Forum - View topicANNCast - Dork the Halls
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v1cious
 Posts: 6202 Location: Houston, TX |
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This might sound like a strange recommendation, but Hunter X Hunter (2011) has pretty much all of the stuff you guys are asking for. Even though it looks like a typical shounen anime, it's probably one of the best shows for characters right now. Unlike most shounen protagonists, Gon loses all the time, and has come to terms with his own weakness.
Also characters don't just run into battle, they constantly have to weigh the consequences/repercussions of even the smallest decisions. For instance, while preparing for an invasion one character suffers a severe nervous breakdown after realizing he may have to leave his friends to die. The current-arc villain is also one of the interesting characters I've seen animated in while. He knows he was born to rule, but doesn't even know his own name, or why he's even in this role. Right now I'd say this might the best character-driven series currently running. Very highly recommended. |
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CrowLia
 Posts: 5504 Location: Mexico |
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Nevermind, it's probably just my internet being a bitch. It took me four hours, but I've mostly gotten through all of it (and I seriously need to punch cute moe girls or something now) and I just wanted to make a quick comment on a couple of things
Early on you guys talked about T&B and how the second half felt inferior to the first one because the dark story of Mr. Legend seemed unnecessary and too dark (or something). On another T&B thread (I think a review) there was a similar concern brought up and someone replied with what I think is the best argument justifying the dark turnaround for Mr. Legend's character, as contrast to Kotetsu: spoiler[Mr. Legend, Kotetsu's hero, lost his powers and became an alcoholic and an abusive father and husband. At the end of the series, Kotetsu starts losing his own powers, but instead of devolving through that route, he becomes closer to his family and stays a hero at heart. This may also work as an interesting setup for a future confrontation with Lunatic, maybe even with Kaede in the picture] I don't know if it had been brought up, but I'd say Psycho-Pass is a really neat example of the kind of psychological approach to characters that Zac mentions, especially through the development of both Akane and Kogami. I haven't watched Breaking Bad so I wouldn't know if you could compare them, but it's definitely worth a look |
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Chocolate_Bar
Posts: 8 |
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Well it's obvious you dont watch many shounen |
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Sylpher3
Posts: 85 |
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When Zac was thinking of an anime resembling Breaking Bad, I was hoping he would mention Flowers of Evil and I’m so glad he did. It’s quite remarkable how two recent masterpieces in their respective mediums are built around the same main theme and use a realistic approach in portraying its characters. Although, I would say BB is more straightforward and grounded in reality while I thought Flowers of Evil as a whole is a metaphorical depiction of its themes.
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Parsifal24
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Sure there are trends I'd like to see disappear or be less prominent but as long as they make money. They'll continue to be made and it's all obviously a question of taste, and if what I like keeps getting made than I'm happy but also I don't want the first reaction when someone finds out I watch Anime to think it's all Legend of the Overfiend or Battle Vixens either and recoil in horror.
As far as the whole question about Lolicon I'm assuming we’re talking about Lolicon pornography and not a show that has Loli elements like Azumanga Daioh or Strawberry Marshmallow, that being said I like Kodomo no Jikan and Dance in The Vampire Bund just not for the obvious Loli elements. As far as why people get offended when you say that someone professing their unabashed love for Lolicon would make you uncomfortable to have them be around you’re children. It's varied some will argue that since it's a drawing of a child it's not a child and this is the same kind of argument groups the CBLDF have used to defend people from being charged with receiving or possessing Child Pornography when they have Lolicon. Other times it's that the other group feels like you’re arguing from some place of moral superiority and that you’re somehow better than them. I don't understand the logic of those who would take offense though as it's a perfectly rational reaction for someone to want to keep their children away from someone they think may harm them it's just good parenting. With that being said though oftentimes going after Lolicon can simply be used by some as cyber bullying tactic, in which people are “dog piled” on for liking a particular series, speaking from personal experience I can remember having to quit going to one forum because when Strike Witches was discussed in a thread once it was assumed the only reason I even liked the series was because I had some sort of unhealthy fixation on little girls and no one would hear otherwise. Mind you I'm not saying Zac is doing or has done any of this I'm more saying here's the why or how someone would look at this subject. As far as Anime and things that have soured my opinion on a series because of fans Sword Art Online is one of those series, I liked it until some fans I knew started treating it like it was sacrosanct and couldn’t rationally defend why they liked it only give in to apoplectic “impotent nerd rage” whne it was criticized. Attack on Titan and Death Note as well but I didn’t really like either series to begin with and with Death Note it's more that people wouldn’t shut up about how “smart” it was and with Attack on Titan or at least the few people locally I've talked to seem more interested in the gore and violence and not any of the character development. For me one of the best shows of 2013 was Arpeggio of Blue Steel while the character design and CGI maybe off putting it did a great job at creating it's own world and asking questions about human consciousness and creating an good original story (much like the original FMA Anime). When it ran out of source material. There’s really only one studio I follow and that's Studio Silver Link, from Watamote to Non Non Biyori, to Fate/kaleid liner Prisma Illya, they've been able to create an original house style with vastly different series. If there are any themes I enjoy I know The Power of Love and Love Redeems are rather trite and cliché but I'm a sucker for seeing an evil character redeemed by love or friendship as I think oftentimes the world is far too cynical and seeing something good happens in a fictional universe is a nice change of pace. In short I guess without getting too theological if Grace can be considered a theme that would be my favorite trope or theme in a series. |
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bleachj0j
 Posts: 923 |
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I so seconded this. I know Zac is reluctant to long running shonen but it is a very strong one. It has this amazing quality of making every episode count. The dialogue is fantastic and never useless. I would call it the best anime I've watched this year. And would strongly recommend checking it out. |
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鏡
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If someone expresses a sexual interest in animated little girls it doesn't follow that they will possess a sexual interest in real life little girls. lolicon stories are idealized, and the characters people drool over are written to cater to the fantasy: real life functions nothing like these stories, so not associating with someone in real life because they possess a particular fantasy doesn't make sense.
I also think Zac is seriously overestimating both the following and prevalence of these shows in recent years. It's a vocal, internet-based minority, and attacking it as some kind of moral argument is a witch hunt. |
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Angel M Cazares
 Posts: 5421 Location: Iscandar |
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Suit yourself, but I agree with Zac. If I had and I went to a convention with little kids, I would stay away from the lolicon fans. |
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鏡
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That's fine; my point was that saying someone is inclined to pedophilia because they sexualize underage anime girls is an irrational, unfair judgment of character, which Zac was implying until he switched the conversation to a judgment of character "relative to you". Also listening to it Brady explicitly expresses this idea at the end of the conversation: "This person is attracted to children". No, this person may be attracted to children or may not be. The fact that they are attracted to anime children is not adequate grounds to assert they are attracted to real life children, despite Hope claiming it's an "IE, ergo" thing. What it comes down to is that loli characters are symbols of a set of desirable traits which the plot, direction and characters of a show establish as desirable. Real life doesn't have those things, and there's no reason to assume that someone who fantasizes about the anime symbol of a loli character will assert those traits as being inherent to a child in real life. |
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Rahxephon91
 Posts: 1859 Location: Park Forest IL. |
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If you want to argue that you can't 100% say for certain that just because someone loves anime little girls they are pedos and that you are just generalizing. Then sure, you are technically right. But that's not really how the world works. You want to argue that it's unfair and it is, but if you tell someone that yeah I love to look at sexaulized little anime girls then I'm sorry people are going to start thinking some bad things about you. You can try and pull this moral righteous card all you want, but it just dosen't work like that in real life. Nor can you really blame someone for not making the distinction between oh you just like anime little girls and not real little girls. It's not a positive anyway you look at it and the mind will wonder and assume otherwise. You still are saying "oh I like ONE type of sexualized little girl". |
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Chagen46
 Posts: 4377 |
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>WON'T SOMONE THINK OF THE CHEEEEEELDREEEEN No one is gonna take you seriously if you keep pulling that stuff out. "Think of the children" is mocked for a reason. Also like how everyone is, AGAIN, ignoring the existence of shota. Cause we all know that some women don't schlick to little boys, amirite? |
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marcos torres toledo
Posts: 269 |
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I like anime 18 and watching uncensored movies but with demise of Blockbuster and Video Avenue on life support. It looks like back to 1930's to early 1960's on steroids even more censorship for if you can't afford a premium movie channel your out of luck. And the fore mentioned video rental chains had cut back on anime and the only surviving chain has drop it's anime section completely.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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"I would consciously keep my children away from you if I knew you were particularly vocal about how much pleasure you derived from cartoon depictions of children in graphic sexual situations" is not "THINK OF THE CHILDREN". You've missed the entire point of the discussion and are arguing against something no one has said and isn't a topic to begin with. |
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Galap
Moderator
 Posts: 2354 |
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I personally think the disturbing aspect isn't necessarily the sexualization of young-looking characters, but the sexualization of women (young-looking and not) who exhibit traits of childishness, supidity, dependence, and other forms of inefficacy. Most of the girls that the otaku fawn over are ineffective as people, and it's that inefficacy that's being found attractive.
I really don't understand attraction to people who suck, but it seems pretty common, and gets pandered to a lot. It's particularly bad because real women emulate those traits because they know it's an effective reproductive strategy for them. |
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FenixFiesta
Posts: 2581 |
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"what is sexy" is ambiguous to say the least and individual tastes can wildly differ. Men and Women are both capable of acting deceptively in the efforts for sexual relations depending on the individuals desire, so if a Man can act like he is a much more well off in life than he actually is and a woman is willing to act more vulnerable than she actually is there is no real "issue" when we know every adult is capable of being deceptive beforehand. |
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