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HitokiriShadow



Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 6251
PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 9:31 pm Reply with quote
There is certainly some overlap of moe and lolicon, but they are not the same thing. There is nothing inherently sexual or underage about moe.
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 7580
Location: Wales
PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:57 pm Reply with quote
The reason they are not Moe is that any given Moe is not actually a thing as such, but is just a way of looking at what is generally known as the Whole Sort of General Cuteness. The Whole Sort of General Cuteness doesn't actually exist either, but it is just the sum total of all the different ways there would be of looking at it if it did. You can slice the Whole Sort of General Cuteness any way you like and you will generally come up with something that someone will call home.
Please feel free to blither now.
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 15304
PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 11:26 pm Reply with quote
Ken Akamatsu's own words about moe. Link NSFW. Rolling Eyes
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 7580
Location: Wales
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 8:20 am Reply with quote
A SFW translation of Akamatsu's thoughts on moe from 2005:
http://archive.is/sGYBz
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Touma



Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2651
Location: Colorado, USA
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:31 am Reply with quote
Shiroi Hane wrote:
Can we create a rule going forward that no-one can use the word "moe" in a non-ironic fashion without also providing a public statement on what they, personally, actually mean when they use the word?

It would be really great if that could be made into a real forum rule.

Unfortunately I doubt that it will work as an informal agreement.
No matter what people mean by "moe" there are simple, ordinary English words that can be combined into a phrase that means the same thing, and is not ambiguous. The people who currently insist on using "moe" because they are not willing, or perhaps able, to use other words would most likely not follow the rule.
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Paiprince



Joined: 21 Dec 2013
Posts: 593
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:40 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Akazukin is not f**king moe! Stop retconning anime classics to fit some bs worldview. And CCS was never deliberately marketed as moe. It just became the co-opted by that crowd.

Those shows DO have elements that bring out the moe feeling. (meek, cute girl that makes the viewer cherish and protect that girl) Another example would be Candy Candy. Oh and everyone's favorite: Azumanga Daioh. It's chock full of it.

Quote:
That's because those viewers have taste.

Completely subjective. These are the same crowds who regard brainless shonen like Dragon Ball as the magnus opus of anime. Please don't think anime should be regarded as high art that should only come out with pretentious and "intellectually stimulating" content.

Quote:
Uh, no, but thanks for making that up.

Melfina, Aisha, Eureka and even Anemone say hi.

Quote:
Asian markets outside of Japan are torrenting and/or bootleging the product.

Yes, and every American and European are supporting the industry right? Don't be stupid.

Quote:
The difference is that the fujoshi stuff isn't embarrassing to look at in random still shots. Not to mention that I don't see that fanbase forcing most of the anime/manga industry to make solely fujoshi, because they don't buy anything else.

Huh? I don't know who you hang out with, but I'd get a shocking reaction from someone if I just pulled some random BL or yaoi pic and show it to some "normal" person to say the least. Also, I like how you clearly ignore the magnitude of vehement fervor the fujoshi crowd emit when it comes to their hawt guys. You obviously never been in or just tune out on the scene. You really need to pull your head out of your area.

Yeah, we get it you hate the concept of it, but if you're just gonna cover your ears and only listen to music in your head, do yourself a favor and keep it to yourself lest you come off as a venting monkey.
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Zalis116
Moderator


Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 6867
Location: Kazune City
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:54 am Reply with quote
GATSU wrote:
Shiroi:
Quote:
So, how many was that again?


Enough to bankrupt Geneon.
Yes, spectacular Geneon sales failures like Fighting Spirit, Heat Guy J, Cybuster, Demon Lord Dante, and Rumiko Takahashi Anthology certainly were awful otaku-pandering moeblob-fests that turned viewers away en masse.

GATSU wrote:
Shiroi Hane wrote:
Funny you should say that, considering Urotsukidoji sold more copies in the UK than most anime can ever hope to.


You didn't read my comment, did you? I said the likes of Urotsukidoji failed to turn people off of anime. Though it was often used as an excuse to attack anime.
So what we need to revive the Western industry is more tentacle rape and fewer girls playing guitars. Got it.

Echo_City wrote:
Besides, the actual article on which we are commenting explicitly acknowledges the existence of "cherubic, under-aged looking female character designs" and implicitly acknowledges their ubiquity in today's anime. Your quest to argue that such designs don't exist can't get very far until you at least get the text of this article rewritten. Just FYI.
"Underage" =/= "attractive to pedophiles", at least according to the real definition of pedophilia.
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Touma



Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2651
Location: Colorado, USA
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:00 am Reply with quote
Paiprince wrote:
Outlaw Star and Eureka Seven had "moeblobs" too.


Paiprince wrote:
Melfina, Aisha, Eureka and even Anemone say hi.

After reading your second post I agree with you.
I have not watched Outlaw Star yet, but Eureka and Anemone both bring out the moe in me. Especially Anemone near the end of the TV show.

But I do wish that you would not have used "moeblobs."
I was going to challenge you on that because I think that the word has very negative connotations. I usually see it used as a derogatory term for characters who supposedly have no purpose beyond their cuteness.
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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5088
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:01 am Reply with quote
"moeblob" is an inherently derogative term. It has no use other than to bash a character or fans of a character/series.

And once again, because people still find this [expletive] hard to understand, MOE IS SOMETHING FELT BY THE VIEWER. It is not a trait intrinsically held by a character. Just because I find a character moe doesn't mean you will, and vice versa.
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Cptn_Taylor



Joined: 08 Nov 2013
Posts: 925
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:09 am Reply with quote
Well at least with Urutsukidoji and Kanashimi no belladonna you know that you're looking at material designed for adults. Animated pornography where the characters are adults, and most importantly look like adults.
Moe (let's put in the 2 most relevant manifestations lolicon and shotacon) are pornographic but a pornography that is considered world wide as being illegal. Because it concerns animating child like characters in sex scenes.
The two things are not comparable at all.
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Cptn_Taylor



Joined: 08 Nov 2013
Posts: 925
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:15 am Reply with quote
Fencedude5609 wrote:
"moeblob" is an inherently derogative term. It has no use other than to bash a character or fans of a character/series.


I never used the term moeblob. But I still think people that like lolicon and shotacon should be bashed until the end of time.


Quote:

And once again, because people still find this [expletive] hard to understand, MOE IS SOMETHING FELT BY THE VIEWER. It is not a trait intrinsically held by a character. Just because I find a character moe doesn't mean you will, and vice versa.


And once again you're confusing the cause with the effect. The moe feeling is created not by you but by those that are producing/animating the series/characters. The moe feeling is CONSEQUENCE of how the characters are depicted. And drawing them in the puni plush style + sexualizing them induces in the viewer what you aptly called the moe feeling. Now some viewers are more receptive to this while others are not. But DO NOT CONFUSE cause and effect.
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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5088
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:15 am Reply with quote
Cptn_Taylor wrote:
Well at least with Urutsukidoji and Kanashimi no belladonna you know that you're looking at material designed for adults. Animated pornography where the characters are adults, and most importantly look like adults.
Moe (let's put in the 2 most relevant manifestations lolicon and shotacon) are pornographic but a pornography that is considered world wide as being illegal. Because it concerns animating child like characters in sex scenes.
The two things are not comparable at all.


Are you trolling?

I'm serious, are you just doing this to try and get a rise out of people? Or do you really believe this?
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Paiprince



Joined: 21 Dec 2013
Posts: 593
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:19 am Reply with quote
Cptn_Taylor wrote:

Moe (let's put in the 2 most relevant manifestations lolicon and shotacon) are pornographic but a pornography that is considered world wide as being illegal. Because it concerns animating child like characters in sex scenes.
The two things are not comparable at all.


...okay it's crystal clear you are unwilling to be educated on the real meaning of the term and insist on your own flawed perceptions opinions under the pretense to come off as the superior human being. Please stop.
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Cptn_Taylor



Joined: 08 Nov 2013
Posts: 925
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:22 am Reply with quote
Fencedude5609 wrote:


Are you trolling?

I'm serious, are you just doing this to try and get a rise out of people? Or do you really believe this?


No I'm not trolling. I'm writing my opinion on the subject.
Now tell me how Boku no pico is on the same level as Urutsukidoji or Kanashimi no belladonna or other hentai productions.
I'm waiting. Tell me how can you justify sex between animated children.
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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5088
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:24 am Reply with quote
Cptn_Taylor wrote:
Fencedude5609 wrote:


Are you trolling?

I'm serious, are you just doing this to try and get a rise out of people? Or do you really believe this?


No I'm not trolling. I'm writing my opinion on the subject.
Now tell me how Boku no pico is on the same level as Urutsukidoji or Kanashimi no belladonna or other hentai productions.
I'm waiting. Tell me how can you justify sex between animated children.


Huh? Who mentioned Boku no Pico? What does that have to do with anything?
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