Forum - View topicNEWS: 4Kids Profit Falls Again
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Steventheeunuch
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hurrr
Just to confirm, the previous episodes were animated by Toei and constituted as a different license or some such. Either way, there was no point in actually picking them up. Think of it as like, I dunno, it's the first episode of a second series, sort of how you dont need to watch all of the original dragonball to get the first episode of Z or something stupid.
It's not far from it man.
No, you don't.
You're kind of missing the point of the thread and not contributing anything worthwhile that hasn't already been said HUNDREDS of times, so do you mind keeping it to youself? |
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tidusora
Posts: 65 |
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Erm, exactly, I stated Speed Racer, and you managed to say no. Actually, it is not true, that Speed Racer is a small example. It happened to play a very big factor along with Astro Boy in the anime industry, well, here in America.
Sailor Moon actually was big, before airing on Cartoon Network. It aired 1995, as I remember it airing in UPN or Fox, not sure, but I remember it was in public channels. Sailor Moon was big, along with Samurai Pizza Cats.
Name which places DBZ aired. I only remember it airing in Kids WB for a short run, and Cartoon Network permanently. DBZ came to Toonami in '98, but airied in CN in '96.
Sailor Moon, obviously. Speed Racer. After all, Pokemon was after those masterpieces like Sailor Moon, Speed Racer, Battle of the Planets, Robotech, etc.
Erm..4Kids introduced these shows into public television for it to be mainstream, and for everyone to watch. After all, Pokemon had become a hit after launching. Of course, it's obvious that Akira and Ghost in the Shell are not children'ts films.
Of course, the majority of 4kids titles are far more superior than One Piece, because of the failure of the dub. But they're almost never decent.
Agreed, Fighting Foodons is a horrible show, whether licensed or not, in my opinion.
Did I state in my post that it was an anime company? IF they could give a rat's arse, then why bother licensing it. They're only going to be a dissapointment to anime. After all, if they're a children entertainment company, why change a show with weapons, and violence, to a child-oriented show. *cough*OnePiece*cough* It's like changing Gantz, to make it, a child-oriented show, and you know that can never happen. Instead of licensing anime, why don't they just stick to producing american cartoons? Why get anime, and make them even worse, with the exception of Ultimate Muscle. |
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Steventheeunuch
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One of the incentives of licensing Anime is that its technically a much safer investment. Sure, you have to edit things out, but all of the creative content is basically made for you (all you have to do is adapt and voice it), all of the merchandising has been worked out, and it helps to keep relations with those companies once they make more things to license out. The big difference between One Piece and Gantz is that Gantz is essentially an Adult/older teens show, whereas One Piece is a family/Children's show. Gantz also doesnt have the length nor marketability that One Piece did/does/have. You'll notice that 4Kids aren't always in Anime, and apparently have made it known they'll be moving out (as I've said before, I think, or whatever) of Anime licensing to focus on what could be more profitable locally produced media. |
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Shinotaku14
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 233 Location: Greenville or Rock Hill, SC |
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Well, basically because it requires less effort on their part. In some cases it is actually much cheaper for them to license and redub rather than make stuff anew. Plus, if you get the right shows, i.e. Yugioh, Pokemon or Naruto, it can be quite lucrative as well. |
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tidusora
Posts: 65 |
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Wrong, Wrong. One Piece, is not a family, children's show. It's more like older children/teen. Are you saying that blood, guns, and slashing are children's show? Although, Gantz may have a bit more graphical features, they're only different in ways. One Piece has a lot of length, but why must 4kids get it? A more sufficient company could handly this, and it's Funimation, a very well-liked company, that not only handles anime, but TV shows. Just go to their website an check. I notice that 4kids isn't always in anime. What bothers me, is why TMNT can have weaponry, and possibly blood, but One Piece can't. |
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Steventheeunuch
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Yes, I am. What you need to remember is that standards of Japanese TV programming are somewhat more lax compared to the US (it's a tradeoff kinda thing, they have uncut detective conan as a family show, but I can call my boss by his first name). Hence WHY the editing occours, to make it appropriate for the same age in a different culture. It;s aired at a 6 oclock or so timeslot with things like Dragonball, Pokemon, Yugioh, Zoids, Gundam, Transformers, all shows meant to sell toys to children in one way or another. Gantz, on the other hand, ran edited as opposed to what you seen on the DVDs, at a midnight time slot. THAT is for older teens show. It's a show meant for DVD sales and whatever else. There's the difference.
4Kids got it because- 1. Toei charged a lot of money for it. 2. Toei wants the show to succeed with the same crowd that it does in Japan, that being children. 3. 4Kids have done that, as they've handled Yugioh and Pokemon, aswell as other things. They're a very likely candidate. 4. 4Kids contact Toei, and pay the money and negotiate the contracts. If Toei wanted the show to be aimed at a 'higher' audience, they wouldn't have let 4Kids do what they do, which is make programming for children. What people fail to realise is that just because it's a show for children, doesn't mean only children have to watch it. ****
Because different people handle those properties, despite being the same company. TMNT also has to go through less people than One Piece would. **** To add, because it's probably being read right now, it wouldn't have suprised me if FUNimation did approach Toei about obtaining rights to One Piece, since they did so very well with Dragon Ball Z. However, there may have been things standing in their way (IE specific requirements FUNimation wouldn't agree to, 4Kids offering more money, other options etc) that prevented this from occouring which we won't know about well... ever. Last edited by Steventheeunuch on Tue Aug 15, 2006 2:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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coldspider
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*raises hand* I did.In fact,I was a big fan of Akira and Ghost in the Shell as well,and I also owned both VHS tapes by middle school. I discovered Pokemon later on around my first year of High School.Before I knew it,I found myself sucked into it's own little world.Big fan of the Pokemon seires 'til this day. |
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Wyvern
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[quote="tidusora"]
Name which places DBZ aired. I only remember it airing in Kids WB for a short run, and Cartoon Network permanently. DBZ came to Toonami in '98, but airied in CN in '96. Before Toonami, DBZ aired in syndication, so putting together a list of places it ran would take forever. It never aired on Kids WB proper, though it probably aired on several KWB local affiliates. It usually got stuck in a crappy timeslot (5:30 AM on Saturdays where I lived) which of course severely limited it audiance. Only when Toonami picked up reruns of the old dub (which by that point were 2 or 3 years old) did it become popular, since it was finally in a timeslot where more people could see it. Ironically, by then Saban had already written the show off as a failure and sold it to FUNimation on the cheap. FUNi dubbed the remaining episodes and went on to make acres of money. Meanwhile, Saban was bought out by Disney and ceased to exist. |
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jsyxx
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Well whatever you're argument is they fucked up bad with One Piece, or it wouldn't have been such a flop. Maybe they just fucked up by even licensing it if "other factors" were involved in the market.
Perhaps Pokemon did help anime a lot. Personally for me my obssession was sparked Cartoon Network circa the Tenchi Muyo/Gundam Wing/DBZ era also video rental places carrying anime at the same time, but I imagine a percentage of fans came out of there. The rest of mainstream America has moved on to other crap, so how big Pokemon was back then does little for us now. But whatever it seems 4Kids' time in the sun is over and they should be forgotten. If they went out of business it would be no big loss to anyone except maybe TMNT fans. They may as well become a relic of the past like Streamline or whoever else. Critisizing people for celebrating their downfall I think is too conservative a stance to take. Anime in the US has evolved since Pokemon, so the old way of butchering shows doesn't need to occur anymore. They may be celebrating progress if anything else. Stuff like Cartoon Netowork and bit-torrent/youtube has changed the landscape forever. You can't ignore this, its an important cultural phenomenon that does involve kids. I do know grade school kids who watch subtitled anime on their computers or buy manga from barnes and noble by the bag, so "US kids don't read" rhubbish was obviously incredibly off the mark imo. |
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Daemonblue
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Well, a lot of people can say that this is no surprise. As for the first season of YGO, they said that they would never liscence it, most likely because it has more mature themes than the following seasons, much like how Pokemon was more mature in the first few mangas. Personally, I'm glad to see 4Kids taking a fall, maybe once they hit the floor they'll get some sense knocked into them.
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ponlork
Posts: 102 |
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I remember reading an interview with Al Kahn where he stated that Kids are "stupid", and "By the time we localize the programs kids don't even know they're from Japan anymore", and "labels such as "Anime" are for adults and mean nothing to children". The way I see it, 4kids is more trying to distance themselves from the term anime then trying to contribute to the growth of anime. I don't really consider them having that much of an influence on making anime mainstream. Sure they might of brought it to the attention of parents who have kids obsessed with Pokemon or YuGiOh but in my opinion, with the advent of digital fansubs and the explosion of "unflipped" manga's in 2002, that help contribute more to the popularity of anime. There was a time when Fox and KidsWB had Zero anime in their Saturday morning lineups. They didn't really get deep into anime until the dawn of the new millennium. By that time anime had already build up a strong following with an ever-growing fanbase. It was just a matter of time when it hit it big and went mainstream to evolve into the phenomenon that it is today. 4kids was more capitalizing off a trend I can't really see them paving the way or playing a major role in contributing to the success of anime. How many folks here really got their start in anime from watching 4kids shows? They don't even showcase 4kids anime at Anime conventions. To most kids the shows they're seeing on Fox is like the old cartoons we used to watch on Nick Jr when we didn't realize they were anime until we became fans. I was disappointed by the handling of One Piece because they lead us to believe that the changes were going to be minimal and they even went as far as to screen a US trailer of the dub at a convention using a identical opening sequence to the "We Are!" theme in English. So when they came out with that "Onepiece Rap" crap it was like a stab in the back to many fans. My personal beef with 4kids is that they feel it's mandatory to westernize all their shows like it's standard procedure to remove any and every occurrence of Japanese references because it's "Too scary" for children. I don't mind editing for violence and nudity but cutting up a show just for the sake of censoring Kanji Text or Rice balls is ridiculous. I think Americans now are more acceptable to the Japanese culture where it shouldn't become an issue anymore. Even shows like Avatar, Teen Titans, or Puffy Amiyumi, they're not afraid of kids being mentally scarred from the Japanese culture references. Kids are more open-minded then a lot of adults give them credit for. I just find a lot of edits in 4kids shows to be meaningless like re-orchestrating the soundtrack, removing Japanese text, mirroring roads, skipping episodes and shortening scenes, discarding OP's. Actually I'm not really against translating songs to english, but to completely replace OP's with some OnePiece of crap rap is wrong. I guess changing names for American kids is reasonable, I think to a certain extent Americanizing is okay but most of the time 4kids go overboard Even if they do release uncut versions, I'm more concern about the presentation of anime series on TV. I don't really watch television for the latest and greatest in anime, heck most of these shows airing I've already seen I just want to ensure that my favorite shows get treated properly when broadcasted on TV and projected to the masses. Last edited by ponlork on Tue Aug 15, 2006 6:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Chrono Jr
Posts: 12 Location: Richmond, Virginia |
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[quote="tidusora"]
Because they are too busy raping the Anime market. It cost to make origional animation, hiring voices, production cost, writers ect. Anime is cheap cause all you have to do is hire voice actors, translators, and anime is almost always a hit with children. Lighting in a bottle my friends! 4Kids is just one of those big coporate machines that will do whatever it take to make a buck, even ignore the once who truely care what happens to a product. |
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Keonyn
 Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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On the contrary, anime is not cheap. The cost of licensing an anime alone is often comparable to the production costs of a new title, especially since many domestic titles are animated in Korea where labor costs are low. Not to mention most kids aren't to concerned with whether it's a cartoon or anime, many don't even recognize there's a difference. As for 4Kids doing what it takes to make a buck, that's a given and unfortunately they took it to far and never learned it was a mistake until it was too late. However, the predictions of their demise don't hold much water, they may have lost profits but they are far from being in the red. Either way, if I recall they left the anime market so their status really doesn't matter any longer.
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Yoda117
Posts: 406 |
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[quote="Chrono Jr"]
Okay, you're really liberal with the use of the term "rape", which really doesn't describe the situation. Check the definition and try again. And according to your model, the same terms could be applied to ADV and Funimation due to some of their edits for CN, in addition to some of their past actions and practices. We all know that not to be the case with Funi/ADV. We also know that 4Kids is just that... for kids. If they thought the adult demographic was worth going after, they would, and we would see vastly different edits. However, they don't. It's a shame that the company is still stuck in a 70-80s mentality of animation being just for kids, and must be tailored to suit them. That said, this is nothing compared to some of the stuff that distributors have done in the past to market a show to kids. And yes, it is working. Pokemon first aired about 10 years ago, and look at the median age of anime fans. It's pretty close to that age group. Some companies are trying to raise mean age for obvious reasons (much higher discretionary income). If 4Kids was smart, they'd follow suit and keep their "children's titles" while also branching out into the more adult market. if "ifs" and "buts" were beer and nuts, what a grand old party we'd have... |
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Primus
 Posts: 2759 Location: Toronto |
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I'm not going to read this because of all this Otaku Bashing of 4Kids.
4Kids made titles popular that may have never been picked up by other companies. They also made compeition in sorts for other Anime Companies to liscene more titles to try to make something with some of 4Kids Titles popularity. Hell if 4Kid's Pokemon wasn't a hit I doubt Nelvana (a Company which doesn't liscene alot of Anime) would liscene Beyblade even though their dub may have questionable edits(A Scene in the last episode of the show has Tyson/Takao metting up with major characters from the previous Seasons which weren't in the third Season) it pushed the toyline to high profits. The One thing that I hate about 4Kids other then not releasing UnCut Dub/Sub DVDs is the fact that their associated with the Transformers Franchise. The only thing the 2 have in common was that both had a Fox Line-Up(Beast Wars, Beast Machines, and R.i.D airing on Fox Kids that would later be replaced by 4Kids Block). |
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