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configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 3717
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:38 pm Reply with quote
^ That used to be true a few years ago. Now most things are close or more likely using a mixed resolution of assets. All of JC Staff's TV shows use 960p for example. I agree with 4k being mostly useless though. However, what is more useful, but less marketable is h.265 or hevec. This will also bring with it 10-bit colorspace for its higher profiles, something that has been optional and mostly ignored in mainstream h.264 implementations, finally bringing hardware decoders capable of 10-bit decoding.

WRT upscaled BDs from digital material, there is also the technique used for Toradora and the TGLL BDs from what I understand, where the studio goes back to the original pre-composited layers/assets, then scales each and re-renders or re-composite at higher resolution. Character art scales easily with good filtering; and different filtering can be used for different assets. Also, the backgrounds may already be natively in higher resolution.
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jsevakis
ANN Director of New Media


Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 1680
Location: Los Angeles, CA
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:34 pm Reply with quote
configspace wrote:
^ That used to be true a few years ago. Now most things are close or more likely using a mixed resolution of assets. All of JC Staff's TV shows use 960p for example. I agree with 4k being mostly useless though. However, what is more useful, but less marketable is h.265 or hevec. This will also bring with it 10-bit colorspace for its higher profiles, something that has been optional and mostly ignored in mainstream h.264 implementations, finally bringing hardware decoders capable of 10-bit decoding.


Agreed. There won't be much difference at the high end (Blu-ray is already pretty much as good as will be visible in most cases, since the bitrate there is already very high) but I expect this to really boost the quality of HD streaming video. All that banding will be (hopefully) a thing of the past!

Quote:
WRT upscaled BDs from digital material, there is also the technique used for Toradora and the TGLL BDs from what I understand, where the studio goes back to the original pre-composited layers/assets, then scales each and re-renders or re-composite at higher resolution. Character art scales easily with good filtering; and different filtering can be used for different assets. Also, the backgrounds may already be natively in higher resolution.


Yeah, and Lain as well. I don't really even consider those upscales so much as being partially re-animated, since the rendered output is actually new video. I haven't taken a look at the Toradora BDs, but the original TV version had fades and such applied at 29.97, so if the BDs are 24p then it's definitely recomposited/edited.
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Sailor Star Dust



Joined: 18 Aug 2010
Posts: 165
Location: US and A
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:54 pm Reply with quote
I wonder if relicensing NGE and Death/EoE Renewal DVDs (or hell, BD remaster if Gainax ever does such) would be a major issue for Funimation since they're licensing Khara's Eva New Movie Edition just fine. Granted, 2 different products and 2 different companies, but still.
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Zhou-BR



Joined: 28 Feb 2008
Posts: 1192
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:22 pm Reply with quote
About Evangelion, I've yet to see anything substantiating this rumor that Anno and Gainax are in bad terms nowadays.

And while Anno is widely (and rightfully) considered Evangelion's creator, he's never been properly listed as the "gensakusha" in the show or the movies' credits. Officially, it was created by Gainax, but Khara started sharing the creator credit with them ever since the Rebuild movies began production. Even on the manga covers, you can see Khara's name listed starting with volume 11. I don't think Anno (who founded Khara) could have worked that kind of copyright-sharing deal with Gainax if things weren't amicable between them, at least back then.
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 5978
Location: Cypress, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:48 pm Reply with quote
varmintx wrote:
mdo7 wrote:
The second part about HD was interesting to read and yeah I do agree with you on what you said.

Also, Justin speaking of HD, I would love to hear your thought (and your input) on Ultra-high definition (UHD) aka 4K/8K resolution. How do you think anime would look in 4K/8K resolution. Do you think anime in UHD would look any better, or is there problem/limitation for anime going beyond 1080p??
I believe it was during an ANNCast that he already stated that, in terms of anime, the extra resolution isn't going to make any difference.


I haven't listened to the ANNcast in a while (for the last few months to be exact), which ANNcast talked about UHD (and which part of the ANNcast talked about it, just that part so I can hear it)? I like to hear it myself.

configspace wrote:
^ That used to be true a few years ago. Now most things are close or more likely using a mixed resolution of assets. All of JC Staff's TV shows use 960p for example. I agree with 4k being mostly useless though. However, what is more useful, but less marketable is h.265 or hevec. This will also bring with it 10-bit colorspace for its higher profiles, something that has been optional and mostly ignored in mainstream h.264 implementations, finally bringing hardware decoders capable of 10-bit decoding.

WRT upscaled BDs from digital material, there is also the technique used for Toradora and the TGLL BDs from what I understand, where the studio goes back to the original pre-composited layers/assets, then scales each and re-renders or re-composite at higher resolution. Character art scales easily with good filtering; and different filtering can be used for different assets. Also, the backgrounds may already be natively in higher resolution.


jsevakis wrote:

Agreed. There won't be much difference at the high end (Blu-ray is already pretty much as good as will be visible in most cases, since the bitrate there is already very high) but I expect this to really boost the quality of HD streaming video. All that banding will be (hopefully) a thing of the past!

Yeah, and Lain as well. I don't really even consider those upscales so much as being partially re-animated, since the rendered output is actually new video. I haven't taken a look at the Toradora BDs, but the original TV version had fades and such applied at 29.97, so if the BDs are 24p then it's definitely recomposited/edited.



Thanks for your input, that's very interesting to hear. I guess 4K (or even 8K) wouldn't make anime any better.
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ultimatemegax



Joined: 26 Jan 2010
Posts: 412
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:56 pm Reply with quote
jsevakis wrote:
configspace wrote:
WRT upscaled BDs from digital material, there is also the technique used for Toradora and the TGLL BDs from what I understand, where the studio goes back to the original pre-composited layers/assets, then scales each and re-renders or re-composite at higher resolution. Character art scales easily with good filtering; and different filtering can be used for different assets. Also, the backgrounds may already be natively in higher resolution.


Yeah, and Lain as well. I don't really even consider those upscales so much as being partially re-animated, since the rendered output is actually new video. I haven't taken a look at the Toradora BDs, but the original TV version had fades and such applied at 29.97, so if the BDs are 24p then it's definitely recomposited/edited.
BDInfos for Toradora! have it at 24p. The promotional materials for it highlighted Sony PCL's new upscaling technology "Real Scaling for HD" (seriously the name for it) unlike Lain or Working or TTGL's "recompositing" that was mentioned.
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Mr. sickVisionz



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 2100
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:31 pm Reply with quote
It's already been mentioned but yeah, I doubt 4K would do anything for anime. Not because the resolution is a bust, but because practically no tv anime has even made the jump to 1080p production yet. There's no way they're equipped to go higher.
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varmintx



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1124
Location: Covington, KY
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:42 pm Reply with quote
mdo7 wrote:
varmintx wrote:
mdo7 wrote:
The second part about HD was interesting to read and yeah I do agree with you on what you said.

Also, Justin speaking of HD, I would love to hear your thought (and your input) on Ultra-high definition (UHD) aka 4K/8K resolution. How do you think anime would look in 4K/8K resolution. Do you think anime in UHD would look any better, or is there problem/limitation for anime going beyond 1080p??
I believe it was during an ANNCast that he already stated that, in terms of anime, the extra resolution isn't going to make any difference.
I haven't listened to the ANNcast in a while (for the last few months to be exact), which ANNcast talked about UHD (and which part of the ANNcast talked about it, just that part so I can hear it)? I like to hear it myself.
Sorry, I don't know. If no one else can help, at least you can eliminate a bunch of the more recent ones that don't have Justin in them.
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Stealth00



Joined: 18 Feb 2013
Posts: 65
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:06 pm Reply with quote
Oneeyedjacks wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Fate/Stay Night blu-ray was HD. I haven't seen it, so I'm not sure.


It's supposed to be(it was in Japan), but it's also an interlaced Sentai release and we all know they have issues with interlaced video for some reason.
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 8091
Location: Penguinopolis
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:43 pm Reply with quote
I'd love a proper EoE release.

A proper one, not that garbage Manga Entertainment release, that isn't even worth using as a coaster for your drinks.
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superdry



Joined: 07 Jan 2012
Posts: 1309
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:52 pm Reply with quote
Stealth00 wrote:
Oneeyedjacks wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Fate/Stay Night blu-ray was HD. I haven't seen it, so I'm not sure.


It's supposed to be(it was in Japan), but it's also an interlaced Sentai release and we all know they have issues with interlaced video for some reason.


I think it was interlaced due to the ED being produced at a different framerate than the main episodes. The JP boxset release was also authored in 1080i.
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Zhou-BR



Joined: 28 Feb 2008
Posts: 1192
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:12 pm Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
I'd love a proper EoE release.

A proper one, not that garbage Manga Entertainment release, that isn't even worth using as a coaster for your drinks.


The other day, my brother wanted to watch Death/Rebirth, so he popped the Manga DVD in my PS3. That disc's video never looked good, but I've got to say it looks especially atrocious on a high-definition screen. How people could think that kind of quality was acceptable for a commercial release of a high-profile anime film, I'll never know.
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ActionJacksin



Joined: 16 Dec 2012
Posts: 112
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:17 pm Reply with quote
varmintx wrote:
mdo7 wrote:
varmintx wrote:
mdo7 wrote:
The second part about HD was interesting to read and yeah I do agree with you on what you said.

Also, Justin speaking of HD, I would love to hear your thought (and your input) on Ultra-high definition (UHD) aka 4K/8K resolution. How do you think anime would look in 4K/8K resolution. Do you think anime in UHD would look any better, or is there problem/limitation for anime going beyond 1080p??
I believe it was during an ANNCast that he already stated that, in terms of anime, the extra resolution isn't going to make any difference.
I haven't listened to the ANNcast in a while (for the last few months to be exact), which ANNcast talked about UHD (and which part of the ANNcast talked about it, just that part so I can hear it)? I like to hear it myself.
Sorry, I don't know. If no one else can help, at least you can eliminate a bunch of the more recent ones that don't have Justin in them.


Here you go guys: animenewsnetwork.com/anncast/2013-10-25

4K talk starts around 62 minutes
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 9321
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:24 pm Reply with quote
Again, not that it would benefit anyone immediately unless you had proper content delivery (4k disc?) or a 4k TV, but you can at least get analog 35mm film high budget anime to look their possible best. For digital HD anime, that's a long ways off.
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Top Gun



Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 3782
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:42 pm Reply with quote
I was pretty much content to completely ignore Blu-ray upscales of shows I already own, or to only buy the DVD versions in the future, but I guess now I might need to do a bit more research. It's hard enough finding my way around the Mania forums as-is. Razz
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