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NEWS: Ursula K. Le Guin on Gedo Senki


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Sydney2K



Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 219
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 6:59 am Reply with quote
Tako wrote:
I have to say I can see where she's coming from...her books would be almost impossible to make into a movie as she wrote them, and I think Hayao Miyazaki is one of very few directors who would even have had a chance of doing it.

Sorry, but if one wanted a faithful adaptation of a book, the last anime director you would ask is Hayao Miyazaki. He has his own agenda with source material, and he'll change the original story to fit what he wants to say. At least Goro Miyazaki said that he had an emotional connexion to the novels.

I feel that Ursula LeGuin damned the film with faint praise. She says that the skin colour issue as depicted by the film as symptomatic to a general Japanese visual perception that she can't explain, and so she can't comment fairly. Had the film been done by a Western director with exactly the same graphics and plot she would be a lot more biting, IMHO.

Widya Santoso
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Raja



Joined: 30 Jul 2003
Posts: 68
Location: Tottori
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:27 am Reply with quote
Amusing/saddening aside: Some company looking to make a quick yen is releasing the SciFi channel adaptation on DVD in Japan, under the title "Ged". I saw a commercial for it the last time I was in Tsutaya, and I groaned. I had to explain to my co-workers why they shouldn't get it...
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wilson_x1999



Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 182
Location: Monterrey, Mexico
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:18 am Reply with quote
Every creator has a very deep connection with their work, so it's usually very hard to please them.

I think that even if Mrs. Le Guin had co-directed every single step in the movie, from story to sound, she would still complain about the smallest detail :S

But in any way, the movie is gonna bring her books lots of new fans, so she can still be happy that people will get the story as she wanted to be told.
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hikaru004



Joined: 15 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:18 pm Reply with quote
In retrospect, Hayao Miyazaki escaped some potentially bad press if he did it and the skin color issue came up like it did on this version.
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bob_loblaw



Joined: 14 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:46 pm Reply with quote
I didn't perceive Le Guin's comments as anything but diplomatic. She could've really railed on [Goro] Miyazaki. But she didn't. She praised and critiqued. Very few authors or even critics are even capable of that.

Also, we only have printed words, and not the context or feeling behind them that we'd need to truly know what both parties truly felt.

Yeah. I'm giving Le Guin the benefit of a doubt here. I can't really put myself in HER shoes. I don't know what it's like to write a world-reknown, fantasy epic that has been in print for over three decades. Or what would be going through my head, if I were watching someone else adapt characters I had dedicated much of my life to shaping and honing. I'm sure its a weird feeling and she even described it as making it difficult to follow Ghibli's film.

Although I have not seen the movie yet, the trailers left me a touch disappointed that Ged nearly looked like just about every other Ghibli male-lead that preceded him. I was hoping that Ghibli and Goro would try surprise me, and try to adapt Ged's look to the novel's as closely as possible. Y'know? A "Nadia-like" dash of color. Would that have been too much to hope for?

And the decision wouldn't even have to have any racial undertones, unless some viewers chose to add them or look for 'em. I'd just see it as "this lead character has a red/brown complexion". End of story.

But this won't stop me from giving the movie a shot. I am a fan of the Earthsea series. Although, it's been well over a decade since I've read them.
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hikaru004



Joined: 15 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:39 am Reply with quote
Then they prob should have not chosen Ghibli in the first place. You can't expect too many changes to their style. The audience expects a certain thing when they go in and if they don't get it you get a controversy like this. Mad critics and mad parents complaining to the media. I haven't seen any dark characters in Ghibli on the order of Nadia and won't be expecting it.

I'm still trying to understand the color issue here. If the rest of the parts about the character is close, why nitpick about the shade of tan? At the end of the day, the average moviegoer won't care one bit.

Personally, I think that this needs to be put in perspective. In my opinion, Earthsea series was lucky to get an anime treatment in the first place, let alone by Studio Ghibli. (Come on guys. This is no Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings or Star Wars.) The animation may convince some people to read the novels.
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grooven



Joined: 16 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:45 am Reply with quote
Well I just figured out how to join ^-^" had to say my two cents worth

I have read the books of Earthsea and actually went to see the movie on the 29th of July. Having read the books few years ago my memeory of them was very weak. So some parts I was like oooh yeah, having read them.

I enjoyed the movie quite well. I loved the music and wished I bought the sound track. I agree there were some flaws with characters and other bits but it flowed much better than what I expected from Howl (having read the book before hand). Even with the weird timelines of characters and how they were placed together was still bearable.

I can understand what the author feels. Having your work produced and having to creative say in it, but yet you sign for it. Nt only having it produced in live action and animated form not to how you expected it to turn out like. I don't think she tore it apart. She was explaining what it was lacking. If anything it is the best review to read to get an idea what the creator wanted to see and what she expected.

Overall I don't see the big deal. She didn't hate it. She could have been more brutal. But she explained it well as to what she thought.

Anyway it's a good movie despite it isn't what the author would have liked it to be. I see them as separete items one a movie and one using the story elements of the book.
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Masokick



Joined: 26 Mar 2006
Posts: 1
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:31 am Reply with quote
hikaru004 wrote:
I'm still trying to understand the color issue here. If the rest of the parts about the character is close, why nitpick about the shade of tan?.... This is no Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings or Star Wars.) The animation may convince some people to read the novels.


The colour issue is very important to the author, and if you read her books closely, she is careful to describe how all the major characters look, and with the exception of Tenar, none of them are lily-white. Being the only white woman on Gont is an integral part of Tenar's experiences. It's not just "a few shades of tan", Earthsea is comprised of many different races.

This is why it matters to the author:
"I have received letters that broke my heart, from adolescents of color in this country and in England, telling me that when they realized that Ged and the other Archipelagans in the Earthsea books are not white people, they felt included in the world of literary and movie fantasy for the first time."
Source: http://www.infinitematrix.net/faq/essays/noles.html

About the Harry Potter comment... the Earthsea books are important literature, covering adult issues. Harry Potter may be more widely-read, but HP is nowhere near the writing level and skill of Earthsea. You can't compare them.
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DragonsRevenge



Joined: 15 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 9:59 am Reply with quote
It's an honest mistake, really. All the best Fantasy authors are from england. It's only fair to assume that She would be, too.
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Peter Ahlstrom



Joined: 06 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 11:40 am Reply with quote
...ouch. That hurts!
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mako



Joined: 14 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:21 pm Reply with quote
In one of the Japanese message boards that I check every day, I read something interesting. Well, "interesting" isn't really the right word. It's more like something that bothers me.

According to this message, Mr. Suzuki said in his interview that they told Ms. Le Guin that Director Hayao was getting old for animating her work, but their young staff was enthusiastic about it. (It sounded like they didn’t tell her that Director Hayao was retiring or anything like that.)

Also, (this part wasn’t totally clear, but I think I understood it right...) according to the interview, they also told her that they were going to make the movie mainly based on Vol. 3. When they told her that, she said something like since Ged is middle-aged in Vol. 3, there shouldn’t be a problem for Director Hayao directing the movie.

Now, please note that I don’t know exactly how Ms. Le Guin phrased everything. I translated what was said in Japanese language in the interview article, which I read in a message board. (not to mention, my English isn’t perfect.)

I don’t know when this article was published in which magazine/newspaper/etc. (I tried googling, but no luck.) But it’s hard to think that this story is made up. It's very unfortunate that there was a big misunderstanding between Ghibli side and Ms. Le Guin.
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warewarewa



Joined: 17 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:56 am Reply with quote
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Gauss



Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 519
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 5:54 am Reply with quote
hikaru004 wrote:
What the heck is her beef about skin color and who appointed her a spokesperson for realistic minority representation in anime? I could tell Ghibli 'Caucasian" from Ghibli "Asian" in Ocean Waves. Some characters in the promo were shown with more of a tan than others.

I just don't get it.

You fail at basic reading comprehension. She quite clearly acknowledges that unlike the US TV "adaptation", the issue of skin coloring is not as clear cut in Gedo Senki. If anything, much of that paragraph seems to be a general response to a flood of letters by people who, unlike LeGuin, do think they are a "spokesperson for realistic minority representation in anime" as you so charmingly put it.

The reason that this is a particularly sore point among fans is the recent white-washing done in the US TV "adaptation". When LeGuin began writing the Earthsea saga 99.9% of every fantasy hero was white (and this was as late as 1968!). So she set out to write a book that would remove that peculiar blind spot. In the book she wrote it isn't actually revealed until halfway through, and in an offhand manner, that Ged is not white (more like Polynesian). Just like that, without being preachy, she pointed out a major presumption bordering on unthinking prejudice in both readers and writers of fantasy at the time.

The reaction among non-white fantasy readers was huge because the significance wasn't lost on them. They were later sorely disappointed by the TV fiasco. It's hardly surprising that people would then pay particular attention to that aspect of this movie. Hardly any less surprising that LeGuin would feel compelled to say something about it.
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Twage



Joined: 29 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 2:28 am Reply with quote
I saw Gedo Senki last month, and Le Guin is completely right about the film.

The short version: Ghibli has played loose with adaptations in the past, but (with the exception of Howl) they have all turned out wonderfully regardless. Gedo is not an excellent film. It's nowhere near the level of every single film Takahata and Miyazaki have made at Ghibli. It reminded me far too much of The Black Cauldron and other cliched animated films in this genre.

About her comments:

Quote:
At that time, work had already started on the film: a copy of the poster of the child and the dragon was given us as a gift, and also a sketch of Hort Town by Mr Hayao and the finished version of it from the studio artists.


Apparently these were two of the earliest concept drawings on the film. Goro mentioned the Hort Town drawing as one of the only things his father contributed, and a major inspiration for the overall look of the film. I believe but am not sure that some of the drawing is on this poster.

The dragon and child drawing is on the official poster, and it was apparantly drawn entirely by Goro. Toshio Suzuki says that when Hayao was fuming about Goro's lack of artistic ability he showed Hayao this drawing, and told Hayao he liked it and that the studio would use it on a poster. That shut Hayao up real fast, because, according to Suzuki, Hayao Miyazaki never draws in profile.

Quote:
I am told that Mr Hayao has not retired after all, but is now making another movie. This has increased my disappointment. I hope to put it behind me.


She has every right to be angry about this, and I think her response has been extremely restrained. Basically, she was led to believe that Hayao Miyazaki would be creating a new story in her fantasy world without touching her novels. Then she was told that Hayao was retiring and a new director would do the film. Then she heard that it would be an adaptation of a book after all. Finally, after the movie is made, she hears that Hayao Miyazaki is not actually retiring.

Generously, circumstances changed. But in fact it would be fair to say Ghibli simply lied to her, multiple times. She trusted them, and they betrayed her trust. I would be fuming if it were my work. But she's a very wise woman not given to temper.

Also, note that the only reason she aired her comments in public was because Goro revealed her private comment to him on his blog:

Quote:
I did not realise that I was speaking to anyone but him and the few people around us. I would have preferred that a private reply to a private question not be made public. I mention it here only because Mr Goro has mentioned it in his blog.


Now the real juicy stuff.

Quote:
Much of it was beautiful.


True. The dragon scenes were wonderful, as were the palaces and Hort Town.

Quote:
Many corners were cut, however, in the animation of this quickly made film.


Also true. The final scenes include the gradual destruction of a castle tower. It is obvious which bricks are going to fall as they are inked in single shade and stand out from the background. This kind of thing happens many times throughout. It's the kind of quickie trick you'd expect from an episode of Duck Tales, not a feature film from the makers of Spirited Away.

Quote:
It does not have the delicate accuracy of "Totoro" or the powerful and splendid richness of detail of "Spirited Away." The imagery is effective but often conventional.


Yes. I have not read The Farthest Shore, but from what I've heard the ending of that book is far more magical, surreal and meaningful than the film's ending, which is a very basic rehash of the climactic sword fight from every other sword 'n' sorcery animated film every made.

Quote:
Much of it was, I thought, incoherent. This may be because I kept trying to find and follow the story of my books while watching an entirely different story, confusingly enacted by people with the same names as in my story, but with entirely different temperaments, histories, and destinies.


This is the one point where I will disagree with LeGuin. The film was perfectly coherent. But she fairly writes this off to her being the author of the book.

Quote:
I think the film's "messages" seem a bit heavyhanded because, although often quoted quite closely from the books, the statements about life and death, the balance, etc., don't follow from character and action as they do in the books. However well meant, they aren't implicit in the story and the characters. They have not been "earned."


Absolutely right. The film has been pared down into a skeleton plot on which are hung these messages in dialogue. The murder of the king at the beginning by Arren is squandered, as not much is done with it other than to give Arren a reason to be a nervous wreck, which Le Guin also catches on to:

Quote:
Arren's murder of his father in the film is unmotivated, arbitrary.


But here's the most interesting comment:

Quote:
But in the film, evil has been comfortably externalized in a villain, the wizard Kumo/Cob, who can simply be killed, thus solving all problems.

In modern fantasy (literary or governmental), killing people is the usual solution to the so-called war between good and evil. My books are not conceived in terms of such a war, and offer no simple answers to simplistic questions.


This is interesting because it's precisely that complex view of good and evil that drew me to Ghibli in the first place with Princess Mononoke. Killing the gods is not the answer. Killing Eboshi is not the answer (and she is not an embodiment of evil-- not a villain, though she may be an antagonist). There is no easy way out in Miyazaki the elder's films. Which just makes Goro's butchering of Earthsea all the more tragic.

Quote:
Though I think the dragons of my Earthsea are more beautiful, I admire the noble way Goro's dragons fold their wings. The animals of his imagination are seen with much tenderness — I liked the horse-llama's expressive ears. I very much liked the scenes of plowing, drawing water, stabling the animals, and so on, which give the film an earthy and practical calmness — a wise change of pace from constant conflict and "action". In them, at least, I recognised my Earthsea.


Yes, the domestic scenes were some of the best and most appealing in the film, recalling the joy with which Ghibli once animated normal families experiencing normal family life.

About Le Guin's comments to Goro: There's a rule in the theater. On opening night, everyone did a great job. It doesn't matter if you think they butchered the character and made every scene they appeared in look like a community theater production of Paul Simon. They did a great job, because they put themselves on the line. And I imagine it's the same kind of situation when a first-time director is presenting his adaptation of a book to one of the most loved (and intimidatingly so) fantasy authors in the world. If she had said, "Meh, wasn't so good," that would have been infinitely ruder from my point of view. And Goro Miyazaki, as a Japanese man, probably understands that better than most Americans do.

Kouji wrote:
As for her complaints about the animation, come on Le Guin, this is anime. Companies taking shortcuts in the animation is one of anime's trademarks. That should almost be expected in anime movies.


It's not one of Ghibli's trademarks. There were shortcuts in this film that I haven't seen in any Ghibli film made since at least the late 80s, possibly ever.

hikaru004 wrote:
Personally, I think that this needs to be put in perspective. In my opinion, Earthsea series was lucky to get an anime treatment in the first place, let alone by Studio Ghibli. (Come on guys. This is no Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings or Star Wars.)


Yes, who does this aging world-class author with an oeuvre of subtle and philosophical works think she is? She should stop getting uppity and be thankful for whatever she gets. It's not like the books speak for themselves or something. We must have a movie! Rolling Eyes
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MorwenLaicoriel



Joined: 26 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 4:53 am Reply with quote
If I can toss in my two cents here...I'm a Miyazaki fan (that is, Hayao--I haven't seen Gedo Senki yet, so I can't say if I'm a fan of his son yet), a fantasy fan, and a hopeful fantasy novelist...and....I kind of agree with BOTH sides.

You definately can't expect an adaptation of anything to be exactly like the original--otherwise, why make an adaption in the first place? This isn't just book-to-movie adaptions...it's also movie-to-book adaptions, for example. (Have you ever read a novelisation of a movie? You know how they're generally very dull? I think it's because they're just like the movie, only with the occational 'He said" thrown in.) Not even just with books involved...video games based on movies are KNOWN for being bad, and vice-versa. Adaptions are tough in general. I think Le Guin knows this, but, she was hoping for at least a decent adaptation, and, well, was disappointed.

I don't know if Miyazaki lied to her, or if it was simply a misunderstanding between cultures and language barriers--but I understand why she's upset. She thought Hayao-san (Hayao-sensei? Miyazaki, Sr?) would be working on the film. He didn't. She thought it was because he was retiring. He's not. (I don't think he'll EVER retire, actually, unless he gets some sort of illness that completely keeps him away from working...) I have a feeling that it was a mistake on the translator's part or she misunderstood, but regardless, what she thought was going to happen DIDN'T happen. That'd make anyone mad, particularly when what's involved is something you've spent YEARS writing. I haven't even published a book yet, and I *already* feel like an overprotective mother with my ideas for books...

And I understand the race thing, too. In one book idea I have, one of the badguys is a blond, blue eyed woman. I did because I wanted it to show that people who seem angelic. (On that note, the main hero of the book is blond with blue eyes as well.)

Now on the other side of the coin--poor Goro! I don't think Le Guin is being horribly rude or mean to him, just being honest, but it must be AWFUL for him right now. This movie is his first movie, and I wouldn't be surprised if he feels the same way about his movie as Le Guin feels about her books. Even if nobody's being horribly harsh to him (although I respectfully think that Hayao Miyazaki should be a little more supportive of his son--after all, it sounds like it was partially his idea that Goro try to direct something!), it still must feel awful to have so many detractors to the movie. I haven't seen it yet, and I have a feeling that I might be disappointed with it, but regardless--he's got guts, and he's respectfully giving it his all. Go Goro!
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