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Leebo
Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 660
Location: Somerville, MA
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 Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:47 pm
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| ChibiKangaroo wrote: | | 4/5 is 80% If I scored 80% on any of my exams during my secondary or higher education/grad school, that would be considered right at the edge of being a bad grade. It's passable, but not really good and certainly not "very good." |
This is why I stopped looking at them like grades from school. To me, a B is not a good effort in school. But you are in a small minority to say 4/5 is unacceptable for entertainment scoring.
| ChibiKangaroo wrote: | | You are reading too much into my comment. I said FLCL was better, but I didn't say what grade I would give FLCL. In all likelyhood, both of them would get a B, however one of them is a little better than the other. (Any particular grade generally includes a range of percentage points. I hate even having to explain all of this lol). |
I see. I'm mostly picking on you since FLCL is my favorite series, so you don't have to worry about that too much.
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ShatteredWorld
Joined: 05 May 2013
Posts: 265
Location: ATL
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Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:55 pm
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| ChibiKangaroo wrote: | |
A B is a score I would give to a show that entertained me and kept me watching for the entire series, but was subpar in many other areas. I don't consider it as a particularly "good" score. I consider it as a passing score. Anything below B- I consider an undesirable score. To me, a B+ is a score for something that was very good but just missed in a few small areas and therefore didn't make the "A" range. A- is almost perfection. A is perfection. A+ is beyond perfection. Simple enough?
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lol that's a pretty weird grading system you've got then 
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walw6pK4Alo
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 9322
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Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:56 pm
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The difference between scoring on a scale of ten (or five) is that a 4/5 doesn't meant B-. 50%, removed from letter grades, means adequate, mediocre, average, middling, not really good or bad but just there; not failure. Even 40% doesn't mean totally abhorrent, but I'd use qualifiers like poor or below average. This is why reactions to scores are always so strong, and why scores for video games are always so skewed to to 8 and above, where damned be anything below 8/10. That's why I use a ten point scale, so everything can be adjusted to the middle and then scored across the spectrum in such a way that most things tend to get 6s and 7s, obviously because I tend to watch things I think I'll enjoy, unlike critics who have to watch everything. It also means very few 1s, because its rare to come across something so vile and hateful, and only a handful of 10s which tend to be button-pressing niche fillers.
Hell, even a 10 point scale doesn't always convey the right numerical assessment I'd feel for an anime or film, so I use the full 100.
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Leebo
Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 660
Location: Somerville, MA
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Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:57 pm
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Ha, yeah, I missed the part about A+ being "beyond perfection." I assume nothing could ever achieve an A+ in that scoring system. Or an A for that matter. So we're looking at A- being the highest score we could probably justify. 
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ShatteredWorld
Joined: 05 May 2013
Posts: 265
Location: ATL
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Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:57 pm
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| uguu wrote: |
| Quote: | |
When I recently talked about this show in the series discussion thread, I described it as having a feeling similar to watching trucks smashing against each other repeatedly at a monster truck rally. That's what I get from Kill la Kill right now, and that is about it. Is that exciting? Hell yea it is. Are the trucks outfitted with all kind of super flashy, over the top gear and paintjobs that make them seem like giant monstrosities from another world? Yes. This show can get your adrenaline pumping. And I am sure the fact that the female protagonist is constantly transforming (via nakedness and jiggling boobs) into a a barely clothed, smoking hot warrior chick is probably making otaku all over the land nosebleed like there's no tomorrow. However, beyond that Kill la Kill feels almost completely shallow.
Mako's family are all soulless tools who pop in and out of the story to briefly serve a particular purpose, then disappear. Mako is an imbecile who is purely there for comic relief, and only temporarily shines in episode 7, but for episode 1-6 she is a hapless sidekick who's only purpose is to be beat up, rescued, and act ditsy for our (the audience's) entertainment.
The wandering warrior guy who showed up in one episode to threaten Ryuko was completely devoid of personality or meaningful rationale, other than being a "cool dude" who has a grudge and speaks in cool one-liners. He shows up on a motorcycle, takes everyone out, then rides off into the sunset. He is supposed to be mysterious, but I was just glad when he was gone.
Satsuki and Ryuko's homeroom teacher are interesting characters, but they have not really been the center of attention thus far.
The center of attention, which the review hints at, has been the repeated smashing together of the monster trucks... I mean, Ryuko and various school club presidents. It is entertaining, but intellectually this show is pretty subpar.
Maybe that will change, but at this point I can't even give Kill la Kill as much kudos as I would give to FLCL, a show which I am generally highly critical of. |
I know "you missed the point" is a typical fanboy excuse, but I'm genuinely willing to believe that you didn't really fully grasp what either FLCL or KLK were doing.
Both shows revolve around a certain theme, puberty and clothing respectively, and are absolutely full of clever ideas revolving around said theme. I won't go into FLCL but KLK is pretty in-your-face about it too.
-the entire concept of goku uniforms mirroring real-world power structures
-the OP and ED with their obvious threads symbolism (people coming together to create red threads which then create a cage-like structure)
-pretty much everything to do with Senketsu is insanely clever. first we have the fact that the true fusion only happened when Ryuuko stopped feeling shame - because actions give meaning to outward appearances, as new meaning can be given to an 'outfit'.
Then we have the fact that the Ryuuko-Senketsu fusion is not even considered an 'outfit' in the show - people say it's 'tacky and ugly clothing' but the entire point is that it is not clothing, but two living beings fusing together. Senketsu 'becomes Ryuuko's skin', his threads/'veins' being filled up with Ryuuko's blood. Ryuuko is practically naked and referred to as such, and with this comes the clever idea of using nakedness as a weapon against the clothing. |
I got that theme too, but it's only prevalent in one episode. It's almost nowhere to be seen anywhere else.
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ShatteredWorld
Joined: 05 May 2013
Posts: 265
Location: ATL
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Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:01 pm
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| walw6pK4Alo wrote: | | The difference between scoring on a scale of ten (or five) is that a 4/5 doesn't meant B-. 50%, removed from letter grades, means adequate, mediocre, average, middling, not really good or bad but just there; not failure. Even 40% doesn't mean totally abhorrent, but I'd use qualifiers like poor or below average. This is why reactions to scores are always so strong, and why scores for video games are always so skewed to to 8 and above, where damned be anything below 8/10. That's why I use a ten point scale, so everything can be adjusted to the middle and then scored across the spectrum in such a way that most things tend to get 6s and 7s, obviously because I tend to watch things I think I'll enjoy, unlike critics who have to watch everything. It also means very few 1s, because its rare to come across something so vile and hateful, and only a handful of 10s which tend to be button-pressing niche fillers.
Hell, even a 10 point scale doesn't always convey the right numerical assessment I'd feel for an anime or film, so I use the full 100. |
Amazing posting
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Redcrimson
Joined: 30 Mar 2013
Posts: 160
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Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:01 pm
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Kill la Kill is like the anime equivalent to a Quentin Tarantino movie, and it has a lot of the same problems.
It feels to me like KlK is trying to have it's cake and eat it to. The messages of female sexual empowerment(blatantly lifted from Cutey Honey) and owning your fanservice seem to get lost in the barrage of cameltoe and rape imagery.
It's wacky, colorful and unapologetic to the point that it distracts from the issues it seems like its supposed to be about. All the clothing metaphors and sociopolitical themes get drowned out by the spectacle of it all.
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ChibiKangaroo
Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 2941
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Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:02 pm
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| ShatteredWorld wrote: |
| ChibiKangaroo wrote: | |
A B is a score I would give to a show that entertained me and kept me watching for the entire series, but was subpar in many other areas. I don't consider it as a particularly "good" score. I consider it as a passing score. Anything below B- I consider an undesirable score. To me, a B+ is a score for something that was very good but just missed in a few small areas and therefore didn't make the "A" range. A- is almost perfection. A is perfection. A+ is beyond perfection. Simple enough?
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lol that's a pretty weird grading system you've got then |
Please explain what is weird about it?
| walw6pK4Alo wrote: | | The difference between scoring on a scale of ten (or five) is that a 4/5 doesn't meant B-. 50%, removed from letter grades, means adequate, mediocre, average, middling, not really good or bad but just there; not failure. Even 40% doesn't mean totally abhorrent, but I'd use qualifiers like poor or below average. This is why reactions to scores are always so strong, and why scores for video games are always so skewed to to 8 and above, where damned be anything below 8/10. That's why I use a ten point scale, so everything can be adjusted to the middle and then scored across the spectrum in such a way that most things tend to get 6s and 7s, obviously because I tend to watch things I think I'll enjoy, unlike critics who have to watch everything. It also means very few 1s, because its rare to come across something so vile and hateful, and only a handful of 10s which tend to be button-pressing niche fillers.
Hell, even a 10 point scale doesn't always convey the right numerical assessment I'd feel for an anime or film, so I use the full 100. |
I think you make some good points here, but that's why I wasn't even focusing on the numbers. I was just going by the grade system. The other guy brought the numbers into it. There are only 5 grades in the grade system (assuming you don't use an E). Rarely does anything ever get an F or a D. To get in that range, a show would have to be truly awful on virtually every count. If something is in the C range, it is probably a watchable show, but probably the type of show you wouldn't finish. If something is in the B range, it is probably watchable, and something you would finish, but not necessarily at the top tier (unless it is a B+ show that just missed the mark). Anything in the A range is superior.
That makes sense to me. Maybe not others, but I don't think we are really here to debate scoring systems. I think we are here to debate whether this show is good or not and whether the review properly captured the essence of the show. My opinion is probably obvious on both fronts at this point. It's probably a lot more efficient to talk about the opinions on the show and grounds for those opinions, than nip pick how each person's grading system "ought to" work. (Not saying that this is what you are doing, but clearly was the direction of some of the other responses.)
Last edited by ChibiKangaroo on Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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v1cious
Joined: 31 Dec 2002
Posts: 6202
Location: Houston, TX
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Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:03 pm
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Oh man. If you thought this show was insane before, wait until you get to episode 8.
Easily my favorite show of the year so far. I was a little worried that Trigger might not pull this off, but so far they have exceeded my expectations.
Last edited by v1cious on Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Leebo
Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 660
Location: Somerville, MA
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Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:04 pm
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| ChibiKangaroo wrote: | | Please explain what is weird about it? |
Most people would agree that perfection in entertainment probably isn't attainable. And "beyond perfection" doesn't even make sense.
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ChibiKangaroo
Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 2941
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Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:10 pm
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| Leebo wrote: |
| ChibiKangaroo wrote: | | Please explain what is weird about it? |
Most people would agree that perfection in entertainment probably isn't attainable. And "beyond perfection" doesn't even make sense. |
Perfection in entertainment is attainable, it's just that it VERY rarely is attained. That is why it is "perfection." Do you disagree? Should it be easily obtained? I think not. The rareness of it goes with the definition of perfection.
Beyond perfection is not meant literally. It is the same way that a person can get higher than 100% on an exam or in a class. It means that you achieved perfection but you also did extra things that weren't even necessary and pushed you beyond that point. Your view of many things is extremely narrow. Expand your mind a little.
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Leebo
Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 660
Location: Somerville, MA
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Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:15 pm
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| ChibiKangaroo wrote: | | Perfection in entertainment is attainable, it's just that it VERY rarely is attained. That is why it is "perfection." Do you disagree? Should it be easily obtained? I think not. The rareness of it goes with the definition of perfection.
Beyond perfection is not meant literally. It is the same way that a person can get higher than 100% on an exam or in a class. It means that you achieved perfection but you also did extra things that weren't even necessary and pushed you beyond that point. Your view of many things is extremely narrow. Expand your mind a little. |
Sure, I suppose, if you want to look at it from a hypothetical point of view, perfection is "possible." But I would not argue that any piece of entertainment exists that couldn't be improved in any way.
So... If you want to put your second highest grade as something that I think would be almost impossible to justify, go ahead, but you are reducing the usefulness of the grading scale.
I wouldn't consider something I gave a 5/5 to perfect, in the sense that it couldn't possibly be better in any way, so there are actually things I'd be willing to give that score.
Then of course, the other problem with your scale is that it drops from "perfection" to "not good" in a super tight range.
Last edited by Leebo on Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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dtm42
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
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Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:18 pm
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So high-budget Kyoto Animation's fluid and detailed animation got an A-, but low-budget Trigger's stilted and messy animation gets an A. How does that work? I don't see how Kill la Kill can have such a high grade; does ANN animation ratings take into account choreography and storyboarding as well as animation quality? Even if they did . . .
Sure, Trigger's effort isn't eye-cancerous but it isn't anywhere near Kyoto Animation in terms of basic animation prowess. The best you can say about Trigger is that they made a small budget go a long way by using a lot of high-energy voice acting, music and storyboarding. Meanwhile Kyoto Animation's work on Beyond the Boundary is incredibly polished but the show is still dull. Kill la Kill, for all of its many faults, can at least boast that it isn't boring.
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ChibiKangaroo, what is the point of even having A+ if it can never be used? Same goes for D- and F-grades. Also, you state that B+ is something that "just missed" in a few areas, while A- is "almost perfection"; aren't they the same thing?
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ShatteredWorld
Joined: 05 May 2013
Posts: 265
Location: ATL
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Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:21 pm
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| ChibiKangaroo wrote: |
| ShatteredWorld wrote: |
| ChibiKangaroo wrote: | |
A B is a score I would give to a show that entertained me and kept me watching for the entire series, but was subpar in many other areas. I don't consider it as a particularly "good" score. I consider it as a passing score. Anything below B- I consider an undesirable score. To me, a B+ is a score for something that was very good but just missed in a few small areas and therefore didn't make the "A" range. A- is almost perfection. A is perfection. A+ is beyond perfection. Simple enough?
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lol that's a pretty weird grading system you've got then |
Please explain what is weird about it?
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It just seems like your rating system is so heavily built on a series being perfect and grades that would normally be somewhat acceptable (C+'s - B-'s) automatically get labeled as trash.
Personally, it's not one that I would use, but idk. Do you man
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goldensneer
Joined: 20 Nov 2013
Posts: 6
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Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:29 pm
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Ah, what breathtaking animation this series has!
I'm glad ANN can see it for the masterful, visual tour de force it is; not since Inferno Cop have we been allowed the privilege of witnessing such a frame rate that instills one with awe. Truly a marvelous deconstruction of the sakuga genre, as wonderfully shown all throughout the fourth episode. I'd expect nothing less from GAINAX, or the internet's most trusted anime news source!
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