Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! [2006-08-18]
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6867 Location: Kazune City |
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I was surprised when I heard that the live-action Cutey Honey movie had been licensed...when I saw it, I thought it was only likeable on "kitsch" factor. Oh, the traumatic memories...
I'm not expecting an FMA boxed set of any kind until 2008 or so--not that I have any solid evidence to predict that, since I'm not sure how Funimation's release schedule works. Like AnswerMan said, those FMA DVDs will sell pretty well for awhile, so there's no need to hurry with a boxed set. I imagine we wouldn't get one for the whole series, though. Probably two with 7/6 or 3 with 5/4/4. That's why I jumped on the most recent Rightstuf Funi sale to get the first 7 volumes. Incidentally, some have blamed boxed sets and cheap re-releases as something that has a negative effect on anime sales, especially sales of those critical first-run release DVDs. (more on that later)
 ) One thing that might turn people off is the artwork; the girls tend to be super-skinny and/or deformed, and the garish artbox with huuuuuge anime girl heads requires a lot of self-confidence or "don't-care-idence" to have on a shelf. Speaking from an objective, heterosexual viewpoint, though, the guys in SG are good enough eyecandy, though they can't compete with all the bishounen in the cutting-edge yaoi anime these days. Incidentally, they can't blame piracy for poor sales on Super Gals!; neither fansubs nor DVD-rips were ever completed for it, and there's essentially nothing out there for download, as a search of a couple of major torrent sites will reveal. (On another side note, I had been organizing a fansub project to start releasing the second season of Super Gals!, but as soon as we heard about TRSI's announcement, we dropped it and deleted everything.)
And what's with girls and their obsession with bishounen? Guys take crap for buying fanservice shows like Love Hina, DearS, Girls Bravo, etc. instead of better quality or more sensible anime, so why aren't girls buying more stuff like Ultra Maniac, Cardcaptor Sakura, or Snow Fairy Sugar? All right, the fansub rant... http://animenation.net/news/askjohn.php?id=1355 http://animenation.net/news/askjohn.php?id=1329 You could probably call AskJohn a fansub apologist, but he makes some interesting points. (All emphasis added by me.)
If the industry got their wish and all fansubbing magically stopped, would sales magically increase? No, because there would still be bootlegs and DVD-rips, both of which get ignored in "fansubbing is solely responsible for killing the industry" arguments. If there were no fansubs, you can bet that DVD-ripping groups would step up their efforts to get everything they could encoded and online. Thus, fansubs aren't really relevant to piracy anymore, since pretty much anything will become available to download somehow or another. The only exceptions are more obscure series like Diamond Daydreams and Nanaka 6/17 which have been fansubbed but not ripped. If they're sooo concerned about fansubs affecting sales, they should license unfansubbed series and see how far that gets them. Some make the argument that fansubs hurt sales in Japan, which is fallacious; if Japanese otaku and file-sharers didn't put TV captures and DVD .iso's online in the first place, fansubbers wouldn't have material to work with. If there were no fansubs, then the raws would be more aggressively distributed to the point where any Japanese downloader would be able to get them. And of course, they too could get the R1 DVD-rips (added bonus of subtitles that can be turned off  )
For series that don't get licensed, fansubbing is still theft of intellectual property, but it doesn't cost sales, since most fans were never going to buy R2 DVDs that they can't understand anyway. And, fans who might not have $150 to spend on a series might have $20 to spend on figures, posters, pencilboards, manga, artbooks, or other merchandise related to a series like Shuffle! or Suzuka that falls into that category. In this way, fansub exposure = "spillover sales," although this connection would be tough to verify, I admit. I know I don't represent the typical consumer or downloader, but I can count about 18 series that I saw all or most of on fansubs that I own on DVD, plus a few others that I had DLed but never watched before buying. Then there are DVDs that replaced rips or bootlegs, which I won't count since the ranter didn't mention them. Some people say that watching unlicensed fansubs kept them from falling out of anime, and someone who's still in the fandom is infinitely more likely to spend money on anime product than someone who isn't. Yes, I'm a fansub apologist, and I contribute to the "problem," but I agree with the ranter that hardcore fansub defenders over-emphasize their contribution. It's just that the naysayers overstate the harm done while under-emphasizing the benefits. |
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Rasseru
Posts: 4 |
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How would you feel watching a series, unlicensed, and you get halfway through, then some company with millions and millions of dollars, and are filthy rich decide to buy the show completely, and say, tough luck, this show you got to watch for free, just like the people in Japan who watch TV and watch it for free, you now have to pay money to watch this. Not only that, but you got to wait 3 years for them to finally release it when you were in the middle of it.
Let's face it, the ones that license it and say downloading it on the internet isn't allowed is just money hungry and doesn't deserve a dime, I hope they go broke. They're practically bullies, you got something you enjoy, and they take it away from you then charge you. Long live fansubbers, they actually do it for free where as those money hungry scum ruin it for everybody. Luckily you can still find subbers when stuff becomes licensed. |
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Steventheeunuch
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Seems like you're bitter about Naruto, if you're saying '3 years'. But okay, a company can have millions of dollars, but this doesn't mean they're filthy rich. Those millions go into investments, aqquisitions, advertising, production, paying employees, etc. It's not entirely selfless but it;s one of the main ideas of a business, to make a profit. Same for here and in Japan. If someone takes away something you werent supposed to get in the first place, why complain? Just move on.
Errr not so much. The idea of removing torrents and fansubs from distribution is mostly a fan-regulated thing, done out of courtesy to companies that will generally release a faithful version. This mentality has changed over recent times, but you're forgetting that Anime is a priviledge, and not a right, so put up with it, eh?
Yeah how dare people make a commercial product and expect people to pay for it!!!- Wait, you're forgetting without 'money hungry companies' charging people for a product that cost money to make in the first place, you'd get no anime that you feel you're entitled to. Might wanna give that a bit of a think-over. Also to anyone whos going to post to berate him, don't, because it solves nothing when you demean people on their first go (notice the 1 post?) |
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Washi_
Posts: 13 |
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What the hell is wrong with you? Mostly, I'm able to pass things off as simply a clash of opinions, but you, sir, are officially wrong. Anime distributors in the US are not filthy rich millionares; it is still a relatively struggling business, even in Japan. These people aren't greedy filthy-rich corporate scum who want to steal things from you. Anime costs money to make, understand this. If something costs money to make, no one will make it unless it makes money itself. Therefore watching all anime for free is impossible, and it's foolish to think you deserve such a privilege. People in Japan don't get it for free either; most anime are aired on cable tv stations, and they view advertisements during the programme which produces revenue. Please think a little bit harder about the industry. You're currently an example of the negative uses of fansubs. |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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Gee, ranting sounds like a nice corner. I see a lot of anti-lolicon rants coming our way in the not so distant future. It makes sense as far as the box releasing is concerned, I'd be pissed too if that were to have happened to me.
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Rasseru
Posts: 4 |
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I don't watch Naruto. I wasn't saying all companies are bad, but some certainly are in my opinion. Also, in Japan, it's displayed free on TV. How exactly were we never supposed to get into in the first place? We have every right to it until it's licensed, not all anime is licensed.
It's rather rare they remove the current torrents. Usually when they do that, it's because they wern't able to finished so it's kind of inconvenient.
You know, if it wasn't a commercial product in the first place, it would have never been an issue. Again, I'm not saying all of the companies are bad, but quite a few are. How would you feel if I was really rich, like Bill Gates, and bought and licensed every single anime, and burned it all and made sure no one could view it. Would you still feel that it is right? Now I agree though, that in order to do certain things like dub, it does cost money to produce, however no one is paying fansubbers for their time. That's OK if they want to sell it and make somewhat of a profit, but monoplizing it isn't. |
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bayoab
Posts: 831 |
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I would like to take this moment to introduce you to the MAJORITY opinion of those involved in fansubs. You and your friends are a minority.
TV is not free in Japan.. yada yada yada.. commercials... yada yada yada PPV and Cable airings... etc etc. (You can see how sick I am about arguing this as its always the same argument and its always wrong.) More than one way to view it beside fansubs.. renting it.. free previews.. TV.. etc.. opinion of those on the web.. Do you pirate a movie before buying a ticket and seeing it in a theater or getting the DVD? You do not have any right to it when it is unlicensed. Japan still owns the copyright. Berne convention passes their copyright to the states, etc etc. Its still a copyrighted work. It is illegal and piracy. etc etc. I see this thread taking a common path... of all fansub threads... Last edited by bayoab on Fri Aug 18, 2006 2:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
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roxybudgy
Posts: 129 Location: Western Australia |
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I don't know about everyone else, but if it weren't for free samples, I wouldn't be into anime or manga. I'd probably still be obsessed with drawing animals and spending money on birds. So if I didn't have free access to it, how much more would I have bought? Short answer: Zero. But by 'free samples', I don't just mean fansubs and scanlations though... there were also manga and anime borrowed from libraries of friends. And not exactly free, but also anime-con screenings and video rental stores. |
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Washi_
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I disagree. Those who do not buy any DVDs, are a minority, and those why buy every DVD for the fansubs they've seen are a minority. Those who are somewhere in-between, which includes my friends and I, are the majority. But that post was really sad to see. |
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hagakure|returns
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The sad thing is that, there are countless other people that think the same way too. Big Evil companies are taking free fansub away from the fans!. And thus,...the rant is valid when we have so many of them around.
Even though Bill Gates is very rich, he donate a lot of money to various charities....he isn't this evil shelfish guy that you're making him out to be. Also your point is invalid because it's ...well stupid. Commerical product are the property of those who made it. Fansubber have no agreement with the japanese companies that produce it, thus they have no right to distrube the product without the creater's consent. |
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Zalis116
Moderator
Posts: 6867 Location: Kazune City |
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Rasseru
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Even without the commercials, every company that stays only in Japan that I know want people to distribute it (assuming it's not licensed). Why? Because it indeed builds the fanbase, and a big fanbase makes it that much better for them. You say it's bad? Well what about the people behind the anime creation who say it's a good thing? I certainly don't see it as wrong.
It costs them nothing to distribute what is already out. Nor would they be making anymore money anyways. I don't know about you, but if I was behind the creation of an anime, and I had the chance of my anime being twice the fanbase size, at no additional cost, I'd take it in a heartbeat. The only people against it are people who license things, not the creators. |
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fighterholic
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Why in God's holy name would the companies want fansubbers to distribute their anime when the companies are the ones losing out on the money  A lot of us know very well that there are some people that only have fansubbed eps of anime, and will only get fansubs until the end of their days out there. That is one of the most s-t-u-p-i-d things I have ever heard.
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Steventheeunuch
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Firstly, about Naruto, fair enough, I just made a sort of loose connection, nevermind. As for being displayed for free on TV in Japan, this is true, but there's two factors you're not taking into consideration- 1. Fansubbers (or those providing raws) remove advertisements generally, which are paid for by investors and what not to actually get the animation made. Because you're not exposed to those advertisements, regardless of whether or not you buy the merchandise, there's still a problem because they never got the chance. 2. While you might delete the fansub version afterwards, carrying over from point 1, you're still obtaining a to-keep version. The one shown on TV is a one time only thing, whereas you're getting something that can be kept as long as information can be kept (lets say indefinantly). Sure, people in Japan record these programs, but theres a big difference between making one recording for yourself, and making a recording, throwing it onto the internet, so that hundreds to millions of other people can get it without contributing to actual TV broadcasts.
Unnameable sites actually do follow the 'fansubber code of ethics' (whatever that is nowerdays) and pull out torrents/links when it is licensed. Some do this, some dont, but the original idea was that it was a self-regulated thing, but then again there was less of an entitlement complex back then.
Bad being protecting what's theirs. But if it weren't a commercial product in the first place, you can be damn sure there'd be a bare fraction of what's available today.
Absolutely not, but that's not the case and a really bad argument. Fansubs to begin with (this'll come up in a second) are illegal, and were generally looked over for a few reasons- 1. There'd be no way to practically follow up every single case of infringement. 2. When subtitled anime, back in the day, was one of the larger forms of getting people into things, it did act as a form of advertisement. What's happening now is that there are more venues of distribution, new ways to get people into it, and as a result, more instances of licensing products which, when the license is maintained, come out, and generally uncut/bilingual/subtitled (some occasions this isn't the case, but there's always an exception to everything).
Fansubbers are ideally doing this as a hobby, or to encourage others in to anime (though these days, it's also used as an ePenis). Currently, the Anime market does not have a monopoly on Anime as a whole. A company might have the rights to all of a specific title, in which case you could construe that as a 'monopoly', but it's not like ADV or FUNimation have exclusive rights over every animated program from Japan. The vast diversity of companies, from Disney to Discotek, prove this. Anime isn't a right, and don't treat it as such. Don't bite the hand on the body that feeds you, even if it's the other hand  .
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Rasseru
Posts: 4 |
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For one, I was addressing the anime creators, not the companies, two, the companies in Japan don't really care either, it isn't costing them money like you say it does, only the companies that purchase it for their own company. You say it's stupid? It's free advertisement. That sure isn't stupid. Sure, some people will never ever buy something, but guess what, that's how things work, look at commercials on TV, do you think if I see a vacuum on TV that if I don't ever plan to buy it, it's stupid? Honestly... That logic is flawed. |
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