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Hey, Answerman! [2006-09-22]

I think the reason the sub v. dub argument goes on, despite multi-track DVDs that let you have it either way, is that the vocal, rabid dub haters just can't seem to accept the existence of the dub track at all. Some of the extremists, I think, would prefer it if the U.S. distributors didn't include a dub track on the DVDs at all.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen comments in anime discussions that assume as a matter of course that all dubs are bad. It's as if the mere existence of the dub is a blasphemy against the Gods of Anime.

In that purist view, anyone who elects to watch the dub track isn't exercising free choice, they are committing heresy. And that's what keeps this argument going. (^_*)

luhead wrote:

Why do people who like dubs get so mad at those who don't? If you think dub haters are idiots, ignore them. All this constant whining from both sides of the argument is just getting annoying as hell.

It has something to do with the inherent problem that 99 percent of the people complaining about whatever English dub they come across don't speak Japanese on any level that would qualify them to judge the Japanese voices in any fashion.

So it's just a blind preference to whatever version you saw first rather than a legitimate love for a performance you can sincerely appreciate. It isn't really about understanding or appreciating the nuances and differences of the Japanese language, it's about claiming superiority because you saw it in Japanese first.

People who don't give dubs any sort of fair shake are deluding themselves into some bizarro superiority complex. A bad dub is a bad dub, but I'll be damned if the people who endlessly rip on any dub they come across know anything at all about performance or speak one whit of competent Japanese.

My personal view is that, despite it being a commercial product, anime is a viable art form. As such, it should stay as true as possible to the creator's vision. This statement applies to all art forms. If a movie was shot in French, watch it in French. If an opera was composed in Italian, listen to it in Italian. The desire for understanding necessitates translation in some form, but I believe it should intrude as little as possible on the viewing experience. This may be viewed as elitist by some, but it is only my own preference.

You are contradicting yourself. At one point you say that you don't need understanding of Japanese to appreciate the Japanese voices, yet in the ending statement you criticise the people who prefer dubs as they cannot "speak one whit of competent Japanese".

On the general issue of dubs and subs, I have always had one standpoint. There will always be split opinions on it, since the preference of one over the other is based on opinion - and an opinion by definition CANNOT be flawed - be it based on proper understanding of the language (Japanese) or lack of it. Because if you think that you have to know Japanese language in order to appreciate it, then you are just flattering yourself. This is especially true in the case of subs, in which the subtitles do a reasonably good of making the viewer understand what's going on despite not knowing the language.

You can't tell someone HOW to reach a judgement or base an opinion on something, because there is NO right way.

klamsd wrote:

You are contradicting yourself. At one point you say that you don't need understanding of Japanese to appreciate the Japanese voices, yet in the ending statement you criticise the people who prefer dubs as they cannot "speak one whit of competent Japanese". On the general issue of dubs and subs, I have always had one standpoint. There will always be split opinions on it, since the preference of one over the other is based on opinion - and an opinion by definition CANNOT be flawed - be it based on proper understanding of the language (Japanese) or lack of it. Because if you think that you have to know Japanese language in order to appreciate it, then you are just flattering yourself. This is especially true in the case of subs, in which the subtitles do a reasonably good of making the viewer understand what's going on despite not knowing the language. You can't tell someone HOW to reach a judgement or base an opinion on something, because there is NO right way.

Uh, I think you need to reread my statement. There is no contradiction there.

Also, the rest of this is the usual "there's no such thing as a wrong opinion" and "there's no such thing as an educated opinion", which is an extremely annoying thing that people do when they don't want to ever have to admit to being wrong.

Yes, people can have wrong opinions, they can have uneducated opinions, and the opinion of an expert on Japanese language and performance is, on this particular subject, more valid and more valuable than someone who doesn't know anything about it. Your logic allows people to spew whatever garbage they want and then claim they're right because it's their "opinion" and "opinions can never be wrong!". Yes, they can. We don't live in a world of total, all-encompassing relativity, not everything on the planet is 100 percent subjective.

I've found the only people who go on and on about how their opinions are never wrong are usually the people who are the least educated on a particular subject and have been proven wrong many times in a discussion, but refuse to admit it and hide behind the flawed logic that their opinions are never, ever wrong.

The Xenos wrote:

In Japan, they don't watch anime with subtitles. They watched it dubbed in their native language. Shouldn't Americans watch anime in the same manner the Japanese do?

This is a flawed argument. Unless one is fluent in Japanese, we cannot watch it in the same manner as the Japanese do with the same level of understanding. With one choice, we get the original voices, characterization, and direction, but are forced to take some attention away from the action to read. With the other, we can watch the English language which will be simillar but still constrained by lip flaps and difficult to translate words, phrases, and jokes. Either is a viable option, but neither is "in the same manner as the Japanese do."

As for the sub vs. dub debate, as someone already mentioned, why are we still having this debate? Now that we have bilingual dvds, we now have a choice. If you like dubs, you can watch it that way or if not, switch to sub. And if that's not good enough for you, learn Japanese!

I've found the only people who go on and on about how their opinions are never wrong are usually the people who are the least educated on a particular subject and have been proven wrong many times in a discussion, but refuse to admit it and hide behind the flawed logic that their opinions are never, ever wrong.

the only thing about the english dub i don't like is chad's voice personally i think its about an octive too low chad is more of a tenor voice they could have at least tried to find an actor to match the tone of the character also it would have been cool if the had a latino actor for chad seeing as how he was raised in mexico so he would undoubtedly have an accent

klamsd wrote:

You are contradicting yourself. At one point you say that you don't need understanding of Japanese to appreciate the Japanese voices, yet in the ending statement you criticise the people who prefer dubs as they cannot "speak one whit of competent Japanese". On the general issue of dubs and subs, I have always had one standpoint. There will always be split opinions on it, since the preference of one over the other is based on opinion - and an opinion by definition CANNOT be flawed - be it based on proper understanding of the language (Japanese) or lack of it. Because if you think that you have to know Japanese language in order to appreciate it, then you are just flattering yourself. This is especially true in the case of subs, in which the subtitles do a reasonably good of making the viewer understand what's going on despite not knowing the language. You can't tell someone HOW to reach a judgement or base an opinion on something, because there is NO right way.

Uh, I think you need to reread my statement. There is no contradiction there.

Also, the rest of this is the usual "there's no such thing as a wrong opinion" and "there's no such thing as an educated opinion", which is an extremely annoying thing that people do when they don't want to ever have to admit to being wrong.

Yes, people can have wrong opinions, they can have uneducated opinions, and the opinion of an expert on Japanese language and performance is, on this particular subject, more valid and more valuable than someone who doesn't know anything about it.

Your logic allows people to spew whatever garbage they want and then claim they're right because it's their "opinion" and "opinions can never be wrong!". Yes, they can. We don't live in a world of total, all-encompassing relativity, not everything on the planet is 100 percent subjective.

I've found the only people who go on and on about how their opinions are never wrong are usually the people who are the least educated on a particular subject and have been proven wrong many times in a discussion, but refuse to admit it and hide behind the flawed logic that their opinions are never, ever wrong.

No matter which you prefer or are familiar with, some performances need no language.

i think the best action sequence ever was the fight between naruto and sasuke and if i had to pick a certain scene i would say when naruto goes 1 tail pure shonen action!

Ok. Suppose I hate the Bleach dub and I like the subs. Tell me exactly why I am wrong, assuming that you disagree with me. Don't even bother, because whatever you say will be time wasted in futility. No matter how much you explain or try to presents your opinion as "educated", your opinion will just be that - a different take on the same subject.