Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! [2006-08-18]
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selenta
 Subscriber Posts: 1774 Location: Seattle, WA |
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I'm not sure why people bother to talk about fansubs to be honest, there are so many ignorant people doing all sorts of other things, why get so caught up in the fact that they're offended by fansubs? Unlike in those other situations, the people offended by fansubs can't do jack about it. Shouldn't we be more concerned about the negative things they do to other things that they do have control over?
I did like the flake of the week though 
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MorwenLaicoriel
 Posts: 1617 Location: Colorado |
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Wrong. The anime companies aren't making anime just so they can have fans. They like having fans. But you know why they like fans? Money. Money from advertisements. Money from merchandise. From DVD sales. Money. Guess what that makes the anime companies? In your mind, it should rightly be "money hungry scum", I suppose. Because NOBODY who cares about people at all would want to make an honest living! Your logic makes as much sense as a young adult carrying out food out of a grocery store or a resturant without paying, and, when caught and told that he can't do that, stubbornly says "but when I lived at my Mom's house, it was free!" No, the food was never free. Mom just paid for it instead of you. In the same way, the anime was never free. The companies buying add space, and the channel, were paying for it instead of you. And I certainly hope you don't think that the creators of your favorite anime show don't have a right to make any money off their creations either--they need to have food, a home, and supplies to continue to make it. |
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Steventheeunuch
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There's a huge difference between a fanbase, and a commercial market. With a commercial product, one cannot exist without the other. What people are arguing is that it's not always the case that the people downloading or making fansubs (as shown you your examples here) are actually buying the products, which in turn help to support them. Also, in regards to what Japanese companies want, you realistically cannot say what they do, or do not want, because every company is different.
Again, fanbase doesnt always lead over in to sales. People would download fansubs, not know anime is expensive to create, license, market, and release, wouldn't want to pay the prices they see as being 'outrageous' (or even paying at all), and wouldn't end up buying it. Have you studied any kind of film or media or animation subjects? Might be a good idea to better understand how these things work.
The creators being several things; The author, who makes the original work; The investors, who front the money; The animation studio and staff, who are hired to produce it; the companies involved to license it out, etc. Selling a series or movie or whatever to a foreign market through experienced companies in the U.S is beneficial to Japanese companies, as it brings in money for them, it helps establish and maintain relationships overseas, and allows for US companies to assist in the production and proliferation of Anime. |
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GATSU
Posts: 15295 |
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Zac:
You might not want to phrase it that way, or people will think you're stating fact.
It might have a stronger possibility of getting licensed if Toei wasn't run by greedy and stingy arseholes ATM. Still, I'm wondering why FLASH never got released here. It's more marketable, because it's less ecchi.
Fans can be stupid, sometimes...
No, it's not. The market is headed toward boxsets, and ADV was doing the right thing. Fans who really want a series to be successful shouldn't care if someone else who didn't care paid less for it a few months later.
People weren't watching Arrested Development, because no one cares about rich people with problems except critics who are out of touch with today's audiences. It's the same reason Action was cancelled.
It's actually less "girly" than other stuff out there, like say, Princess Tutu. And it does appear to have a romance angle. I think the problem with the show is that it didn't really stand out, since the girls don't really do anything, what with them being slackers and all...Also, the "super" in the title's misleading, since they obviously don't have super powers. Plus CMX's awful marketing of Tenjho Tenge as "girl power" probably turned people away from the Gals manga, thus hurting the synergy in the process. I never knew why ADV didn't license both, and marketed the manga the way they did with Cromartie. (I.E. give out a free episode if you buy a book. ) I actually thought the latter series only had niche appeal, but when they played the live-action film at AX, the room was so packed that people were still waiting in line when it started. On a side note, I'm surprised they didn't pick up the movie, either. |
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joel_s95387
Posts: 1804 Location: California... The Village Hidden In The Porn |
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Interesting rant since I currently have been watching many fansubs. I just found out a friend of mine downloads shows all the time and he has been burning me many fansubs.
I think it's great to watch these shows for free. But something still keeps me away and that is the fact they are subbed. Subtitles ruin series for me because I feel something is more emotional when the character says it, then when you read it. After watching the first 2 episodes fansubbed of Samurai 7, I ended up picking up volumes 1,2,4,6, and 7. Watching them on a big screen with surround sound and in a language I understand is far better than on my computer. Watching shows like Ergo Proxy and Blood+ I don't mind as much because there is no other way for me to watch them. I don't really know where I stand with fansubs. Do they really hurt the industry? Do they help the industry? Do I really care? All I know is that it hasn't stopped me from buying DVDs. Hell, I even picked up 5 volumes of a series in 2 days because I saw the first 2 episodes fansubbed. I turned down the offer of getting the Basilisk fansubs since I plan on buying the series. Oh and I thought the popularity of FMA and Samurai Champloo was more of Adult Swim's "fault". I remember the first couple of volumes sitting at my local store shelves for a while, but once it got goin on [as], all the older volumes and newer volumes were flying off the shelves. Well, I forgot the point of me posting so I figure it's time to end this. - Edit - One More thing. The only reason I don't buy more anime is because it is very expensive. Remember that crack is cheaper! |
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8459 Location: Penguinopolis |
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Let's pretend for a moment that fansubs don't do all that much damage to the anime industry as a whole.
It's still best for an anime fan who's really into a show to purchase the legal product to show their support of the show and the creators. Japanese animation studios aren't rich. Japanese animators don't make tons of money. It's a labor of love. But then, so are a lot of fansubs - fans passionate enough to translate, time, add culture notes at times, and all because there is a demand from the community of anime fans. I try to purchase DVDs whenever possible, because, frankly, it's the legal thing, and it's about quality as well. Licensed marketed DVDs have higher quality video, higher quality sound, and just a higher quality of production than a fansub does (usually). Why anyone would shrug off buying the legal copy of a series simply because they can't afford it at the moment and it's easier to get for free is a staggering denouncement of all the hard work that the people who made the program. If you care so much about these people and their product, you will support them by legal means. They don't get money for further production by you downloading anime for free. But let's not pretend that we're all just buying DVDs of anime. I too watch fansubs, and let's face it - it's piracy. However, it's because of this "piracy" that anime productions build up steam and fanbase, and likely people who will shell out cash for the product. So it's a double-edge sword. I love the people who view anime companies/licensors as being these big, filthy rich, corporate giants who wipe their butts with hundred dollar bills and then wash their face and hands in diamonds. It's cute. If I want a Mercedes, but can't afford it, I don't just take one from the Mercedes dealer because "It's not fair! They're so expensive, and plus, I might not be that into the Mercedes to keep it around." |
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kokoroAngel
Posts: 11 |
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The kitten picture was really cute!
Is anime in US really that expensive? And why don't people want boxsets? It's more convenient and will be cheaper too. All anime released here in Singapore are in the form of boxsets with 11 to 13 episodes each. |
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hagakure|returns
Posts: 407 |
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But aren't the majority of anime in singapore bootleg? |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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Compared to Japan anime in the US is dirt cheap. The best you can hope for in Japan is 60 dollars for 4 episodes. Ususally you have anime going over here at 4 eps for 20-25 dollars, three times less than that of Japan. If it gets really bad you might be paying 90 dollars in Japan. |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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R1 DVD are generally much cheaper than their R2 counterpart, especially in cases of remastered R2 releases of oldies. Anybody wants to pay ¥30,000 for the R2 boxset of Key the Metal Idol? The R1 boxset is less than $40 -- about 1/7.
Because we want original box art, space for manuals, higher bitrate, and extras. |
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Daemonblue
 Posts: 701 |
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Well, I'll just add a few comments on the fansub arguement. I personally think that this can both help and hurt sales, but it tends to help more than hurt. I say this because,as was mentioned before, there are several series that will not be licensed in America, and without these avenues (or something similar) to obtaining these series, other products might not sale as much. As was mentioned earlier, it's not just the animes themselves that people buy, but also the products of those animes. If I had the money (goin to get a job once I turn 18 this November, the current jobs I can do around here hardly pay for the gas) I would buy more anime DVDs, as a matter of fact I'm planning to buy the Rumbling Hearts DVDs once they're released this December because it's a very good series. What people don't bring up is that people tend to buy DVDs because they have better quality than fansubs, let's face it, something downloaded will always have some form of pixelation because of data transfer, while a DVD is less likely to be pixelated or jumpy. Yes, there are immoral a-holes that don't buy licensed anime, but there are those that are too young to get a job or really can't afford it (which is somewhat common where I live, but not many are anime fans).
So, obviously, I'm a supporter of fansubs, and I will gladly accept any decisions that the fansubbers make when a series gets licensed where I live. As for certain series (including manga) I prefer to get the Japanese versions because they're uncut (which, thank goodness, the anime companies aren't cutting as much nowadays, but the manga companies still are...I"s manga anyone?). So yes, fansubbers can hurt anime sales because of those bumholes that won't buy licensed anime even though they like it, but it helps sales in those that wouldn't have bought it otherwise and also buy the other merchandise. |
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Steventheeunuch
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It's only made out to be.
Well, the reason people get iffy about boxsets is because generally, Anime in the U.S is released as individual volumes of properly numbered episodes (say, one month eps 1-5 would come out, next month 6-10, for example). People would buy these volumes, and then soon after, a cheaper set would come out. These people would feel kinda ripped off because they've spent X over a period of time, and someone can simply spend Y and get it all in one go. To be honest, I'd prefer if everything were released like Zeta Gundam TV (no, not with huge delays, replaced OP ED and shitty subtitles), in that a complete boxset comes out, and then volumes follow, allowing for people to sample DVDs, buy at their own pace, etc, while those who definantly want it can just go ahead and get it out of the way. |
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kokoroAngel
Posts: 11 |
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I see...Interesting how each region is so different in such stuff.
No, most of the anime brought in is by Odex, which is legitimate, though their subbing skills sucks but improving. Naruto is brought in by Blue max, up to box 11(rescue Sasuke arc) so far. Most free to air channels do broadcast anime, whether in chinese dub(ch 8, ch u), english dub(kids central) or original Japanese(arts central ). |
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6867 Location: Kazune City |
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MegaFansubs finishes "Impossible Fighter Fukanou" (time passes) Some company announces, "Hey, we've licensed IFF." (next day) MegaFansubs says, "IFF has now been licensed, so all torrents, IRC packs, etc. have been removed." (soon after) Random Leecher #27,890 who's DLed the episodes goes to [this be a bittorrent site], [so is this one], or [this one is too], makes a torrent, and a week later, hundreds of others have picked up Impossible Fighter Fukanou 1-26. Of course, oftentimes the episodes have been uploaded long before licensing. That's one reason why the companies can't simply go after fansub groups to get them to stop distributing their properties--fansub groups can't control distribution of the files they create, though I have heard of one group DDOSing a site that was hosting their files. Sadly, it wasn't over ethics/licensing issues. That's why I think companies should focus on what they can control, like choosing and delivering quality products that give incentive to buy, instead of obsessing over what they can't control.
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kensukeyura
Posts: 38 Location: Rochester, NY |
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That's... a really good idea!  Doing things that way would be the ideal for me, as I almost never buy anime that isn't a box set. I really, really hope the market eventually shifts to all box sets, or at least puts box sets as the priority. I don't even care if the box sets cost the same as the total cost of the individual volumes (although obviously dirt cheap box sets would be even better) so long as I can get the entire series at once. Waiting two years as each individual DVD is released is annoying and really not necessary. Call me crazy, but that is my ultimate dream as an anime fan: box sets, box sets, box sets! Box sets until I puke!
P.S. Excellent column, Zac dearest!! |
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