan 2010
Posts: 194
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:29 pm Reply with quote
FLEABttn wrote:
There are also very real issues that at a normal TV viewing distance, people with perfect vision aren't going to be able to tell the difference between 1080p and 4k. Someone with 20/20 vision at 9 feet with a 60 inch TV isn't going to benefit from 4k unless they get a couple feet closer, but at that point you're reaching an uncomfortable viewing distance.


And same thing for 4K cinema projection and 1080p projection at home - there is zero difference in presentation of a properly setup home system with a 110"-120" screen and a 4K cinema system. The HD trailer for Pacific Rim (and I mean the real HD trailer with 5.1 HD audio that is ~800 MB) on my system actually looked a little better with more detail/color than the movie did at the cinema, and it was a crystal clear well done viewing in the cinema. I had a 43" 720p plasma display that looked every bit as impressive in sharpness and line detail as my 1080p projector on a 110" screen from the same viewing distance, just way too small of an image in comparison.

If you have a 60" display, less than 7' would be the ideal viewing distance: 9' is not nearly close enough. Most people sit way too far away from their displays. If you went to the movie theaters it would be like sitting in the hallway between theater rooms to watch a movie how most people's view distance is at home. Viewing distance should roughly be 1-1/2 times the WIDTH of the display (not diagonal). Theoretically 12' is the ideal distance for my viewing, but it's not close enough: ~9' is where it's most comfortable to view.
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