×
  • remind me tomorrow
  • remind me next week
  • never remind me
Subscribe to the ANN Newsletter • Wake up every Sunday to a curated list of ANN's most interesting posts of the week. read more

Forum - View topic
NEWS: Viz Edits Fullmetal Alchemist


Goto page Previous    Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
fuchikoma



Joined: 09 Jun 2005
Posts: 36
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:19 pm Reply with quote
While this edit isn't that profound compared to many I've seen, Viz was already on by blacklist... I don't buy manga so I can play a guessing game about what parts of it were original and which ones were westernized. Modern domestic manga companies think they can just Robotech their way into the bestselling book lists, and actually, it seems they're right. Ironically though, I'm sure they offend way more people by editing than by leaving the original intact.

Still, it looks like it's down to Del Rey and... Tokyopop?! to give us unedited manga. And yes, I know Del Rey isn't spotless, and Tokyopop is... Tokyopop. Those two seem the cleanest these days though. I'm just glad I started studying Japanese around 10 years ago, and I'd recommend it to anyone not as a manga-saving tactic, but just because it's fun and useful to learn. At least for me there's still Shogakukan, Kodansha, Kadokawa, Wani, etc... You can bet they edit too - but at least buying from them, we get the same editions that were bestsellers originally and not some "if we just do some minor touch-ups, we can market Devilman to 5 year olds!" hackjob.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
FMAFan16



Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 9
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:20 pm Reply with quote
So Viz wants to avoid a little controversy by editing a little picture of Greed on the cross. What's big deal? Yeah, it's silly but it has no importance to the plot and it's hardly noticable. Don't some of you drive yourselves crazy over this and make some big issue of it. There is really alot more Viz could edit in the manga, to appease some other agenda-driven groups out there, which thankfully they haven't. There's no need for a "boycott" of their books.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Deacon Blues



Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 381
Location: Albuquerque, NM
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:27 pm Reply with quote
fuchikoma wrote:
At least for me there's still Shogakukan, Kodansha, Kadokawa, Wani, etc... You can bet they edit too - but at least buying from them, we get the same editions that were bestsellers originally and not some "if we just do some minor touch-ups, we can market Devilman to 5 year olds!" hackjob.


Um, how do you figure that they edit? They're reproducing already released manga most of the time. :/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Yuukichan's Papa



Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 93
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:40 pm Reply with quote
Wow, the amount of righteous indignation here is almost palpable. I'm happy that people who disapprove of any form of censorship can still believe in a magical world where nothing that anybody says or does can offend anybody else, or if it does they will simply ignore it.

It's not a matter of a large edit or a small edit. It's the matter of a business working on incredibly popular material with lots of public exposure making a judgment call on whether the potential amount of fans being pissed off and not continuing to purchase their product is larger or smaller than the potential damage that a small but easily offended and incredibly vocal group could do if they raise a big enough stink about it. They've certainly complained about less.

I'm not saying the decision kowtow to those who look for things to be offended by is necessarily the right decision. I'm not saying that censorship is always justifiable. What I am saying is that in *this particular case*, an objectively minor change was made (apparently with creator's consent) "just in case".

Trust me, it's not like companies like Viz revel in these sorts of changes. It's extra time and money they need to invest.

On the other side of the coin (before the flames are fanned even more), there are alternatives that Viz could have made use of but haven't. As has been mentioned before, simply wrapping it like other titles such as Negima would do a world of good, as well as making sure the rating is prominent. Of course, we all know how good a job the rating system is doing for video games at the moment. Rolling Eyes

It's just prudent to pick your battles in these matters, and I don't personally feel something this minor is worth raising my blood pressure or calling for some sort of boycott over.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
RezSav



Joined: 06 Jun 2004
Posts: 542
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:42 pm Reply with quote
Whatever, it's a commercial product, not high art. Viz can edit it however they see fit. - lol, someone doesn't like FMA
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Viga_of_stars



Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 1240
Location: Washington D.C. in the Anime Atelier
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:43 pm Reply with quote
i haven't read 8 yet what they cut? someone tell please.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
sodynaor



Joined: 07 Nov 2004
Posts: 10
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:44 pm Reply with quote
This is why companies can get away with this junk because half of you let it slide. Oh its OK because of some potential controversy?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hikaru004



Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Posts: 2306
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:47 pm Reply with quote
I actually can't offer an opinion on that edit. We had Xena the Warrior Princess getting crucified on network TV IIRC.
Romans used crucifixation as a means of capital punishment. I think that it would be very barbaric in the timeframe of FMA to crucify someone, but I would also need to know the context of the execution in addition to seeing the panel.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pat_payne



Joined: 28 Jul 2006
Posts: 179
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:48 pm Reply with quote
Isaaru wrote:


So what ig Greed is crucified or hangs on a rock? Is FMA about people getting cruciffied? Does Greed die for your sins? Greed is unconsious, so whats the point of crucifying him? The point of a crucificition is that your awake and having your arms outstetched for a long time IS REALLY FREAKIN PAINFUL to a normal human being!!!!! It's shape is simply a convienant and easy assembled way of doing this in roman times.


Not merely that, but it was, to a Roman, one of the most humiliating ways to die. It was so humiliating, in fact, that it was forbidden by law to subject a Roman citizen to it. It was seen as a punishment explicitly for slaves (Spartacus) and foreigners (Jesus). The punishment was also meant as an edification for the public: When Spartacus' rebellion was defeated in 73 BC, the remaining members of the revolt were crucified along the Appian Way as a means of showing others the cost of defying Rome (as well as a way for Crassus to advertise that HE, not Pompey, had smashed Spartacus).

As to the manga, although I'm not a reader of FMA, I don't see how the edits change anything. OTHO, it does seem pointless as there are other less-than-flattering depictions of Christianity in anime and manga that haven't raised any eyebrows (for instance, a gun-toting nun in "Chrno Crusade," or the blatant Christian imagery in Evangelion, including Lilith). I wonder why this one would be any different.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CaliSerenity



Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 36
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:48 pm Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
Arggghhh.

Look, it doesn't matter how "small" or "insignificant" the edit was in the FMA manga. It was censorship. If you let small little censoring pass, a precedent is set, and further editing will occur, I guarentee it. You cannot let censorship gain any ground.

Why are so few people getting this?!

And fans come across to companies as a bunch of whiners who throw a ruckus about something so trivial. So next time we complain about something that really matters, how seriously are they going to take our protests?

But come on, in Japan it's no big deal to throw Christian symbolism around (see interview with Eva assistant director). Here in the U.S. it can be, so Viz is just heading off any potential trouble. And everything else in the scene is still intact.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:58 pm Reply with quote
Well with a little imagination and a steady hand with a black marker in it, a clever lad, or lass, could redraw the image of a cross back in and hey presto! Problem solved.
I can see why Viz did this seeing as they are located in a country ruled by Neo-right wing evangelical tight arses who fervantly believe that only Jusus was ever crucified. and that crucifying anyone else is blasphemy, even though that form of execution was wide spread in the known world during Jusus's time. and used for many years after he took the last flight home. Good job the romans didn't execute people like the last great Zulu chief Shaka did. He'd have run a sharpened tree up his arse till it came out the top of his head. Now just picture that on your Easter cards every spring.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Successful_Troll



Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 132
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:06 pm Reply with quote
Deacon Blues wrote:
Hi. Someone needs to wake up.

Corporations don't care about something small and trivial like this. It's the same with Tokyopop and Gundam/hack/whatever. Fans complained about things, they didn't listen. They never have and they never will. Hell, Gundam fans complained to Bandai about the subs on the Zeta Gundam DVDs as well as 'defects' in the discs. What did they do? Denied replacements. This is hardly something worth noting for them that could hurt them. If they changed a characters sex around, then I could see that being a major problem.


Except there's DelRay. DelRay was planning on editing Negima originally, but there was so many fans against it that they decided not to. Kind of gives us false hope with all the other companies that don't really care about us.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MezzoFan



Joined: 28 Jul 2006
Posts: 18
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:09 pm Reply with quote
Deacon Blues wrote:
Hi. Someone needs to wake up.

Corporations don't care about something small and trivial like this.


Hi. It seems like some people refuse to open their eyes even when they ARE awake.

They care about this when it could reasonably affect their sales dollars. Del Rey decided to shrinkwrap Negima after the huge backlash they received from fans. Companies care to the extent that it affects them. Of course Bandai isn't going to go back and offer replacements for all the Zeta discs. They'd lose their ass. But you can't cite these cases as being "the way it is" - because publishers and producers DO listen. And posting on this thread, in addition to writing letters or showing them with your purchasing power, is the way to tell them.

Deacon Blues wrote:
Well, considering this volume of the manga came out on July 18th, nearly two months ago and went relatively un-noticed until some wonderful moron told this site to make a huge deal about it, I think that it's over and done with.


Oh, absolutely. Viz really pulled a fast one. But now that the truth is out, people should be able to talk about it and decide whether or not they wanna continue buying a series with the knowledge that more of it could be censored. Or any other Viz series for that matter. Keep the thread open. If you don't wanna read our opinions, maybe you should go read some of the edited Viz manga that, I take it, you support?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Riyousha



Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 817
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:14 pm Reply with quote
SharinganEyes92 wrote:
I think there are people out there who'd get offended by seeing a cross used in an "un-holy" setting and get angered by it, and therefore cause a drop in sales of the manga.


Well I'm a Christian and I'm not offended if I see a reference to what the bad people put Jesus on. Besides, I don't believe the Japanese is trying to make fun of religion.

But imagen Ned Flanders bought Rod and Todd volume #8 of FMA and their reaction when they see a cross reference.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
Deltakiral



Joined: 07 Oct 2004
Posts: 3338
Location: Glendora, CA (Avatar Hei from Darker than BLACK)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:16 pm Reply with quote
Personally after looking at both images, I do not find the original image offensive. I realize that it's suppose to be a cross, and to me I don't find that wrong. Since I was previously catholic I understand the power of that symbol, but yet I know that Manga is Manga. I am not going to take anything more from it, I don't think that the public would be extremely upset with it either.

There are always going to be people who are upset, but art is art. If someone took my photos (I use this here, since I can draw) and alter them, I would be upset. But of course Viz has the right to do so.....it's not going to stop me from buying the manga....that is when I get to buying this manga.
Till next time,

Delta Kiral

Edit: For the record I voted for "It's silly, it doesn't change the story, but there's nothing offensive about the original image"


Last edited by Deltakiral on Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail My Anime My Manga
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous    Next
Page 12 of 27

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group